What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

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What is your sentiment on Arelith's current leveling speed and rate of xp gain?

It is too fast
144
37%
It is fine
184
48%
It is too slow
57
15%
 
Total votes: 385

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Kenji
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What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Kenji » Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:13 am

Is it too fast?
Is it too slow?
Is it fine the way it is?

Cast your vote, remain anonymous or be vocal in your sentiment.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Cabarcos » Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:33 am

I think it's fine as it is.

You can level very fast, it's true, but it depends on several things, like the writs you take. At last, I have a level 30 character, and when he was at level 25 I had more than 200K of adventuring XP in the pool. Now I'm leveling a remake of a Spellsword that was at level 26, and it's now level 12 (since Saturday).

If you don't take writs that give you a lot of XP you don't level so fast.
If you don't rush dungeons like if you are playing WoW, some of them take time, and maybe you can only complete one in one day. One dungeon that you may have completed a hundred times, could be funnier than ever with good company and taking it easy, it doesn't have to be a speed run. You would be able to do it in 15 min, but you don't have to. You can talk and RP when you are in the dungeon too.

You have now a lot of writs compared to when I started to play here, and I think it's a good thing.
You have more options and it's up to you what you do with them.

Do it if you want to level up to level 30 in a week or two. If not, don't.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Cabarcos » Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:59 am

The return to a lower rate of leveling will maybe fix some things and will screw others.
People have different lives and different timetables, and sometimes you need/have/want to leave the server for a while.
That you can't level so fast, doesn't mean that they will be there for you or that you will be there for them to continue with the RP you are on.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by ReverentBlade » Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:03 am

Its fine. You control how often you press the button.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Richrd » Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:34 am

I think tick EXP should stay the same, writ end reward EXP should go down.

It's crazy how some epic level writs will give me 7.000 experience or more when I hand them in. That's a third (ranging up to nearly a fourth at the last levels) of the total EXP required to hit the next level.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by fulminea » Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:59 am

You can level up your character to 30 in 2 - 3 weeks without taking too much effort, just do your 3 writs a day, you can also skip days if you want and still level up at light speed.

We might as well be handed level 30 characters at this point and skip the whole thing. But considering I have lost characters to over night nerfs this sort of mayfly character concept has perhaps become a necessity, at least this way you get to enjoy your fully geared level 30 char for a few weeks or even a handful of months before the next update cripples the build and you either quit or come up with something new.

But to me that becomes more and more difficult. I used to have quite fleshed out and ambitious short- and longterm goals for my RP. This is not the case anymore, since the inevitable nerf makes me reluctant to make any real investment in my or the RP of others.

To me personally all these aspects just created a feeling of meaninglessness overall and it stems from the increasing velocity of updates and leveling.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Spriggan Bride » Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:40 am

That just sounds like you’re burned out to me, not that Arelith has to change leveling speed.

I mean it’s a given that we have to put in some our precious life-hours building these characters up so there’s some (completely artificial) sense of accomplishment and earned worth to them, not unlike mining crypto in a way, but I think it’s a fallacy to think slowing down leveling alone is going to make players RP better. It’s just going to make those who want to achieve level 30 take more time to do it.

But if a player isn’t interested in low level content- which on Arelith is almost always you being low level around a lot of others who are high level unless you stick to Skal- they’re not going to stay there and they’ll be out grinding and doing writs regardless.

Just keep things as they are, it will never be a perfect balance.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Tabby » Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:13 am

I prefer RP over Speed running a dungeon any day! I prefer doing RP while in a dungeon.

An idea.. what if your tick of Exp increase when in settlements, for each hour your tick gives a little more XP, and resets if
1) you leave the settlement area (perhaps not this)
2) and/or you engage in PvE

Then it resets back to normal ticks.
This should only be taken out of the adventuring ticks, so those with less time have time for both a writ once in awhile and enjoy RP.

RP should be encouraged over Speed Running Dungeons.. sorry, i never enjoyed being with charactera that rush dungeons.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by MRFTW » Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:16 pm

If you think you're levelling too fast, stop levelling. A DM will gladly remove XP for you if you want your portrait visible. There's no excuse to have a problem with this. You're entirely in control.

If you have issues with how fast other people level:
"Mom, those other kids are having fun wrong!"

---
EDIT:
fulminea wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:59 am
But considering I have lost characters to over night nerfs this sort of mayfly character concept has perhaps become a necessity, at least this way you get to enjoy your fully geared level 30 char for a few weeks or even a handful of months before the next update cripples the build and you either quit or come up with something new.
I strongly agree with this part of the post. The arelith updates thread feels like a sword of Damocles.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Wethrinea » Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:32 pm

I'll just blatantly make a suggestion: Give the option of turning off xp gain entirely. Like the -adventure command, but instead of halved(?) xp, you gain nothing. Neither from kills, sail skill checks, ticks or writs.

I have made an effort to level slowly on my rebuild, but sailing checks and ticks alone have given me several levels before I wanted them.
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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Curve » Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:38 pm

I used to think that if a player wanted to level slower then they should just slow down. But this is not about anyones singular experience. Characters do not exists in a vacuum. The leveling speed of characters affects server culture. The current pace has pushed the server towards an arms race mentality with less character investment and more ooc cliques. Leveling speed is not the only reason for this, but it does contribute.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Tabby » Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:45 pm

Curve wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:38 pm
I used to think that if a player wanted to level slower then they should just slow down. But this is not about anyones singular experience. Characters do not exists in a vacuum. The leveling speed of characters affects server culture. The current pace has pushed the server towards an arms race mentality with less character investment and more ooc cliques. Leveling speed is not the only reason for this, but it does contribute.
I agree with this!

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by -XXX- » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:24 pm

This poll... seems to me like asking people whether they'd like receiving $1,000,000,000 from the government to fix the inflation.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Good Character » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:28 pm

Yes and no. Overall it's permitted players to stay relevant among the peers if they wish. However, this relevancy, specifically in PvP, comes at the price of alienating level 30 players, albeit at their own choice in some regard, from the greatest chunk of content and RP generator Arelith offers - dungeons. The effort began to offset this leap in leveling speed by introducing the Deep Wells to allow level 30 characters to explore dungeons with still some concern for danger and survivability, though there are some gripes held against the Deep Wells. Another thread has spoken on that in length so I digress.

While there are other areas that definitely require a party (e.g. Kohlingen, Blackfin, arguably Red Dragon Isle, etc.), aside from Kohlingen, most feel like snippets added to the world for the sake of difficulty to justify adding a runic chest there rather than an immersive part of the server.

What do I mean by immersive? There are multiple orc-based dungeons in the Dalelands. Outside these dungeons there are NPCs that reference the orc infestation, players have set-up defenses and warnings about them, ambushed wagons lay about. Skull Crags has multiple ogre-based dungeons, and you see the similar characteristics as the aforementioned Dalelands. I wish high epic levels like this existed. The only one I can immediately think of is the Abyss.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Distant Relation » Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:14 pm

I have mixed feelings on the leveling rate.

On one hand, I agree that its on the fast side, especially on Surface. It is possible to level a character so quickly that there's reduced opportunity to form bonds organically, and you can end up with a mid-epics character who's barely made any IC friends or contacts.

On the other hand, Arelith is more and more focused on the level 30 experience. Classes and paths are being designed around class synergies that won't come into place until level 25-27. It's getting increasingly difficult to add gravitas to your RP if you can't back it up with the mechanical power of a level 30 character.

I think the question is, what does Arelith want to be? Is the desired design direction to focus around fine-tuned, spreadsheet-generated, community-sourced, discord-optimized builds to feed into a pvp environment that has direct correlation to narrative power? If so, slowing down leveling will be a barrier to entry and nothing else.

"RP starts at 30" has become a self-fulfilled prophecy in the Arelith of today.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Altair01 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:19 pm

I can't comment on levels 1-15 as I only played levels 16+ on my character before the current XP gain changes, so bear that in mind.

If you want casual players to enjoy the game more by having faster levelups, but want to keep things the same for hardcore players, one way to do it is to provide an XP pool that increases over OOC offline time but decreases over online time (the pool can never go below zero) and works *per account*, not per character, similar to the adventuring XP pool but with the difference that it can be cashed out at any time by any of the player's characters. That way, someone who logs in once a week and plays for two hours can get 6500 XP that week (1000 XP per day spent offline - 250 XP per hour spent online) and thus contribute towards their character's leveling. Someone who plays more than 4 hours a day would feel no difference at all from this system. The numbers could be tuned, but you get the idea. Characters would ideally also get some gold so their equipment can slowly catch up to their new level.

With the current XP gain rate, having adventure_mode turned on throughout my current character's existence, I didn't need to finish the majority of the level 15+ quests in Bendir Dale and never did a single quest in Brogendenstein or Guldorand (I don't recall doing one in Nexus Falls either) so it's not just that there's a fast pace of leveling, it's that you miss out on a lot of content. This can be a good thing, however, as it encourages you to try new locations and quests on your next character, and if your character has good reasons not to go into a certain town (say he's in the militia of another town and doesn't get to move around a lot), the current system helps you level. I would, however, personally rather see less XP from quests (not sure about monsters), to encourage characters to play through more of them.

Before the recent changes, back in 2021, I played a character who didn't have adventure mode turned on until level 20 or so, and it meant her leveling slowed to a crawl after level 23. It was also difficult to find a group in Bendir and Brog, where she resided, but there were also no quests for levels 24+ except in the shadow plane. Relying on a large pool of adventure XP would have made her level faster. I believe saving up on adventure XP is still necessary to get from level 23 to level 30 reasonably quickly, all the more so as the passive XP gain per tick has been doubled. It would be nice if adventure_mode wasn't necessary to level, and was instead reserved for people who were more social than PvE-oriented; this could be ensured by more high-level quests and content - if there's no room for them on Arelith, create more areas in the planes and maybe make the astrolabe more accessible and put a registry agent there.

I play a lot and would be more comfortable with a slower pace of leveling than what we have now, perhaps the same as it was back in 2021. It's nice when not everyone you meet is level 30. But think about my proposal above for players to gain XP over OOC offline time, it would help out the casual players without changing how the hardcore ones percieve the game at all.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Altair01 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:43 pm

Another thing: the way sailing is set up now, it's a PvP-heavy activity because the sea is such a small place that you often run into Sencliff and Andunor. This is good because it encourages fun PvP, but it also ensures that you need a full crew of level 30 characters to sail unless your ship can retreat really fast, and anyone who is below level 30 is only coming along for the ride - your ship's average sailing skill has to be 100 because the enemy's is probably going to be 100 too. This means you won't see people of low levels being taken aboard ships unless there are also high-level characters around. The "roleplay begins at level 30" meme is really true for sailing and it affects people's expectations for the pace of leveling.

There are ways to mitigate this, but they deserve a thread of its own.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by wulfburk » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:20 pm

Current speed is more than fine. If I dont want to level up quickly, I simply dont do writs.

And nowadays its really hard to get out of range of your friends if they are lvling faster than you anyway, with the whole 20 lvl range for writs.

And I find hard to believe that OOC cliques and gatekeeping content are more of a severe problem now than when it was hard to get to lvl 30, and odds are that the opposite is true.

Character turn over is permitted by the fast leveling rate, yes, but it is actively pushed by the constant nerfs and classes overhauls (which have been great, amazing changes so far). I imagine all these new Spellswords have shelved another character, and the same applies with Paladins before them, and Clerics, and Warlocks, and the Monk nerf.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by miesny_jez » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:27 pm

I do not like the fast leveling I hate it.

This whole leveling fast + writs I blame as the major contributor to killing off RP on this server.

The second is being the continuous power creep reaching now abysmal levels.

Yes and killing off RP I say it loud and clear.
RP which required effort, longer lasting, planning, integration and RP building up characters this is all out in the bin now. Everything is Mac and cheese now.. a character you see and invite into the faction to build story together is often gone faster then you figure out a task plan that could align with the faction. Long term goals are dropped right and left as none follows anything. You spin up a RP campaign that will involve 3 factions beside your own and after two weeks you have 0 people available as characters have already rolled!

Another thing is the damage available to characters and their soloing capabilities. Previously we had to group up to do adventures in dungeons, that spinned out rp that build connections, these days it's not needed so connections are not made.

Yes I'm an old player on Arelith so lot of it is nostalgia sure but I liked that Arelith more then the current one. I liked more when I had to struggle and join up with others to do low level dungeons, now you don't even notice those places anymore as your lvls zoom forward and writs show you where to go at your level.

If you are a faction lead ask yourself, how many longer lasting RP lines did you manage to do in the last year or two? Mine is 0. Whereas those years back a quest line could be as long as 6 RL months now if it's longer then a month it won't happen. I'm not talking about one-time events I'm talking about actual longer lasting story quests for your faction that involve others.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:49 pm

I put too fast, but as I said in the thread that inspired this poll I'm really referring to levels 21-30. I think epics is a good spot for leveling to slow down, because you are no longer a gnat in the grand scheme of things. Yes, you are a long way from the power level of that level 30, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I've seen a group of low epics take down a smaller group of level 30s once, so it's not like it's impossible if the odds are in their favor action economy wise.

As for the argument "if you don't want to level fast, don't do it", yeah that doesn't work. People who don't want to level fast don't want to stop adventuring, or have 600k adventure xp backed up because they used adventure mode. Level progression is a big part of what sucks you into the game, and people who want to level fast can always just circle grind for a few hours and get there as fast as they always did. I think one of the less mentioned problems with the pace of leveling currently is that a mid epic character who logs in and has nothing to do can always go out leveling until their friends come around. A level thirty has the option of runic running (which you can only do once in the situation I am describing), standing around bored, or logging off. I expect a lot of the last one is what happens these days with leveling so fast.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Cabarcos » Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:20 pm

I understand the points made about not wanting to level up fast, but slowing the actual XP rate might not fix the issue.
Lowering it will not make appear magically people that are looking for the same kind of RP experience that you want. Maybe you will find that or not.

Maybe a solution will be to use the forum not to RP, but to help you find people that are looking for the same kind of play experience, so you can know when the other people is usually avaliable, and make easier to create adventuring groups, factions, etc.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Richrd » Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:22 pm

miesny_jez wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:27 pm
Yes and killing off RP I say it loud and clear.
RP which required effort, longer lasting, planning, integration and RP building up characters this is all out in the bin now. Everything is Mac and cheese now.. a character you see and invite into the faction to build story together is often gone faster then you figure out a task plan that could align with the faction. Long term goals are dropped right and left as none follows anything. You spin up a RP campaign that will involve 3 factions beside your own and after two weeks you have 0 people available as characters have already rolled!
I don't think you can blame the leveling speed for it. Character's don't get rolled automatically upon reaching level 30. Deleting a character and starting a new one is a conscious choice made by the player.


miesny_jez wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:27 pm
Another thing is the damage available to characters and their soloing capabilities. Previously we had to group up to do adventures in dungeons, that spinned out rp that build connections, these days it's not needed so connections are not made.
There's years-old videos of naked mages soloing Paush with their EDK. Other classes have also been able to solo "endgame" content for years (druids, shadowdancers, spellswords to name a few).
Just pointing this out because you phrased your statement like solo-builds never existed before. Those have been around for years.


All in all I can't relate to these issues. I've been having great RP with plenty of characters and the leveling speed had little to do with it all.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Kenji » Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:19 pm

fulminea wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:59 am
But considering I have lost characters to over night nerfs this sort of mayfly character concept has perhaps become a necessity, at least this way you get to enjoy your fully geared level 30 char for a few weeks or even a handful of months before the next update cripples the build and you either quit or come up with something new.
I have talked to you extensively about your specific build and case (and many other players to assess the ripple effect of the changes). But when boiled down to the gist of your specific build:
It lost 1 perform rank, which meant your character could not perform songs at their highest rank without adjustments to gear - this could be rectified.

However, "losing" that character to "overnight nerfs" is your choice from that skewed perception.

The more I read about the feedback on those changes, the more I realized that (this is not just towards you, but in general, myself included, in fact) -
Player perception can be skewed to the point that a minor adjustment that is disadvantageous to their character's build may warrant a rebuild when it doesn't invalidate the build whatsoever. This kind of overreaction really should be addressed at some point.

If anyone would like to discuss more on this unless it pertains to the rate of level/xp gain, post it on in the feedback forums or contact me on Discord. I will be available for both when I have time.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Floral Shoppe » Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:06 pm

New players still have the thrill of discovery... Veterans are going to be always repeating experiences they've had many times before on new characters. I don't believe it realistic to ask the latter to pretend the Cordor sewers are fresh and exciting again. This is something that is always going to affect this issue and it will take more than adding a few new low level dungeons occasionally to make playing at that level range exciting again to those who have been there and done that.

In fact most of the best new content like Guildorand, sailing or the new classes tend to reward you for being higher level and certainly don't have boons that entice you to slow down. Really, if you want players to stay low level there should be something lost when you advance; access to certain areas (Skal a great example of this) or other fun things that you would have to choose to give up once you go on to epic levels. Right now there is only advantage to leveling as fast as you can once you're no longer interested in the fun of exploring a new server. The only reason to stay low lever longer now is some sense of personal integrity that it's something you ought to do for the good of the world (and rate of XP gain won't affect that).

I don't think greed for gold and XP is what drives us most... It's FOMO. When you're leveling you have a lot of FOMO because most of the fun is being had by epics. If it's really important to slow us down and have a wide level range on the server someone needs to figure out how to make epics have FOMO of the fun low levels are having.

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Re: What is your sentiment towards the rate of which levels and experience are gained?

Post by Archnon » Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:09 pm

The reality is, while we all have hopes an dreams about what RP should look like, and how to build relationships, and what level RP should begin (level 1 for the record), the reality about leveling speed is we shouldn't be looking at in game mechanics or anything like that. What you need to think about is the OOC factors people confront and the goal of preserving a diverse player base.

Reality is, players range from 5+ hours/day to 2hours/week. Our RL ages range massively. Some of us are balancing college, some of us are balancing young children and careers and at this point, some of us might be introducing our children to the game. All of these types of players bring something to the culture of Arelith and all are capable of important RP contributions to the server, no matter how often they are logged on. RP doesn't necessarily mean building a long drawn-out story. It can also occur in the day-to-day interactions of characters both adventuring and sitting around a fire.

The current system of leveling does a great job of accommodating lots of different players styles, with this specifically in mind. The low-play-time player won't ever keep up in leveling speed with the constant player. However, extensive writ-work means that the low-time player can log in and run some writs and advance some. There are enough writs around the island that you can spend 2 hours and walk away with a good chunk of XP, all the better if you find people to do them with. Or they can choose to sit about a fire and chat and rack up tick XP. This alternative is key. The heavy-time players, well they will level quicker if they choose to. However, if it is going too fast, as many have pointed out, you can 1.) not take writs 2.) not click level up. Or they can just level up quickly, and roll when their stories are done. We have lots of different people, we should create opportunities for different speeds.

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