Invisible Blade Feedback

[Eyeliner]

Maybe bleed itself could have more effects than ticking down a few hp. Like if there was a cumulative slow affect where you lost APR if you didn't stop to treat it.

[TroubledWaters]

Agree with OP 100%. It's an interesting class, but not a good one at all. Anything 25 rogue/5 IB could do, a fighter or any other class dip would do better.

• Arcane Bleed is worse than a breach wand as you stand there to cast it for a whole round, and I think it also flatfoots you.

• Crippling Strike has a low DC and worthless range, you are better off chasing a foe than ever trying to throw this as the only one that gets slowed down is you while you cast it for a full round.

• Eviscerate is worse than a regular sneak attack.

• The bleed damage itself is low.

Aside from the above mechanical deficiencies, are IBs the only class on the server that doesn't get class gear? Are there any others?

[Svrtr]

Agree with OP 100%. It's an interesting class, but not a good one at all. Anything 25 rogue/5 IB could do, a fighter or any other class dip would do better.

• Arcane Bleed is worse than a breach wand as you stand there to cast it for a whole round, and I think it also flatfoots you.

• Crippling Strike has a low DC and worthless range, you are better off chasing a foe than ever trying to throw this as the only one that gets slowed down is you while you cast it for a full round.

• Eviscerate is worse than a regular sneak attack.

• The bleed damage itself is low.

Aside from the above mechanical deficiencies, are IBs the only class on the server that doesn't get class gear? Are there any others?

Lore master, arcane archer, RDD, technically commoner, liberator, vigilante, weapon master, pale master

If we want to talk class specific gear aka class gear only they can get, then of the PrCs its only PDK that gets one to my knowledge and assassin which has a couple. Maybe dirge but it is a dirge/bard only armor and thus not truly dirge only.

Most PrCs don't get unique items in general.

[msterswrdsmn]

Honestly, I just don't see invisible blade working well on Arelith with its bleed-centric mechanics. No matter what you do.

You -can- include more gear/free feats, but it doesn't change the heart of the issue that the entire gimmick of invisible blade is stacking bleed damage. Leading to a slow drop in hp per round, then removing said bleed for short bursts of damage

Arelith very much does -not- favor this in either pve or pvp.

In my experience, in PVP you're either shooting for 1's and 20's because neither of you can reliably hit each other/pass a spell DC, or smashing someone down in 10 rounds or less in a race to see who can do the most damage in a short period of time. It is very, VERY rare you're going to have a melee battle where you can both stay alive -and- stack bleed -and- stay alive long enough for it to matter.

PVE is worse in this regard. Most enemies have a high HP and absurd saves as early as the single-digit level range. And they almost never, ever spawn alone. Staying alive in PVE requires you manage aggro appropriately, or, failing that, can smash things down before they overwhelm you. Neither of these really works well with a passive sort of approach that invisible blade takes. Its similar to crippling strike; its not bad in itself, but by the time you have stacked it to any meaningful amount, whatever you've been hitting should have been killed several rounds ago.

There are only a handful of builds I can see invisible blade "working" on per se, like a dex ye olde palemaster AC tanks, but thats less because is "good", and moreso that a heavy dex build without sneak attacks, divine might, or any other form of damage output won't have anything better to deal damage with. And thats not really a good thing, just...the only time it might be worth investing in IB ranks that I can think of because you literally have no other way of dealing extra damage.

If I were to make a suggestion to improve invisible blade, it would be to sideline the bleeding mechanic in favor of finding ways to empower small/tiny weapons and lightly armored approaches. Less "bleed you slowly" and more "knife fighter" sort of approach. Perhaps switch out bleeding for the ability to applying debuffs instead.

[Waldo52]

Honestly, I just don't see invisible blade working well on Arelith with its bleed-centric mechanics. No matter what you do.

You -can- include more gear/free feats, but it doesn't change the heart of the issue that the entire gimmick of invisible blade is stacking bleed damage. Leading to a slow drop in hp per round, then removing said bleed for short bursts of damage

Arelith very much does -not- favor this in either pve or pvp.

In my experience, in PVP you're either shooting for 1's and 20's because neither of you can reliably hit each other/pass a spell DC, or smashing someone down in 10 rounds or less in a race to see who can do the most damage in a short period of time. It is very, VERY rare you're going to have a melee battle where you can both stay alive -and- stack bleed -and- stay alive long enough for it to matter.

PVE is worse in this regard. Most enemies have a high HP and absurd saves as early as the single-digit level range. And they almost never, ever spawn alone. Staying alive in PVE requires you manage aggro appropriately, or, failing that, can smash things down before they overwhelm you. Neither of these really works well with a passive sort of approach that invisible blade takes. Its similar to crippling strike; its not bad in itself, but by the time you have stacked it to any meaningful amount, whatever you've been hitting should have been killed several rounds ago.

There are only a handful of builds I can see invisible blade "working" on per se, like a dex ye olde palemaster AC tanks, but thats less because is "good", and moreso that a heavy dex build without sneak attacks, divine might, or any other form of damage output won't have anything better to deal damage with. And thats not really a good thing, just...the only time it might be worth investing in IB ranks that I can think of because you literally have no other way of dealing extra damage.

If I were to make a suggestion to improve invisible blade, it would be to sideline the bleeding mechanic in favor of finding ways to empower small/tiny weapons and lightly armored approaches. Less "bleed you slowly" and more "knife fighter" sort of approach. Perhaps switch out bleeding for the ability to applying debuffs instead.

Solid post

[AstralUniverse]

Honestly, I just don't see invisible blade working well on Arelith with its bleed-centric mechanics. No matter what you do.

You -can- include more gear/free feats, but it doesn't change the heart of the issue that the entire gimmick of invisible blade is stacking bleed damage. Leading to a slow drop in hp per round, then removing said bleed for short bursts of damage

Arelith very much does -not- favor this in either pve or pvp.

In my experience, in PVP you're either shooting for 1's and 20's because neither of you can reliably hit each other/pass a spell DC, or smashing someone down in 10 rounds or less in a race to see who can do the most damage in a short period of time. It is very, VERY rare you're going to have a melee battle where you can both stay alive -and- stack bleed -and- stay alive long enough for it to matter.

PVE is worse in this regard. Most enemies have a high HP and absurd saves as early as the single-digit level range. And they almost never, ever spawn alone. Staying alive in PVE requires you manage aggro appropriately, or, failing that, can smash things down before they overwhelm you. Neither of these really works well with a passive sort of approach that invisible blade takes. Its similar to crippling strike; its not bad in itself, but by the time you have stacked it to any meaningful amount, whatever you've been hitting should have been killed several rounds ago.

There are only a handful of builds I can see invisible blade "working" on per se, like a dex ye olde palemaster AC tanks, but thats less because is "good", and moreso that a heavy dex build without sneak attacks, divine might, or any other form of damage output won't have anything better to deal damage with. And thats not really a good thing, just...the only time it might be worth investing in IB ranks that I can think of because you literally have no other way of dealing extra damage.

If I were to make a suggestion to improve invisible blade, it would be to sideline the bleeding mechanic in favor of finding ways to empower small/tiny weapons and lightly armored approaches. Less "bleed you slowly" and more "knife fighter" sort of approach. Perhaps switch out bleeding for the ability to applying debuffs instead.

I totally agree with this feedback.

IB feels to me (and pretty much any other builder I talked to about it iirc) is a skill dip with full bab that has Tumble, Discipline and access to Stealth. It also counts towards blinding speed cooldown reduction so the only build this is good on is 25 rogue 5 IB and even then it's might not be as good as 5 fighter but we like the perma blinding speed. It would be interesting for 26 swash 4 IB if the ib got the whole kit online by level 4th rather than 5th, allowing 4 IB builds to make sense, leaving the 5th level only as an optional late-game skill dip with no further progression for bleed etc.

[Tarkus the dog]

invis blade has some potential with certain builds, it just needs to be bumped up a bit. it doesnt take much to get it rolling. really just getting rid of the feat requirement and making the bleeds more viable to use would do a lot for the build without making it super strong ( which u rly wanna avoid with stuff like damage over time )