New Spellsword Building Thread
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Change paladin to Harper Paragon, gain tumble!
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Lose two feats, though.
Come to think of it, PDK doesn't key off int anymore, so you wouldn't double your int damage. And 3 pally/bg is only enough for one of the divine x feats, making that a waste too, unless you just want it for saves, I guess. If that's the case you could pick up saving throw feats or some save gear instead.
Come to think of it, PDK doesn't key off int anymore, so you wouldn't double your int damage. And 3 pally/bg is only enough for one of the divine x feats, making that a waste too, unless you just want it for saves, I guess. If that's the case you could pick up saving throw feats or some save gear instead.
Last edited by One Two Three Five on Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Paragon dips are actually feat-positive compared to paladin dips. Highly so if you take all your paragon in epic.One Two Three Five wrote:Lose two feats, though.
Paladin takes power attack, divine might, divine shield, three feats.
Paragon takes alertness and iron will, gets divine might and divine shield for free. If you take paragon in epic, you also get 2 free great charismas. Two feats, for the same benefit, potentially with +2 charisma ontop of that.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Ah, true! I still wonder at the utility of running an Int/Cha/(Str or Dex) spellsword, though. You'd end up needing int, cha, your attack stat, con, for a number of benefits I'd find dubious over the fighter/rogue versions. Granted, it's a fun concept, though.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Adding CHA as an important stat to a Spellsword is a bridge too far, IMO.
Admittedly, Paladin would allow you to use Aura of Glory Wands. Still, that's not something I would build around.
Admittedly, Paladin would allow you to use Aura of Glory Wands. Still, that's not something I would build around.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Really could hit max CHA with armor slot, head slot & aura wand.yellowcateyes wrote:Adding CHA as an important stat to a Spellsword is a bridge too far, IMO.
Admittedly, Paladin would allow you to use Aura of Glory Wands. Still, that's not something I would build around.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Hitting the +12 cap isn't the issue in my mind. The issue is having decent CHA while also getting INT for spellcasting / spellsword perks, a main physical stat, and solid CON. (Spellsword remains a 1d6 HP class, and dangerously squishy for a melee.)Ork wrote:Really could hit max CHA with armor slot, head slot & aura wand.
It's probably doable, but my initial reaction is that your stat spread will suffer from adding CHA into the mix. This is gut feel, mind, and not based on any attempt to actually make a paladin/spellsword.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Added a big fat warning to the builds on the front page. Rework pending.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Fighter/monk/SS looking real scary now...
Rolled: Helene d'Arque, Sara Lyonall
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Playing: Oshe Jordain
Shelved: Kels Vetian, Cin ys'Andalis, Saul Haidt
Playing: Oshe Jordain
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I, too, am eyeing monk for spellswords. But actual builds will have to wait until I have time. If someone else wants to post ideas in the meantime, that'd be great.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Does the spellsword off-hand AC stack with monk's wisdom AC because it's not an actual shield?
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I mean, the only answer I can come up with is 21 wizard minimum (EMA), 3 monk minimum (monk ac and ab progression), 4 fighter minimum (hitting that 16 APR)
So you'll have, what, 6 attacks a round, non-dual wielding? 7 hasted, 8 flurried? Double-imbued kama? Heck yea.
How would yall do the level spread though? 16 wiz/4 fighter pre-epic with exotic prof to use kama is the 'easiest' I feel like, but also kind of uh, bad? But going 12 wiz/4 monk/4 fighter has its own problems.
(AC should be whatever the dex ones get +6 or more from wisdom mod, right?)
Edit: I did some terribad napkin math and it looks like a single-kama wiz/monk/fighter can get pretty hefty ac?
10 base
13? dex (this is the big one I guess)
1 boots
20 EMA
6 wisdom (the MAD on this boy)
6 tumble
4 haste
4 int shield
2 armor skin
66! Then 76 with IE, right?
I think AB can get in the 44ish range? 8...? APR with the lights running, doing what, 50some damage a hit? Neato burrito.
So you'll have, what, 6 attacks a round, non-dual wielding? 7 hasted, 8 flurried? Double-imbued kama? Heck yea.
How would yall do the level spread though? 16 wiz/4 fighter pre-epic with exotic prof to use kama is the 'easiest' I feel like, but also kind of uh, bad? But going 12 wiz/4 monk/4 fighter has its own problems.
(AC should be whatever the dex ones get +6 or more from wisdom mod, right?)
Edit: I did some terribad napkin math and it looks like a single-kama wiz/monk/fighter can get pretty hefty ac?
10 base
13? dex (this is the big one I guess)
1 boots
20 EMA
6 wisdom (the MAD on this boy)
6 tumble
4 haste
4 int shield
2 armor skin
66! Then 76 with IE, right?
I think AB can get in the 44ish range? 8...? APR with the lights running, doing what, 50some damage a hit? Neato burrito.
Last edited by One Two Three Five on Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Wrote this up really quick.
EDIT: Tweaked it
EDIT: Tweaked it
Last edited by Zavandar on Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Strength-based? (I guess wis ac makes up for losing dex ac?)
Notes tho: Transmu is almost certainly the right choice what with how MAD this might be.
Wonder how good it'll be in the, like, 10-15 range, though. Also, that build loses 2 tumble ac but I can't see any way to run it otherwise without massively delaying monk.
Notes tho: Transmu is almost certainly the right choice what with how MAD this might be.
Wonder how good it'll be in the, like, 10-15 range, though. Also, that build loses 2 tumble ac but I can't see any way to run it otherwise without massively delaying monk.
Clerics are just socially acceptable warlocks.The devil does not need any more advocates
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
You're totally right about missing the tumble dump. Hmm. I will think.
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Here's a dex variant of a similar build:
It's looking, though, that you may need to just suck it up and swap out fighter 5 and make it a monk 5. Lose out on epic weapon spec but if you're dex-based you'll want to grab esf: discipline because you don't have the strength mod to bump it up.
Let's say you had an even 10 strength. +12 makes it 22, mod of 6. 30 discipline, 6 from strength, 10 from esf, 7 from spellsword. This puts you at 53 before gear, which is workable. 43 before gear? Not so much. I know some casters get away from that, but you'll be in melee a lot!
It's looking, though, that you may need to just suck it up and swap out fighter 5 and make it a monk 5. Lose out on epic weapon spec but if you're dex-based you'll want to grab esf: discipline because you don't have the strength mod to bump it up.
Let's say you had an even 10 strength. +12 makes it 22, mod of 6. 30 discipline, 6 from strength, 10 from esf, 7 from spellsword. This puts you at 53 before gear, which is workable. 43 before gear? Not so much. I know some casters get away from that, but you'll be in melee a lot!
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Okay, getting into really weird territory here.
This one uses a q-staff:
This one uses a q-staff:
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
+1 from fighter, +16/18 from gear puts you at 60/62 without esf:dZavandar wrote: Let's say you had an even 10 strength. +12 makes it 22, mod of 6. 30 discipline, 6 from strength, 10 from esf, 7 from spellsword. This puts you at 53 before gear, which is workable. 43 before gear? Not so much. I know some casters get away from that, but you'll be in melee a lot!
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Gearing these is going to be a nightmare, it occurs to me. Possible, certainly, especially with the new system (If it works the way I think), but a nightmare. With epic transmu and assuming you don't get dispel-spammed, you need 5 gear-buffs in wisdom, intelligence, dexterity, constitution minimum, I'd think. That gets your AC (wis and dex), damage (int), and AB (dex, for dex ones) as far up as possible. Str is probably also a decent get.
For strengthers since you're a monk you'll want str, wis, con, int, AND dex to fix that you can't wear armor.
For strengthers since you're a monk you'll want str, wis, con, int, AND dex to fix that you can't wear armor.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Is the Spellsword parryist dream alive? With DEX spellsword, you could reach a passable Parry for a diminutive investment with 5 attacks per round Hasted, each Parried attack giving a significant boost to the attack throw in terms of damage and AB.
I'm wondering if this could actually overcome the hypothetical probability of dealing damage versus high AC opponents without the Parry mode, where the hope of dealing damage would solely rest on the off-chance of 20s given the generally low base AB.
Surely this could be calculated somehow, but the maths is beyond me at this hungover minute.
I'm wondering if this could actually overcome the hypothetical probability of dealing damage versus high AC opponents without the Parry mode, where the hope of dealing damage would solely rest on the off-chance of 20s given the generally low base AB.
Surely this could be calculated somehow, but the maths is beyond me at this hungover minute.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
I mean, with the spellsword lights running- haste, etc, true strike if you're nasty- you're probably better off just dropping out of invis and carving [the monster] a new breathe-hole instead.
I do my level best to never ever do parry math, so that'll be up to someone else, but the damage on a riposte wouldn't necessarily be insignificant, just worse than attacking normally unless you couldn't hit them normal. Ac should be high enough, especially on the monk version once that's figured out, to avoid hits through that if not parry.
I do my level best to never ever do parry math, so that'll be up to someone else, but the damage on a riposte wouldn't necessarily be insignificant, just worse than attacking normally unless you couldn't hit them normal. Ac should be high enough, especially on the monk version once that's figured out, to avoid hits through that if not parry.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Okay! This is the best I have so far, I think:
Strength, constitution, and wisdom can all go +/- 2. Depends on if you want more health/fort, ac/will, or damage/carry weight/discipline.
ECL dex and int, grab 1 int somewhere while leveling to get 19, then dex all the rest of the way. 19 int +11 from buffs gives you 30, which gives you the 10 mod you need to maximize on your bonus spellsword damage.
Didn't bother with weapon specs. Fighter serves to give necessary bonus feats and 16 BAB. I take arcane defense: abjuration to raise caster level vs. dispels to 26.
Esf: transmute and runecrafting really enable this build. The enchants aren't terribly difficult. I highlighted the two that'd be somewhat difficult.
Strength, constitution, and wisdom can all go +/- 2. Depends on if you want more health/fort, ac/will, or damage/carry weight/discipline.
ECL dex and int, grab 1 int somewhere while leveling to get 19, then dex all the rest of the way. 19 int +11 from buffs gives you 30, which gives you the 10 mod you need to maximize on your bonus spellsword damage.
Didn't bother with weapon specs. Fighter serves to give necessary bonus feats and 16 BAB. I take arcane defense: abjuration to raise caster level vs. dispels to 26.
Esf: transmute and runecrafting really enable this build. The enchants aren't terribly difficult. I highlighted the two that'd be somewhat difficult.
Intelligence is too important
Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Another possible build--this time paladin.. and human aasimar.
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Can also now grab Wizard for AA or just an Uncanny Dodge + epic feat without great compunctions! E.g. Pally21/Spellsword6/Monk3 for knightlier Gandalf build *drool*
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Re: New Spellsword Building Thread
Ok.Making Spellsword compatible with monk UBAB actually might have been too big of a buff.
Dex-based, dual wielding.
16 pre-epic BaB
5 epic
3 weapon focises
13 dex
3 mdamask
40?
-2 for dual wielding, 38. Not super high! You can always pop true strike for 58 I guess. Also, stick a fire imbue on your main hand for the AC loss might help. Note: Monk bab is -3, not -5, so the lower AB might not hurt as much? (You can always GMW to get back to 40 even) If you switch on flurry, 36. So again not great.
Damage offfff..
3.5 kama average
6 mdamask
4 essence
11? int damage
2d12 (average 13?) dual imbue
6 strength mod
43.5!
Assuming you drop a true strike and land all hits (you wont) looking at 56/53/50/47/44/41/56/53/56/56? Right? I'm doing this from memory, correct me.
And you'll do an average of 435 damage. If all hits land (no).
Kind of a death by a thousand cuts scenario honestly. The 20 rogue kama one does.. I think more damage? Granted, slinging 40 imbue saves at someone a round is absolutely hilarious and possibly broken.
Other than the imbue thing it's just another gimmicky dual-kama build that doesn't work as well save situationally.
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