Spellswords: is this balance?

[Dreams]

Spellswords needed to lose some AC. Why did they gain damage? Marauder is losing more AC as a low AC path, gaining more damage as a higher damage path. Why aren’t the nerfs more focused on the actual problem: Abjurant Champion?

Also, why does Abjurant Champion still get a free epic spell focus? It costs mages an epic feat, costs warlocks an epic feat just to get the little bonus Ward feature that comes with it.

[helitron]

Also, the loss in AC could be partially mitigated by taking 3 levels in a dodge class. I suggest moving the free APR from 27 to 28 to have some counter against that.

[Chloe123]

From the team:
SPELLSWORD:
Weave Affinity: Bonuses now depend on the Spellsword's primary melee ability:
Strength: Now grants +1 AB and weapon damage every 7 Spellsword levels - no AC bonus.
Dexterity: Unchanged. Grants +1AB and AC every 7 Spellsword levels.
These bonuses still cannot exceed the Spellsword's hard Intelligence modifier.

Isn't this what you asking for?

[Svrtr]

Also, the loss in AC could be partially mitigated by taking 3 levels in a dodge class. I suggest moving the free APR from 27 to 28 to have some counter against that.

I'll keep my thoughts about the actual changes to myself, this is not to say I agree nor disagree but I genuinely just want to stay out of talks of it being good or bad for now, so please don't assume which side of this I'm on to anyone reading

With that said, technically it's only a 2 ac gain due to the loss of AC from imbue armor, and you then likewise lose 1 an on weave ab and 1 ab on imbue armor so down 2 ab and 1 ac either way

[Kalopsia]

Also, the loss in AC could be partially mitigated by taking 3 levels in a dodge class. I suggest moving the free APR from 27 to 28 to have some counter against that.

For the record, I have no plans to move the bonus APR to 28. It was a change introduced to promote dips, after all. With the new update, 3 levels in a tumble class can convert the loss of 4 AC on a STR spellsword into -2AC and -2AB (with improved utility thanks to more class skills like UMD). Players that preferred the class for its defensive options can adjust their builds accordingly.

[Iceborn]

I can't believe svrtr is advocating for spellswords supremacy

Seriously speaking, Spellswords are egregiously overtuned and I just noticed that the extra attack was on 27.
I thought it was on 28 since that'd make sense to pureclass them sensibly, but on 27 this lets you get away with taking a wonderful 3 level dip to no consequence. Since by 26 they also get +3 dispel resistance, that also means that they can hit the dispel cap at no cost.
~_Edit: I wrote this before reading Kalopsia's comment. More thoughts on the *

This is specially annoying to me because bards - as a the direct arcane combat-caster equivalent of spellswords - only get +1 APR /if/ they sing a specific solo-buff song, with a 28 level requirement.

It wouldn't be wrong to exacerbate the sacrifices spellswords have to make - beyond obviously moving the extra APR at 28 (or better yet, not giving them an extra APR at all) - by means of having to actually sacrifice more spell versatility, for example, by having spellswords sacrifice 3 whole schools. You could even argue more, since most spellswords have not a lot of use for evocation/necromancy/enchantment/conjuration, and it wouldn't hit them nearly as hard as losing transmutation/illusion/divination/abjuration.

*But why though?
Other classes have to sacrifice to dip. Bards and clerics, warpriests specially - Spellswords pretty much have to give nothing away right now and they get all their cookies, and those are some pretty strong and sugar-heavy cookies they are getting, and I say this as a player that loves spellswords as a class and enjoyed thoroughly playing one when they were first introduced.

Either this becomes the standard or they get hit with the nerf bat, and they need a nerf because currently casters are at the weakest they've ever been, with martial and gish builds breezing through content and PvP that many casters can't respectively solo, or do so much as actually win.

[Jencent]

This

They also have flux, a lot of spells, shit tons of damage and AC. ITs really hard to dispell SS (Bards will sacrifice a lot of CL to take some other stuff to fill gaps in builds).

• They also have -0/-5/-10/-0/-0 AB attacks in the round.
• A lot of free feats for class.
• HE CAN CAST 9lvl spell, those spells just fart shafled into 8th lvl of spells.
• They have own unique EMA. But again... ITS NOT A EPIC SPELL, JUST ANOTHER VERSION OF 1lvl SPELL!
• HAve few paths which gives you EVEN more power. Yeah. 1 of 3 are trashy, but still 2 really GOOD paths which makes SS one of the strongest and overtuned class in the game.

[Lord Blacktooth]

I can't believe svrtr is advocating for spellswords supremacy

Seriously speaking, Spellswords are egregiously overtuned and I just noticed that the extra attack was on 27.
I thought it was on 28 since that'd make sense to pureclass them sensibly, but on 27 this lets you get away with taking a wonderful 3 level dip to no consequence. Since by 26 they also get +3 dispel resistance, that also means that they can hit the dispel cap at no cost.
~_Edit: I wrote this before reading Kalopsia's comment. More thoughts on the *

This is specially annoying to me because bards - as a the direct arcane combat-caster equivalent of spellswords - only get +1 APR /if/ they sing a specific solo-buff song, with a 28 level requirement.

It wouldn't be wrong to exacerbate the sacrifices spellswords have to make - beyond obviously moving the extra APR at 28 (or better yet, not giving them an extra APR at all) - by means of having to actually sacrifice more spell versatility, for example, by having spellswords sacrifice 3 whole schools. You could even argue more, since most spellswords have not a lot of use for evocation/necromancy/enchantment/conjuration, and it wouldn't hit them nearly as hard as losing transmutation/illusion/divination/abjuration.

*But why though?
Other classes have to sacrifice to dip. Bards and clerics, warpriests specially - Spellswords pretty much have to give nothing away right now and they get all their cookies, and those are some pretty strong and sugar-heavy cookies they are getting, and I say this as a player that loves spellswords as a class and enjoyed thoroughly playing one when they were first introduced.

Either this becomes the standard or they get hit with the nerf bat, and they need a nerf because currently casters are at the weakest they've ever been, with martial and gish builds breezing through content and PvP that many casters can't respectively solo, or do so much as actually win.

+1 on this.
There curently waaaaay overpowerd.
I play one myself as a Main, Dex Bladesinger with 63AC 51AB and a Rapier.
And that is on all the time without counting short duration bufs like Warcry and so on or IE.

[Jencent]

+1 on this.
There curently waaaaay overpowerd.
I play one myself as a Main, Dex Bladesinger with 63AC 51AB and a Rapier.
And that is on all the time without counting short duration bufs like Warcry and so on or IE.

So on raw stat you are just a really decent fighter, but with a lot of spells.

[Curve]

If 63 ac and 51 ab is really decent what is really good?

[Jencent]

If 63 ac and 51 ab is really decent what is really good?

Plantshape druid.

[Curve]

So one build.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

get the torch

[Jencent]

So one build.

BEcause any other non-casting builds probably will lose to fungus.

[Paint]

I've been telling people they can get 3 AC by taking a tumble dip because I don't know how math works. (But really I just kept forgetting about the free AC at 28.) Technically, not relevant for AMs, since they can't imbue armor. So. There's that.

I like that this change encourages dips, even if it's pretty brutal. I think Spellsword can actually benefit from a bit of stealth. That being said, I don't think that spellswords are that far nerfed from this. Their core skills are still very intact, and in PVP, they're still very threatening; they're just a lot squishier now.

[RedGiant]

So one build.

BEcause any other non-casting builds probably will lose to fungus.

Srsly bro, this is your like 15th post on plantshape. Sorrow wasn't being ironic. For a guy who makes 50+ AB and 60+ AC builds before shenanigans, if you don't know how to deal with a critable fire AND bludgeon vulnerable shape with the tools at hand, I don't know what to tell you.

Switch up your strawman.

Are they good? Yes. Are they immortal? No. Does plantshape and elemental shape make some druids viable now that elemental summons are severely weakened? Probably. Do they give up all casting to be good at 'thonk', unlike say cleric, spellsword, shaman, etc.? Definitely.

The goal here is not to encourage the nerf train to come to every house on the server, so that the wind whistles through its empty halls. Don't ride the nerf train. You are better.

[Kuma]

I've been telling people they can get 3 AC by taking a tumble dip because I don't know how math works. (But really I just kept forgetting about the free AC at 28.) Technically, not relevant for AMs, since they can't imbue armor. So. There's that.

I like that this change encourages dips, even if it's pretty brutal. I think Spellsword can actually benefit from a bit of stealth. That being said, I don't think that spellswords are that far nerfed from this. Their core skills are still very intact, and in PVP, they're still very threatening; they're just a lot squishier now.

as the server's only pathless spellsword (exaggeration) im feeling REAL squishy rn and i dislike it

hopefully this is the last tweak for a while

[AstralUniverse]

I dont think this (big) nerf has the class trail away from pure spellsword. I still dont really see any reason to dip. I instead tho, see even more of a reason to be a kobold.

[Jencent]

Srsly bro

Yes. Whole problem with fungus - you are cover a lot roles at once.

• insane survive abillity. Not a lot of builds able to hit throught 70+ ac.
• shit tons of damage. You are hit like a truk.
• a lot of ab. 50₆₀ ab... And this is not even a maxedout ab. Also you are able to ts+kd. With that ab yyour kd become almost granted.
• you are able to self Ward and have huge sr and regen.

All of this with kobold on top. Which have old hips without cd.

To co7nter you in 1 v1 you have to bring a lot of things, when fungus player can Just click on you.
Even raw stats are higher than any tough builded melee.

Yes, i have a build which can kill fungus, but it become a fight of pockets, not skill or builds.

[bagindawud]

Make Spellsword equivalent to arcane versions of Warpriest : remove discipline/tumble from their class skill.

Forcing dips as the Devs intended, correct? CMIIW....

[Jencent]

Make Spellsword equivalent to arcane versions of Warpriest : remove discipline/tumble from their class skill.

Forcing dips as the Devs intended, correct? CMIIW....

Bruh. They will never do such obvious thing.

[Kalthariam]

Whats this about kobolds having HIPS?

I'm confused. Kobolds don't have HIPS.

+2 Dex, -2 Str
Small-sized
Craft Trap +2
Listen +2
Spot +2
Darkvision
Bonus Feat: Rapid Reload

This is what Kobolds get. Where are you getting HIPS from? If Kobolds had HIPS they'd be insanely more popular.

[Anomandaris]

This is a spell book issue. They should lose lvl 9 spells and not be functionality an improved, Chad version of a normal wizard. I care less about them having good ac and more about them being able to one round me while also having access to Mords in their spell book.

[Jencent]

Whats this about kobolds having HIPS?

I'm confused. Kobolds don't have HIPS.

+2 Dex, -2 Str
Small-sized
Craft Trap +2
Listen +2
Spot +2
Darkvision
Bonus Feat: Rapid Reload

This is what Kobolds get. Where are you getting HIPS from? If Kobolds had HIPS they'd be insanely more popular.

Kobo from shapeshift.

[Quizmar]

spellsword is busted and needs to be significantly nerf'd. It's easily one of the top performing classes.
-remove familiar
-cap max spells learned
-remove arcane flux
-remove all access to 9th level including snowflake timestop
-make it more like warpriest