Signature Spells Seem to Cast at Lower Levels
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Signature Spells Seem to Cast at Lower Levels
Description
==========
So Specialist Wizards get these signature spells, right? And the duration on these spells appears to be fine. The mystery is that they're really, really easy to dispel. This started with an odd fixation that Tenser's Transformation seems to get dispelled on transmutation specialists an awful lot. Like. Way more than it should? Turns out there is something to it.
Steps to reproduce
----------------------------
Essentially, get a CL 26-30 specialist wizard. Use one of their signature spells either on themselves or something else. We tested this with Good Hope, Flesh to Stone, and Tenser's Transformation. Then, use the spell Dispel Magic. We tested with both GSF: Abjuration and no foci in abjuration.
Expected result
-----------------------
The spell Dispel Magic won't be able to dispel these spells, as their caster level is too high.
Actual result
-------------------
Dispel Magic slams through all of them.
Screenshot(s)
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Misc Notes
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This is important. If you take a look at the tables http://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Dispel_Table ... pel_Tables here, you'll see that it should be impossible to dispel these spells with Dispel Magic -- it's offensive range isn't high enough(1d20+10 = 11-30 or 1d20+13= 14-33 VERSUS 12+26=38) As far as I know, rolling a nat 20 doesn't dispel spells. But in either case, we tested these multiple times and it was predictably easy to dispel with dispel magic, sometimes stripping on the first spell.
Additionally, we tested spell pen with Flesh to Stone against a shaman with the spell Spell Resistance. At CL 26+1d20, and his Spell resistance at CL 27 -- 12+27, I should have been able to hit him at about 30ish% of the time with the signature spell version of Flesh to Stone. I didn't hit him once. Mind, you, I didn't get through his spell resistance for him to even make a -save- once.
Which Server(s)?
------------------------
We only tested this on PGCC. It felt like it'd be a little awkward to try to test this ICly considering the battery we had to set up, but it likely affects the live server, too.
This is a major problem if it affects all signature spells for specialists, as it makes using these signature spells in practical applications dangerous, and almost useless. Good Hope is a cool spell to have on the enchanter specialist, but if it can be reliably dispelled every single time it's cast by a greater dispelling, there's no point in even casting it. If the spell pen for spells is locked at CL 15, these signature spells become useless against a variety of PVE enemies at late game, and have their uses in PVP slashed dramatically.
EDIT:
Important. These spells are -not- affected when prepared from your book. Additionally, despite the CL being locked to a lower level, this does -not- affect future buffs. For instance, if you cast the signature spell version of Good Hope on yourself, then chug a Bull's Strength, the Bull's Strength appears to be at the correct CL.
==========
So Specialist Wizards get these signature spells, right? And the duration on these spells appears to be fine. The mystery is that they're really, really easy to dispel. This started with an odd fixation that Tenser's Transformation seems to get dispelled on transmutation specialists an awful lot. Like. Way more than it should? Turns out there is something to it.
Steps to reproduce
----------------------------
Essentially, get a CL 26-30 specialist wizard. Use one of their signature spells either on themselves or something else. We tested this with Good Hope, Flesh to Stone, and Tenser's Transformation. Then, use the spell Dispel Magic. We tested with both GSF: Abjuration and no foci in abjuration.
Expected result
-----------------------
The spell Dispel Magic won't be able to dispel these spells, as their caster level is too high.
Actual result
-------------------
Dispel Magic slams through all of them.
Screenshot(s)
--------------------
Misc Notes
----------------
This is important. If you take a look at the tables http://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Dispel_Table ... pel_Tables here, you'll see that it should be impossible to dispel these spells with Dispel Magic -- it's offensive range isn't high enough(1d20+10 = 11-30 or 1d20+13= 14-33 VERSUS 12+26=38) As far as I know, rolling a nat 20 doesn't dispel spells. But in either case, we tested these multiple times and it was predictably easy to dispel with dispel magic, sometimes stripping on the first spell.
Additionally, we tested spell pen with Flesh to Stone against a shaman with the spell Spell Resistance. At CL 26+1d20, and his Spell resistance at CL 27 -- 12+27, I should have been able to hit him at about 30ish% of the time with the signature spell version of Flesh to Stone. I didn't hit him once. Mind, you, I didn't get through his spell resistance for him to even make a -save- once.
Which Server(s)?
------------------------
We only tested this on PGCC. It felt like it'd be a little awkward to try to test this ICly considering the battery we had to set up, but it likely affects the live server, too.
This is a major problem if it affects all signature spells for specialists, as it makes using these signature spells in practical applications dangerous, and almost useless. Good Hope is a cool spell to have on the enchanter specialist, but if it can be reliably dispelled every single time it's cast by a greater dispelling, there's no point in even casting it. If the spell pen for spells is locked at CL 15, these signature spells become useless against a variety of PVE enemies at late game, and have their uses in PVP slashed dramatically.
EDIT:
Important. These spells are -not- affected when prepared from your book. Additionally, despite the CL being locked to a lower level, this does -not- affect future buffs. For instance, if you cast the signature spell version of Good Hope on yourself, then chug a Bull's Strength, the Bull's Strength appears to be at the correct CL.
Re: Signature Spells Seem to Cast at Lower Levels
So I'm gonna chime in to note that this CL has the effect of making some of the signature spells effectively useless, or at the very least much less useful, after a certain level - for instance, a greater dispel capped at CL 15 becomes useless against level 30 mundanes and CL 27+ casters (it can never succeed on a roll to dispel) . Similarly, offensive spells like the evoker IGMS will have some trouble piercing even item granted SR without a morde's effect debuffing the enemy's spell resistance.
While the spell this impacts the most is no doubt Tenser's Transformation, even something like enchanter Good Hope, typically viewed as extremely powerful, needs to be viewed within the lens of being instantly dispelled 100% of the time whenever the target is hit with a Greater Dispel/Morde's cast by a character with epic abjuration focus.
While the spell this impacts the most is no doubt Tenser's Transformation, even something like enchanter Good Hope, typically viewed as extremely powerful, needs to be viewed within the lens of being instantly dispelled 100% of the time whenever the target is hit with a Greater Dispel/Morde's cast by a character with epic abjuration focus.
Re: Signature Spells Seem to Cast at Lower Levels
This came up again, so I'm bumping this bug report to ask if anyone else is capable of replicating the bug as described on the live server. If so, until it can be worked on, I'd suggest documenting the interaction on the wiki under the specialists section, as it may seriously impact someone's decision to play a specialist wizard.
Re: Signature Spells Seem to Cast at Lower Levels
addition: target had SR of 26 (from headband of protection)
i had 27 wizard levels
used signature crushing despair
a proof that it also affects SR piercing capabilities of the signature spells.
i had 27 wizard levels
used signature crushing despair
a proof that it also affects SR piercing capabilities of the signature spells.
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Re: Signature Spells Seem to Cast at Lower Levels
.. this explains so much. It explains why my Crushing Despair spam always gets resisted by anything with a modicum of Spell Resistance. It explains why my abjuration wizard's Greater Dispel never dispelled anything. I don't know why I never thought to check this before, but I can totally say this checks out with my ingame experience.
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Re: Signature Spells Seem to Cast at Lower Levels
I've been working on a fix for this yesterday. Should be live soonish.
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Re: Signature Spells Seem to Cast at Lower Levels
Fixed as of next reset. Thanks for both the patience and thorough bug report. It's helped me figure out what's going on.