Settlement Sizes

[azrael_athing]

Is there any official numbers on how big the different settlements are, in number of inhabbitants? (Non-players that is.)

[Queen Titania]

There are no official numbers.

[Irongron]

Yes. The question has come up before but to the nature of nwn and people's differing perception it is best to keep it vague.

For those interested though I would equate Cordor, roughly with early medieval Dublin - approx 5000 people. The rest of the human settlements I would count in the hundreds.

[Rwby]

That's an interesting thought Irongron,

If only because the latest playercount was almost three thousand distinct characters. That's a very significant portion of the Isles population, if that's the case.

[azrael_athing]

What about Andunor, is it supposedly the same size as Cordor?

[Durvayas]

I think that depends on if you consider goblin and kobold populations people or vermin nests.

Serious answer though, it seems to have a few thousand implied.

[The GrumpyCat]

Small Disclaimer! This isn't terribly official, Irongron is the only official answer here. But in terms of size comparisons of pop I always thought it went:

1) Andunor (largest, extra bloated by a huge monster population)
2) Cordor
3) Brogendenstein (Now that the earthkin village has been added anyway)
4) Bendir (but with a very flexible population size, much of it being transient)
5) Myon
6) Guldorand

I would think Wharftown would have fit somewhere between Bendir and Myon, once upon a time. I'm not sure where Bligendenstone would fit in either. But there's probably fewer than Bendir.

Again, this is just my idle speculation.

[Ramza]

*Thinks on what people have been saying about Cordor and Cordor's endless supply of troops and manpower. Then thinks back on old classes about the distribution percentages of population doing the roles of the town.* So by Irongron's estimate on population, Cordor has a nearly 60-80% military duty as a role for the population within the city. Dear god, people thought Bane was bad.

[yellowcateyes]

Plot twist: King Edward is a master necromancer/illusionist and Cordor's bountiful manpower is drawn from its extensive graveyard.

[kittenblackfriends]

Plot twist: King Edward is a master necromancer/illusionist and Cordor's bountiful manpower is drawn from its extensive graveyard.

This.

[Rwby]

https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com ... l-military

Food for thought!

The suggestion is 1 soldier per 16 men. Which would give Cordor an army of roughly 312.

It should be noted, that this of course does not count any Amnish support...

Other estimates suggest the city might have something like 50-100 actual trained full time troops and or guards, and might be able to raise as many as a 1000 men in an emergency, most of whom would be badly trained peasents, prolonged use of a force this size would eventually wreck the economy and cause civil unrest, however.

[Ramza]

So Cordor should be a destitute mess atm? Huh.

[flower]

Cordor is Merchant city.

It can upkeep mercenary elite force from its treasure regardless of population.

And yes and no. Mercenaries can be loyal on coins or be fully dedicated to their employer. History (and fantasy books) know both cases.

[Rwby]

Cordor's elite guards have previously never been depicted as being mercenaries.
Of course this could actually be the case all along, but to my knowledge, that's not been made clear. Even if they're mercenaries, they still require a population to support them.

For example, if I'm Bob, and I have infinate money, I can not hire 100 mercenaries to guard me 24/7. Why? Those mercenaries will require food, from somewhere. Ammunition, clothing, sanitary facilities. Etc etc. You could hire more mercenaries to cover those functions, but at this point you start to basically build a town of mercenaries supporting other mercenaries.

[Ramza]

Aka, Sibayad baby. Let the revolution begin.

[One Two Three Five]

Cordor's elite guards have previously never been depicted as being mercenaries.
Of course this could actually be the case all along, but to my knowledge, that's not been made clear. Even if they're mercenaries, they still require a population to support them.

For example, if I'm Bob, and I have infinate money, I can not hire 100 mercenaries to guard me 24/7. Why? Those mercenaries will require food, from somewhere. Ammunition, clothing, sanitary facilities. Etc etc. You could hire more mercenaries to cover those functions, but at this point you start to basically build a town of mercenaries supporting other mercenaries.

Capitalism. What you're describing is capitalism.
Anyway, Cordor's backed by Amn which has a population of You Lost, Basically, like most FR countries.(actually about 3 million)

[flower]

Cordor's elite guards have previously never been depicted as being mercenaries.
Of course this could actually be the case all along, but to my knowledge, that's not been made clear. Even if they're mercenaries, they still require a population to support them.

For example, if I'm Bob, and I have infinate money, I can not hire 100 mercenaries to guard me 24/7. Why? Those mercenaries will require food, from somewhere. Ammunition, clothing, sanitary facilities. Etc etc. You could hire more mercenaries to cover those functions, but at this point you start to basically build a town of mercenaries supporting other mercenaries.

Trade cities usually do not require farmland backup as can buy and Exchange goods, and fill up stores of food much easier than regular agroculture focused settlements.

[Rwby]

No, instead trade cities require merchants, port inspectors, dockhands, habour masters, and so forth.

[flower]

The trade requires much more fewer workers than city depanding on farms. What thousends people would have to grind on whole year (farms) you can simple buy and ship in in few weeks/months having only part of the manpower attending it. The point is you need to stock up only reserve stocks, as in city based on trade regular food would be trade by individuals. Unless you feed population and i doubt that is case of Cordor.

[Cerk Evermoore]

After this thread Anduinor is going to invade Cordor...

[-XXX-]

Yay, Cordor's finally going to get removed from the server! (srsly do eet! #yolodevs)

[Mr_Rieper]

So I found this.

A pretty fantastic resource, and worth the read. As many others have said, it's important to keep things in perspective, and one of the main things that determines a city's growth or wealth is merely... Food. Farming and access to sources of food.

Now bear with me, because this is a massive amount of speculation.

I've been working on a lot of things in my spare time. Very nerdy things. One of them was a map of the Crags, which I've made (to scale) by literally pasting the mini maps of the in-game areas together. From this alone, I've found massive gaps between the areas. There's a lot of space that isn't reflected in the module. Who says that the Bramble Wood is right next to the farmland? There could potentially be 3-4 areas worth of farmland there. The transition could just be quick travel.

From areas around the Crags (near Guldorand) in particular, there are many areas that could potentially have mundane things in them. For instance, people all know the area in the Howling Pass (North) map that has wyverns swooping down on them constantly. Few people know that there is actually a MASSIVE gap between that area and the one that has the Tempuran burial caves in it. A gap that is bigger than Guldorand itself, and wider too. We simply skip past it when we use the transition.

Anyway, there are other ways of getting food besides farming. Arelith is an Isle, I suspect that Wharftown wasn't the only place that sustained itself from fishing. Again, I have to look at Guldorand because it's the only place I've been paying attention to, but it has the Timberfleet, which is a flat bottom vessel, ideal for navigating shallow water but puts a limit on its size (This is why it can get to Rayne's Landing). Now, there are probably dozens of NPC boats and fishing ships that can also navigate to the deeper waters far out to the east, but the flat bottom ships should make coastal fishing a bit easier too.

Guldorand has an inn, monastery and sawmill, which puts it at the size of a town. No, villages don't have inns, adventurers and travelers normally had to use the barn of a kind farmer. The mountain regions would be too cold to farm and the ogres in the southern lowlands would probably harass farmers, but with the foreign trade? It's almost guaranteed that they could grow potatoes and other root vegetables even in the cold soil. Goats and pigs don't have models in NWN, but if they did, we'd probably see a lot of those in the Crags. And after living in such a harsh, mountainous environment, the hunters of Guldorand are almost guaranteed to be very skilled. Yep, they are literally a meat & potatoes kind of society. And fish.

Granted, they have to compete with the ogres for food, even after they drove out the other blue skinned mountain clan.

Not sure how Brogendenstein gets its food. They probably have an even tougher time than Guldorand. It seems to be a thing that the only things that breed faster than humans are monsters, so I'd imagine the dwarven population is smaller than if they were humans. Strong, but small. Same for the halflings in Bendir.
Myon is floating in the sky, so I have no idea how they get their food besides hunting and gathering.

Y'know what would be great with haks for the distant future? A Commoner class and farming/cultivation simulator. Gotta harvest that corn.

[Cerk Evermoore]

I've noticed that Rieper, I started to plan my land routes around things like this because it makes land speed travel just so much faster.

[Intrepid42]

That's a post and link worth the read, Rieper.

As to how Brogendenstein gets it's food, assuming it isn't accounted for by the IG Warehouse mechanics, I would assume trade.

As to how FR Dwarves in general get their food, this is the best single source I have found so far, from Ed Greenwood (Candlekeep Forums, Saieth Ed, 2005):

Hi, again, Phoebus. Okay, dwarves... Dwarves (and gnomes, too) are great fisherfolk, of the 'weir and trap' method more than the hookand-line or spear technique. They're also great hunters (of the 'herd prey over a killing cliff-fall, and then make a stew, carrying off marrow bones for use as trail food' sort), AND also great ranchers and farmers.

Ranchers and farmers? Yes, ranching rothé, wild boar, and other beasts with edible flesh and usable hides, that can be introduced into confined ravines and steep-sided, 'prison' mountain valleys. Like farmers, allow the growing herds to graze a valley bare, harvesting individual beasts as needed for food. At season end, keep just a few to regenerate the herd and move them to a second valley (or into mountain caverns for warmth and survival, if need be), and harvest the rest, leaving the first valley to regenerate edible plants.

Yes, farming edible cave and subterranean fungi. THIS is the 'neglected secret' of many dwarf and gnome diets: the near-surface Underdark in particular, but all depths of it to some extent, are home to a great variety of fast-growing fungi that can be sliced thin and fried, stewed, boiled to yield glues and teas and gravies, and that give dwarves (again, like elves, possessing metabolisms and chemical internal needs slightly different than those of humans, though they 'work the same way') all the nourishment they need, and a wide variety of tastes and textures [mushroom bread, anyone?]. This food source is self-regenerating unless fire is carefully and persistently used for eradication; think of real-life mildew that keeps coming back in the same spots.

Many southern and eastern gold dwarf tribes do breed, control, and harvest herds of grazing animals, and many cave-dwelling dwarves dine on bats, spiders, and various worms as delicacies. So except in the hearts of frozen glaciers, food's never as scarce as one might think. Dwarves are fierce, daring, and competent hunters (and train their young continuously to replace their elders as such), but they are also patient and persistent gatherers and foragers, who'll happily eat things many humans wouldn't consider food, or would shudder and turn away from as 'emergency edibles only' (maggots, leeches, eels, gnawing worms).

However, you're quite right: with so much trade-metal and gems to barter with, "most food the Dwarves get comes from trading (selling metalworks, weapons, armor, jewelry, etc., for foodstuffs, linen, etc)." Just like the elves, they enjoy the variety and the freedom (in terms of time not lost to foraging activities) buying food wins them. (Dwarves and gnomes distill potent vintages from Underdark materials such as molds, as well as enjoying human- or halfling-crafted beer and strong drink.) It should be noted here that dwarves and gnomes have very strong digestive systems and tolerances for 'slightly off' tainted food and for strong or foul-tasting or highly-spiced food and drink.

They also have the capacity to gorge themselves (become sluggish but not nauseated) incredibly when food is available (so that a dwarf who has six oxen to eat, raw or cooked, plus the expectation that food will later be very scarce, could settle down and stolidly and patiently eat most of those six beasts by himself, before lurching waddling on about his business. Most dwarves and gnomes smoke fish and meat into dried, hard-to-human-jaws forms for trail use, and season such 'hardscraw' to taste, taking pride in getting 'strong-but-just-right' flavours in their scraw.

As with any source, there are areas not covered. For example, the Faerzress-based flora of the Underdark, which operates by different rules to Surface and near-Surface flora. This would be a factor in trade/agriculture involving deeper-dwelling dwarf holds.

In real-life, everything that lives below ground depends on stuff trickling down from the surface, with a few exceptions such as geothermal vents. But in our fictional world of magic the caves are filled with life, even if only to provide enough light so humans can wander about without needing one hand for a torch (and then dying due to lack of oxygen)

[-XXX-]

How does Brog get food?! The same way they get beer! NPC vendor!