Rogues shady deals items vs spellcraft

[Cagus]

Hi,
I was testing Disjunction Shards from rogue's shady deals, and it seems that opposing save counts in bonus from spellcraft.
As these items are bombs (not even spell-like abilities), especially made against mages, this makes no sence.

The character also gains a +1 bonus for every 5 ranks in this skill to all saving throws against spells.

Until further testing I can also speculate that with spell-flag, Protection from spells will also works against it, which means effective 15+ save against it for mages.
This seems to render whole point of these items introduced pointless.

I don't know about other shady deals items, because I haven't reach the proper level yet, but I expect all of them working in the same manner.

[Dr_Hazard89]

These are magical items though. So spellcraft should count towards the saves.

Mundane things like throwing a bomb that explodes into a net to snare someone has no magic involved, but I'd assume something like Disjunction Shards are powered by magic, and so a master of magic would be better able to better defend from it. I think. Right?

[Cagus]

As I understand spellcraft, it is knowledge of spells (and spell related items). In (not exactly related terms) spellcraft is ability to recognize spell cast by words and gestures made by caster).

For these items, there is no UMD (use MAGIC devices) requirement (only levels of rogue). Therefore for RP reasons, they are not Magical items, they are just items, only knowledge of how to handle bombs and such devices (also way how to require them is not a magical mean, but more like craft means, once per IG day fir craft more than one per rest gathering magical powers).

[PinataPlethora]

These are magical items though. So spellcraft should count towards the saves.

Mundane things like throwing a bomb that explodes into a net to snare someone has no magic involved, but I'd assume something like Disjunction Shards are powered by magic, and so a master of magic would be better able to better defend from it. I think. Right?

Spellcraft allows you to observe and understand your opponent's verbal, somatic, and material spell components as they cast, in order to determine what spell they're using. That's what gives you the ability to, not only identify the spell being used, but prepare for it as well, thus improving your saving throw.

A device thrown at the ground in front of a mage could be a different type of grenade, a random rock, or really anything else of similar size. Even if the mage knows what Disjunction Shards are, a grenade housing can be very easily disguised as something else.

[Invader_Nym]

I think this is a pretty good argument actually. NWN is just weird however, and I think spellcraft bonuses manifest quite often against things that aren't, strictly speaking, spells. I'd love to see that change, to be honest.

[Dr_Hazard89]

Fair enough. That makes sense.

[yellowcateyes]

Spellcraft affecting saving throws here is unintended, and will likely be looked at when time permits.