Arcane caster balance feedback- wizard cope 2 electric boogaloo

[Quizmar]

Irongron notice me sempai
We all know sorc/wiz is in a really bad place. Spellsword can do 90% of what sorc/wiz can, but is able to fight on par with fighter/LM. Right now, spellsword gets everything, all the utility, all the damage, and all of the love from devs
ways to buff sorc/wiz/invoker(most of this applies to cleric and Fvs too):
-FIX UNISAVE POWERCREEP
-if majority of char levels are sorc/wiz/invoker increase scaling on all spells that involve dice, most of them have other effects that are essentially useless
-fix nonsense spells that don't compare to their spell slot, especially disintegrate(pls) and cone of cold
-on certain high level save vs spells add a small debuff even if save succeeds
-add master transmogifist feat line/prc including such gems as: adding EX and SU abilities of assumed forms, being able to cast in assumed forms, access to special forms
-add new sorc/wiz/invoker only metamagic feats from 3.5
*energy subsitiution and energy admixture
https://dndtools.org/feats/complete-arc ... tion--880/
https://dndtools.org/feats/complete-arc ... ture--871/
*fortify spell
https://dndtools.org/feats/complete-arc ... ell--1186/
*eschew materials available as bonus feat
*explosive spell
https://dndtools.org/feats/complete-arc ... pell--998/
*sculpt spell (makes allies immune)
*widen spell
https://dndtools.org/feats/players-hand ... ell--3138/
-archmage prc maybe
-add a sorcerer specialty chestpiece
-add bonus language to sorcerer
-dimension door pretty please
(would have to only be able to teleport to a place you can currently walk as to not be dungeon-breaking and cheesy)
-limit access to wands and scrolls by non-casters
-nerf heal pot chugging
-esf concentration for free for all casters somewhere in the early epic levels
-include ways not based on saves, to lower saves of foes
-buff/include more meaningful wizard defensive options that are not available to SS
Ways to nerf spellsword
make it more like warpriest
-remove all access, except with rods, to 9th level spells, including the snowflake timestop
-remove summons entirely
-increase spell components needed for higher level casting
-remove familiar (or atleast no more pixie for them)
-hard cap on spells in spellbook
-remove arcane flux

I am leaving out warlock because I know very little about them, and understand certain things have recently been nerf'd
I understand that some of my suggestions are probably bad ideas, or would be broken if implemented without certain considerations of which I am unaware

Edit: improved facts

[Draco]

Elementalists already get a language based on their path, I'd love to see Dimension Door get added, and then add it to the Arcane Flux list so wizards can portal about the battlefield. To me, the biggest problem with arcane casters is that it's not uncommon for most players, casters or otherwise, to be walking around with 35+ saves from gear and spellcraft. This is coupled with the fact that arcanists are generally walking around in cloth and a good portion of those players have a +5 weapon on them too. I'd say give them a bonus to DC to make up for so many non-casting adventurers being so uncommonly familiar with spellcraft, maybe +1 DC across the board and an extra +1 for each spell focus, or an extra +2 with epic spell focus, whatever, just gimme more power!

[Diegovog]

Sorc love when?

[Anomandaris]

Here here! I've come to really believe  there's a fundamental discrepancy between the value of auto attack and spellcasters, in completing "actions" in a turn/round of combat (PvP or Pve). All the worse for Vancian casters. Balance is pretty atrocious with respect to Wizards & Sorc these days and I'm wondering why given it's pretty glaring.

Consider this for Spellcasters, especially Vancian:

• Interruption of a spellcast is very easy with current damage output numbers, there goes your spell slot and your 1/2 actions for that round. This interruption is as impactful in some senses as a knockdown and can be fight ending.
• Some spell attacks can be made from range others from touch attack range. Most if not all require touch attack or save, and have hard counters in terms of buffs that completely negate spell effect or close enough. Saves are out of control across the board.
• Maximum of 2 spells per round if hasted
• Potentially greater impact of given action due to "are of effect" if opponents are grouped up, but generally a high damage auto attack build will put out more damage per round reliably, even just considering single target damage from auto attacks.

Now consider the action economy and efficacy of auto attacks:

• Uninterruptible in the most fundamental sense. Must CC or kill to stop the AA (or not be there)
• Some auto attacks can be made from range though most/many will be melee range. That said there is no counter to incoming damage now that weapons have been buffed to pierce all damage resistance and +5 is standard, making even premonition useless garbage (except breach padding) which is crazy for a lvl 8 spell. AC and concealment are the only counters to damage output, as well as distance vs. melee, but insane AB numbers mostly negate this relative to average caster AC. TS pot spam makes this even worse.
• High number of attacks per round, high damage output per hit, results in obscene single target damage output to one round targets fairly effectively. Comparable approaches via "combo mages" have a higher execution threshold and even then not reliable.
• Auto attack builds now have "most" (call it somewhere between 40-70%) of the base utility of casters due to availability of wands and scrolls, missing out mostly on duration & and potency (due to lower CL) and access to a few things like epic spells and greater mage armor etc. (Spellsword even worse example of this).

Ideas to fix:

• Add similar effect to auto attack builds that casters experience via concentration. Reduce AB if taking damage at certain thresholds, or damage output for a short duration. Or reduce APR in same way.
• Buff concentration, provide ESF concentration at 23 or so sorc/wiz lvls.
• Adjust CL so that casters at least have the same CL as mundanes (mundanes running around at CL 30 when 27/3 casters can get stripped easier has been a joke for a long time)
• Dial back insane power creep on weapons affording everyone enhancement bonuses that piece all DR, except div specialist's premonition. Otherwise why bother even having the spells they're of the same utility as a paper shield.

[Quizmar]

Here here! I've come to really believe  there's a fundamental discrepancy between the value of auto attack and spellcasters, in completing "actions" in a turn/round of combat (PvP or Pve). All the worse for Vancian casters. Balance is pretty atrocious with respect to Wizards & Sorc these days and I'm wondering why given it's pretty glaring.

I didn't consider this angle of the dynamic. I think ESF concentration for free is a really good idea. Getting staggered in melee is something that would be really cool, but would cause a riot, and be gigantic headache for devs because all PVE stuff would have to be tweaked to accommodate this, that's something that would be awesome if it was there from the start, but I think for all intents would be impossible to implement in current year.

That's part of my beef with spell components, why should mages have to pay to cast, when a warrior can swing sword for free. So I think instead it would be better to have the spell components be a class-tax against SS, who as we all agree, has everything but doesn't have any kind of real drawback. Monsters? hack them with buffed sword. Dungeon specific debuff or mechanic? they have every spell known to Faerun. Chest is locked and trapped? Pixie time.

• Auto attack builds now have "most" (call it somewhere between 40-70%) of the base utility of casters due to availability of wands and scrolls, missing out mostly on duration & and potency (due to lower CL) and access to a few things like epic spells and greater mage armor etc. (Spellsword even worse example of this).

I would like to maybe see something like spell failure applied for wands for characters who aren't atleast 50% class level casters. Its silly how WMs and paladins can just buy their way into being 40-70% a mage, its a super power creep. It's one thing to have magical armor, sword, etc, but when you have a character who is supposed to be a man-at-arms casting 12 wands, 6 scrolls, and drinking 5 potions to fight seems corny to me. I think there's an arguement there for re-tuning UMD values as well

Some auto attacks can be made from range though most/many will be melee range. That said there is no counter to incoming damage now that weapons have been buffed to pierce all damage resistance and +5 is standard, making even premonition useless garbage (except breach padding) which is crazy for a lvl 8 spell. AC and concealment are the only counters to damage output, as well as distance vs. melee, but insane AB numbers mostly negate this relative to average caster AC. TS pot spam makes this even worse.

I agree with you here that wizard needs more defensive options, including dirty trick. The problem is without fixing the issues with SS it would just mean that SS gets even more options and still remains a better wizard than wizard. But the powercreep is real
I will amend the main post to include the powercreep issue

[Iceborn]

A massive problem for casters right now are DCs
Almost, what, 60% of all the spells in the game are DC spells. All of them useless in PvP because anybody geared for it just cannot fail the saves unless they roll a crit fail, and there's no real way to lower saves to increase your chances.

Sure, you can mindfog somebody for 2d6 (1/2 that on passed save) will save penalty. Average, 7, real number, 3 after the more realistic save.
That's not huge.
And you don't really know how much it affected somebody to try anyway.
Did it go the full -12?
Did it drop -1 point?
Who knows! Waste precious time figuring it all out while you eat the first 2 flurries of a round, read the combat log, determine if you sohuld spam spells.

Sorry. I'm going in a tangent.

Truth is there's no way to really fix pure casters without a massive overhaul of either the save system or all DC spells, or both.
I heard there was this supposed fix that reiterated failed DC spells should apply a save penalty, but if it is in action, it's too small and unnoticeable to make any impact. Wouldn't be a bad place to start.

And sorcerers need a full overhaul of their own. With bloodlines and all the bells and whistles.
Just as Divine Grace/Dark Blessing/div shield/div might needs to be capped to half pally level/full bg level so we can stop complaining about divine builds this divine build that when that specific line of feats and features are all what's breaking all the balance of cha-based classes.

[Draco]

Why don't we limit the bonus to saves vs spells from spellcraft to characters with the majority of their levels in a class that gets spellcraft? No more crossclassing spellcraft for +3-4 saves vs spells, what sense does it make for a 30 Fighter or a Paladin to have 20 Spellcraft? Then you can give Stoneskin and Premonition a boost, it's way too easy for a PC to get a +5, or even a +6 weapon now.

[Quizmar]

Why don't we limit the bonus to saves vs spells from spellcraft to characters with the majority of their levels in a class that gets spellcraft? No more crossclassing spellcraft for +3-4 saves vs spells, what sense does it make for a 30 Fighter or a Paladin to have 20 Spellcraft? Then you can give Stoneskin and Premonition a boost, it's way too easy for a PC to get a +5, or even a +6 weapon now.

I like this idea, it also seems silly to me that if theres a unisave gear limit, its gotta be like 7 or 8. Whereas you can only get +1 AC from enchantments, why not add a cap on unisaves? Also what happened to "high saves vs low saves"? Right now the high save is 38, and the low save is 35. My suggestion to add Fortify Spell would help with this, being able to cast a spell at a higher level to increase save DCs, even so, its hard to push a save DC into the 40s-50s, which if you got your save DC to 45 for a spell, thats only a 50% chance from someone with 35 in a save. Part of the problem is that its far easier to boost your saves, than DCs. It might also be good to add items which increase save DCs, just to keep up with the unisave boosting

[Irongron]

I'm definitely happy to see non-summon related suggestions and feedback for these classes, which naturally is also an ongoing discussion among the staff.

[Ruzuke]

I would also like to mention it would be nice to strip out the familiar from all the non-wizard and sorcerers. Aside from a very few people it is a pet rogue. and almost every chest in the game. My thoughts the benefits are twofold. It will either cause a lot of dips into classes or managing skill points, result in people needing more rogues in parties or wizards and sorceors who can bring that sort of utility to the table.

[Diegovog]

People have been very vocal against infinite cast, calling it too MMOish or easy to be overpowered.

So I don't see many solutions other than something like doubling all spellcasting of wizards and sorcerers if you ever want to see them doing any dungeons at all without relying on summons. And even then, they will be useless in the Deep Wells and other non-resting dungeons. I'd still make sure summons are at least much tankier so mages can do damage, while the summon take the beating and has to be healed/kept alive.

And if you double spellcasting per day, the gap between sorc and wizards decrease, making wizards even better over sorcs than they already are.

[Eyeliner]

One issue with making disabling spells more effective is how long they last. Like getting confused or held for 20 rounds may as well be death. Might be interesting if crowd control spells have a much better chance to land, but they only last a very short time when they do.

Or, maybe if a spell is resisted or a save is made and it has no effect there's a chance it will refund and the wizard can cast it again?

[Draco]

It's sort of a tricky topic, wizards are probably the most technical of classes to play, both in PvP and in RP. But in combat, they are the definition of glass canons, they can unleash incredible destructive power, and can turn people to stone, to sheep, but if someone manages to close the distance and catches you without a few choice wards, game over. If you're not good at playing a wizard, you think they're crap, and in the current meta, you'd be more right than not unfortunately, they are lacking IMHO. But then in contrast, when wizards are where they're supposed to be, and someone who knows what they're doing is playing a wizard, they appear to be way overpowered.

[BlankStare16]

I mentioned a possible fix in the other thread that I think might work pretty well to bring back online a lot of the currently-existing spells that simply can't be used right now:

Wizard overhaul can be as easy as adding a command that a specialist wizard can use when they have an Arcane Flux built up.

-overcast, the next time a specialist wizard casts a spell from their specialty school and has an arcane flux, instead of replenishing the spell slot, the spell is calculated for DC and SR purposes as if it were 9th level, and has a (Caster Level / 3) bonus to the DC, stacking with feats.

There is a solid 70% of the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list that functionally cannot be used because of broken saves. Even an intermittent way to boost DCs to bring those spells back into play is all wizards really need to restore the bulk of their versatility and fun.

To speak further to the general direction of wizard changes though (and this is coming from someone who plays wizards almost exclusively just for the sake of the fun RP, even though it is mechanically rough right now)--

I don't really care for infinicast or direct damage spells. If I see new spells added, I always have a surge of disappointment if I read the description and its just some form of face-damage. If I want to spam direct damage mindlessly and infinitely, I'd play a warlock or a hemomancer.

IMO wizards thematically are all about versatility and preparation. I personally love the feeling of being able to go over my spellbook and tailor it to fit some given challenge like a key to a lock. New spells and abilities that reward me for thinking ahead like an Intelligence-based caster are the wizard changes that excite me.

In PnP, wizards shine best as controllers/battlefield shapers. Lay down a Fog Cloud to blind the enemy archers. Throw up a Wall of Stone to funnel enemies to your barbarian. Dimension Door the rogue back to strike at the enemy casters. Fun, strategic stuff that unfortunately doesn't translate well to NWN (The AI just doesn't handle stuff like that well). But the spirit of those things can be explored.

One tool Arelith already has that could use further development is the -ritual command. If we added a few new rituals that could, say, mess with some mechanics in an area for a couple hours- but require time and preparation and specific components to cast the way the current rituals do, that's a fun way for wizards (and sorcerers) to contribute to PvP in a non-facesmash sort of way. An example might be a "Desecrate" ritual that causes the -pray command to have a large failure chance in the area. Suddenly if you're the enemy charging into an area that casters have pre-prepared against you, that's dangerous! As it should be.

That would be a PvP bump. But more PvE focused, things like the Symbol of Pain/Insanity/Death line of spells are another idea for leaning into the "preparation" theme. Now I can set up traps for the next encounter of monsters in the dungeon.

More spells that debuff or manipulate vulnerabilities also give wizards and sorcerers more things to do that both encourage team play and lean into that 'preparation' feeling. "Oh, I'm dungeoning with a crew of weapon masters and I see they all like slashing weapons? Better prepare my handy-dandy 'Curse of 20% Slashing Vulnerability'. They'll love me!"

Bunch of random thoughts that probably need a lot of refinement, but, tl;dr wizard and sorcerer updates should make them better at being wizard and sorcerers, not turning them into warlocks and hemomancers v2.

[Anomandaris]

-I love the idea of reducing fears around overtuning DC based effects for crowd control spells by reducing their duration to not be fight ending, but still remain useful. Save or die stuff is still going to be controversial regardless.

-I think it may also be time to re-examine spell lists and be a bit more stingy about what classes get access to what. I remember when cleric domain overhaul happened I was wondering why they needed a lot of the arcane goodies, it just made arcanists less interesting. This could help Wizard regain its original versatility and uniqueness. The sorc would not benefit as much from this due to spell selection but in a world where only a few spells are useful the sorc has more overall boom. Stop making everything good at everything because of "QoL," it's just power creep.

-It's been said repeatedly but nerf saves against spells. That can be done by some combination of reducing spellcraft save scalling ratios, nerfing divine save bonuses, lowering saves on repeated DC spell attacks, adding meaningful secondary spell effects on successful saves etc. Add more saveless debuffs like mind fog (e.g. Bigby's Interposing Hand could be actually useful if it was saveless and had a lower debuff of AB).

-Add more arcane rituals, that specifically rely on deep arcane class investment and spell foci. This is a cool mechanic in general that could add more value to wizard/sorc.

-The other levers involve reducing mundane classes access to the same bag of tricks arcane casters have, which trivializes what arcane casters do. That would no doubt upset a lot of people, and in the current meta a lot of mundanes are highly dependent on full warding. I'm not sure what the answer is here, but everyone being an epic mage for all intents and purposes is ridiculous.

-Reduce general power creep related to itemization; AC, Damage, enhancement bonuses and AB numbers are simply out of control. Someone smarter and more patient than me can do the math on peak str damage output, but it's well over several hundred per round. Cav charge is obscene, smite is obscene, crit levels and threat ranges are obscene. It's not engaging RP or gameplay to get True Strike KD'd and one rounded. This is a reliable way to kill a lot of characters due to martial power today.

-Get rid of balgrans iron horn cheese.

-With Dweomercrafting changes coming, it looks like damage resistance is potentially going to start getting out of control as well, adding a new set of problems to the power creep issue. In a "high magic setting" mages are generally weaker, in a lower magic setting, mages are stronger. We're a very high magic setting, with mages also nerfed. If a wizard was the only way to get a +5 weapon in a party, things would be very different.

-Stop making 8th and 9th circle spells available as commodity level resources like tomes that are gated behind low investments like 35 UMD. This circumvents the high lore requirements for them and does so in a more efficient manner re: action economy. Wands, rods (Greater Gems of Nullification, Rods of Anti Magic etc.) are even worse culprits given there are literally no requirements to use and with coin you can hoard them like a dragon. Increase/add skill requirements for using these, reduce frequency in loot matrix etc etc.

-Add real limiting "resource" requirements to current inficasters to reign in the absurdity that is warlock, hemo and elementalist. Seriously it's memeworthy what these builds do way beyond anything I've seen via summons. I encourage you to go watch a few of these move through dungeons if you haven't Irongron. I have a feeling you will not like what you see.

There have just been so many changes that have systematically eroded the niche of the Wizard and Arcanists in general. I don't think the answer is just buff wizards, because then we're just chasing our tail and continuing power creep. It's dialing back some of the poor balance decisions that have not been beneficial for the server. I also don't think all of these things should be implemented concurrently. These are just a list of problems, when compounded, make the class kind of suck by comparison.

[Naghast]

How about:

Spells that are saveless, and don't have a touch attack attached to them

BUT

still scale with feats, and most importantly, with caster's casting stat?

[-XXX-]

I'd like to see Sorc bloodlines that'd be implemented the same way Warlock pacts are:

• bonus feats don't risk breaking anything here (Sorc is a feat starved class).
• curated subsets of infinicast spells help casters perform outside their limited spellbook and give lot of cool options for character customization.

[Draco]

I'd like to see Sorc bloodlines that'd be implemented the same way Warlock pacts are:

• bonus feats don't risk breaking anything here (Sorc is a feat starved class).
• curated subsets of infinicast spells help casters perform outside their limited spellbook and give lot of cool options for character customization.

On that note, I'd love to see more synergy between the Sorcerer class and Dragon Disciple, maybe give Dragon Disciple an alternate path where they get +8 Charisma and +2 Strength instead, and give them arcane caster levels, maybe scale the breath weapon up every 2 sorcerer levels.

I'd also like to see more synergy between Shadowmage and Shadowdancer, maybe have some SD abilities/feats that transfer over, 1 Wizard counting as 3 Shadowdancer, excluding feats like Hide in Plain Sight of course, because we can't have nice things without people abusing them. It seems like there's more synergy between Shaman and Ranger/Monk/Barbarian than there is between Shadowmage and Shadowdancer or Sorcerer and Dragon Disciple, that doesn't seem right to me. Those are also base classes, Shadowdancer and Dragon Disciple are prestige classes, with that in mind I feel like they should get more attention for class synergy.

Another thing I wanted to mention since we're on the topic of my beloved, squishy arcane casters, is the range of spells. I don't mean the variety, I mean specifically the distance your spell can travel and how many spells have a medium to short range vs a long range. A Fireball does 15d6 fire damage and can hit a group 40 meters away, a Lightning Bolt does 15d6 electric damage and can hit one target 20 meters away, potentially 1 or 2 around them for half, Scintillating Sphere, same damage, same AoE effect, 20 meter range. If we're talking about the viability of arcane casters we should also consider increasing the range of certain spells. One reason Isaacs Greater Missile Storm is so good is that it has a long range on it. If people could only launch IGMS 8 meters away it wouldn't be nearly as handy.

[Eters]

I feel like the direction Arelith is taking is infinicasting, we can all try to look away from the reality but it's exactly what happening. The standard x times/rest systems are slowly being replaced by cooldowns and such reflects on all the new concepts (divine smite CD, pray many times a day with the new monk, etc...) And for such, the PvE and PvP balance is being measured by that metric, which is why the current vancian casters just feel underwhelming compared to the infinicasters (Warlocks, Hemomancers, Elementarists and Defilers which get infinicasting on some spells). The high saves exist to offset the infinicasters which can just "reroll" by recasting the spell again, the high HP exists so that the infinicasters fight for longer thus making the combat far more difficult.

In summary, you can't balance something for both infinicasters and vancian casters, these two systems fundamentally clash with each other and affect the entire mechanic of gameplay, and this problem is something the devs ran into many years ago with the old true flame / warlock / weave masters / favored souls (old system) to the point it was abolished because it was simply impossible to balance the systems in a logical and rational way while there are infinicasters. Yet now they are making a return, which means that we may as well go ahead and make everyone an infinicaster / fatigue system / cooldowns on spells / or something like that before we can start even considering how to fine tune the different classes.

So long as a vision isn't clear on what path magic gameplay is going to take on this server, a "solution" will be impossible to find because the infinicasters and the vancian draw from the same pool of spells. Buff a spell and you undirectly turn the infinicaster that can cast said buffed spell into a broken powerhouse. Reduce the spell's effectiveness to offset the infinicasting potential and you end up with a plethora of spells which look really nice on paper but are never used in reality because it's simply useless for someone that can cast it once or twice per day.

A solution would be to separate entirely the nature of spells the infinicasters use and the regular casters use, and have two completely different spelltypes, or adjust spell by spell individually, creating an "infinicast friendly" version to be incorporated to the infinicasters while massively increasing the effectiveness of such spells for vancian casters since they can only cast them a few times a day. But that is so much work and I can't even begin to think about the coding aspect of it.

[Anomandaris]

I feel like the direction Arelith is taking is infinicasting, we can all try to look away from the reality but it's exactly what happening. The standard x times/rest systems are slowly being replaced by cooldowns and such reflects on all the new concepts (divine smite CD, pray many times a day with the new monk, etc...) ...

A very astute observation about the dynamic and implications re: balance. It makes me wonder if this is a "strategic design decision" from top down, or a byproduct of individual devs tackling individual projects, resulting in this outcome organically. I could be wrong but I struggle to imagine it's the former, given statements over the years about inficasting and other "similar" areas regarding the server (summons nerfs most recently).

This means one of two things.

1) There is a disconnect between the strategic vision for the server and its implementation (which to be fair exists in every group of more than 2 people working on any project).

OR

2) There is alignment between said vision and implementation, driving a purposeful change from top to bottom to fundamentally overhaul the mechanics of the system in the manner you described (in which case it'd be nice to know to set expectations).

We can naturally only speculate, Irongron and the devs are the only ones that could really clarify this. I admit I'm curious as I'm sure others are. Personally I'm hoping it's #1, because I do enjoy the mechanics and setting, even though I don't think we should be fanatically adhering to it. I think making sweeping changing to systems can often result in more harm than good, though I do enjoy innovation and newness, it helps breathe life into the server; it's a delicate balance. We are a mix of homebrew and 3.5, but let's not take creative license to the point Disney and Amazon do with really great source material....

P.S. There is an option 3, which is "there is no clearly stated strategic vision or design parameters regarding these sorts of things," which would also explain the aforementioned issue.

[-XXX-]

Another idea would be making scrolls respect spellcaster's CL and spell foci if the scrolled spell matches their spellbook.

• team has full control over which spells n be scrolled (GMA)
• can play around with additional component materials = fun stuff to figure out that also fosters RP
• more useful spells per rest
• gold sink for spellcasters

Furthermore: give scribe scroll, brew potion and craft wand to all spellcasters for free.
Reasoning: the server economy needs casters with these feats to produce magiical consumables and mundanes need a healthy supply of those to function.
At the same time these feats pretty much have no place in builds optimized for PvP, so there's a heavy incentive not to take them.

[Eters]

From fiddling with spellbound wands I found that there is little reason to limit their charges, make them infinicast. You usually only equip one and all the abusable spells are forbidden. Due to the high HP pool of mobs it takes 5-6 casts of those low level spells to make a difference, and it is still massively outperformed by warlocks and infinicasters. Furthermore you are not using spellbound wands for PvP most of the time.

A practical test is that using ice dagger in RDI, 30 charges lasted me about 2 fights before running out, that is with giants having vulnerability to cold damage. While using it only when my summons need help (which is all the time now), having 2 rods on me allowed me to reach the area with the first miniboss before running out of both spellslots and wand charges. For reference a warlock still usually has his entire spellbook unused at that level.

Another idea is to remove cooldown on signature spells for specialists, and have gsf bonus spells "upgrade" at epic levels.

And please, please remove touch attack requirements for damaging spells. The saves already eat half the damage anyways.

Tldr, the server is aimed at blasting, high HP, high saves to compensate for the high damage bursts from strong melee classes and high AB to counter the average AC of melee characters which sits in the high 50's / 60's. The only way to be viable to party play or solo play outside of being a glorified haste dispenser is to use your tools more often. And to do that you need to have access to those tools.

Warlock, Hemomancers and Elementarists have constant usage of their tools, making them engaging, fun and excellent for both solo play and party play. Meanwhile other vancian casters have to "limit" themselves while waiting for a "boss fight" which ends up being immune to most effects and CC anyways.

[silverpheonix]

I don't understand why warlocks have inficasting to begin with.

[Mamma ama Warlock]

Considering infirests are apparently a thing with the new monk: allowing meditation to be used anywhere and without risks of ambush (a far fetch, perhaps with some restrictions) will increase the presence of wizards (sorcerers and caster clerics) in a party. They have tools they can use to be effective. Allowing them to not be stingy with resources is a valid way to fix this. Besides, all you generally want UMD for is already on the wizard spell book. Enchanters have Dirgesinger to dip into for better skills + umd.

Alleviate the pressure of very limited spell slots, step 1. Replace oppressive save or suck effects with reasonable debuffs, step 2. Re-adjust banned schools for specialist for something that doesn't make you hate yourself for choosing it, step 3. Allow specialist wizards to get more out of their signature school, step 4. There are a lot of ways that can be taken, but two very obvious issues are steps 1 and 2. Unless they are overcome, it'll be back to square one in the end.

While at it: hemomancer, elementalist and RDD should be baked into the sorcerer class, each giving certain boons to the base chassis. Such as:

1. Hemomancer gives access to blood arcana and inficast blood arcana spells using focus. Significantly increase focus cost. Allow spells to be cast without focus, with spell slots. Only blood arcana is inficast, no inficast igms shenanigans. Focus recovers slowly OR by draining living targets. Allow blood arcana spells to be more niche and effective, not a bunch of save or suck nonsense that won't be very effective anyway. Some slows, some resistance shreds, some minor maluses to combat stats. Nice to have, not overpowering. Like dissecting the curse song and spreading it across multiple spells.
2. Elementalist: same thing with Hemomancer - limited inficasting of thematic spells via focus, a new thematic way to recharge it like hemos have. Tailor the spell list to get to an appropriate power level. Avatar: the Last Airbender fans REJOICE.
3. RDD: draconic sorcery, just like in 5e.
4. Sorry to all wild mage fans, but you can also bake wild mage into sorcerer and derive their inficast from surges. Divide surges into 4 categories: minor boons & detriments, average boons & detriments, greater boons & detriments, deadly boons & detriments. Make every spell cast add a point to the "focus" bar cast. Give them an instant action which will make the next spell cast surge, drawing from the list of effects specific to the level described above. If "focus" bar is filled without manual activation, random deadly detriment happens. Make casting spells charge focus according to the spell level + a small random value. Cast a few too many, and you're toast. Retain -fate and other abilities, in a form of class features like on hemo and elementalist.
5. And while I'm still procrastinating: bake shadow mage into sorcerer as well with thematic shadow spells being inficast with focus, with a unique focus manipulation mechanic and normal access to other spells (except for evocation, cuz shadow weave).

These do not need to be uber-powerful pvp machines of destruction. They just need to deliver a theme, a fantasy, contribute in a group so that people want those classes to tag along, and be reasonably comfortable to play. Also, please, no divine synergies.

[Android Sufferer]

I was going to save this until the suggestion box was open, but since we're doing it anyway!

Please note that the suggestions with numbers haven't been fleshed out because that will take more than the lunch break I've put into this, they're there for better visualisation and to highlight how these changes would be highly modifiable - as it's a very large balance change it will likely need to be tweaked several times.

• Problem 1: Inflated saving throws are frustrating for a caster, but entirely necessary to prevent combat being over in one spell due to the binary outcome with save vs death / effective death (hold, stun etc.)

• Desired outcome: Greater reliability of save vs death/effective death spells with less binary outcomes.

Part 1: Removing non-damage mitigation immunities.

• Remove all immunities that aren't class / race / item based.

• Spells that grant immunities give +saves vs appropriate type, that additionally scale with CL.

• E.G. Death Ward > +2 Saves vs death, +1 / 10 CL.

Note that where appropriate spells will still remove effects. For example, freedom of movement will still remove movement associated penalties but it wont provide immunity after that.

Part 2: Removing the binary nature of save vs effect.

• Scale the negative effect based on the amount someone fails by.

Examples:

Death

• Failure: Magical Damage % of HP Remaining + Failed By Damage Die

• Failed save by 1-5 points 25% HP + (1-5)d6

• Failed save by 6-10 points 70% HP + (6-10)d6

• Failed save by 10-15 points 80% HP + (10-15)d6

• Failed save by 15-20 points Death

Hold/Paralyze

• Failure: Movement Reduction > Immobilise > Hold

• Failed save by 1-5 points 25% Movement Speed Reduction

• Failed save by 6-10 points Immobilisation

• Failed save by 10-15 points 1 Round Paralyze > Immobilisation

• Failed save by 15-20 points Paralyze

• Problem 2: It's rare someone will fail a save

• Desired Outcome: More consistency in spells having some sort of effect rather than doing nothing.

There's a lot of variance in saves and DC's, but as a baseline:

Average saves High: 12 (Base) + 5 (Epic) + 6 (Stat Buff) + 3-7 (33+2 int - Spellcraft Natural) + ₆ (Uni Save Items) + ₃ (Spellcraft items) = 35-39
Average saves Low: 6 (Base) + 5 (Epic) + 6 (Stat Buff) + 3-7 (33+2 int - Spellcraft Natural) + ₆ (Uni Save Items) + ₃ (Spellcraft Items) = 29-33

DC 9th: 10 (Base) + 9 (Circle) + 14 (Stat) + 6 (Focus) = 39

This is the area that needs the greatest work, so I'm not going to attempt it as a suggestion.

However, what you'd want to balance around is:
"we want people to fail by <6 (First bracket) on a high save X% of the time"
Given the rough differential of 6, this would then mean:
"we want people to fail in the next bracket, on a low save X% of the time"

The biggest problem to balancing is how variable saves actually are, because you have big outliers. Reducing that variability would go a long way. Examples:

• Remove spellcraft giving saves entirely. (Or doing 1/10)

• Divine classes Cap +cha to 1/class level, or even class level/2.

• Problem 3: Damage vs save spells are rarely worth casting over safe equivalents. AKA Why cast chain lightning over IGMS?

• Desired outcome: Spells that damage with a save are desireable in some cases and operate a healthy risk/reward against the no-risk baseline.

Part 1:

Saving has a huge impact on spell damage, probably more than it should.

A lot of these spells are also subject to evasion, which in of itself is a very binary way of dealing with things.

This change would reduce the variability in damage of these spells and never make it a complete mistake to use one. You'll always contribute.

• Save without evasion > 3/4 Damage (Not 1/2)

• Save with evasion > 1/2 damage (Not 0)

• Fail with evasion > Full Damage

• Save with Improved evasion > 1/2 damage (Not 0)

• Fail with Improved Evasion > 3/4 damage (Not 1/2)

Part 2:

Even at their peak and on a failed save, damage with save spells usually don't offer any actual damage advantage over a non-save spell.

We can scale the damage die a spell uses with epic levels, if the spell has a save vs damage component.

E.G. If we scaled damage die by 1/2 epic levels.

Chain lightning 20d6, would now be 23d6 (For a 27 CL).
Maximised 138 (vs 120 for an IGMS) if someone fails.
If someone saves without evasion > 104 damage.
Save with evasion/imp evasion > 69 (nice)

This doesn't factor 5/- resistances, defesnsive spells (protection from elements etc.), immunities, vulnerabilties... but you get the idea!

• Problem 4: I'm a wizard, or a sorceror, not an infini caster. It's nice but I'll get tired before clearing a dungeon.

• Desired Outcome: Retain class identity even within PvE

Improve arcane flux to be more reliable (Higher % chance base, higher % scaling)
Add an equivalent to sorcerors based on a new 'bloodline' they choose.

The differential would be while wizards can cast anything from their flux, a sorceror would only be able to use certain spells associated with their bloodline. (E.G. someone with a fire-type bloodline would be able to shoot off a free flame arrow, fireball, delayed blast fireball etc. but not an iceberg).

• Problem 5: Summons

• Balance aside, I'm of the opinion that summons being as strong as they are (and still are, here's looking at you conduit)
  removes class identity from the things that utilise them.

• Desired Outcome: Summons aren't faceroll and offer unique, distinct gameplay.

• Desired Outcome 2: Casters can solo

There's lots of ways of doing it. I'd personally change summons to be broadly associated with distinct types.

Defensive: Long duration, tanky (e.g. Air good AC, Earth regen + good DR, Ghost great conceal, Zombie-raises a new zombie fresh and explodes itself when something it has hit dies) with very little offensive capability. Having a distinct weakness for these (E.G air not having good hp so finding mages difficult) would add inherent threat in higher level areas with mixed enemy types.

With auto-guard, this gives mages the ability to solo but also have to use their kit - unless they want to do things super slow.

Offensive: Short, short duration - we're talking a few rounds. Good offensive capabilities.

Utility: Mixed duration dependant on what they do. (E.G. water elemental has a nice regen aura and is long duration, a planar-medic hits you with some nice cure wounds and healing circles but has a low duration.

Summon focuses would no longer increase tiers or stats - +Tier was always problematic.
Instead they allow you to summon above the base cap of 1.

E.G. An epic summoner could spam Summon IX to field 4 short duration offensive fire elementals. Or they could have a long duration defensive summon up, while using short duration offensive summons as, effectively, offensive spell casts.