what am I thinking of then... maybe the Bane of Enemies +2 to hit can stack to potentially bring your total + above 5 then... ? There was some Favored Enemy thing I remember that upped a Ranger's bonus to bypass DR, maybe I am completely mistaken.
All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
Moderators: Active DMs, Forum Moderators
Re: All Things Ranged builds
-Unit of beauty required to launch one ship = 1 milihelen
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged builds
Only the enhancement bonus from the bow applies, sadly. That means only AAs get the monopoly of getting an enhancement of higher than 5 to bypass DRs in their arrows provided they go past 9 levels. AA's enchant arrows enhancement also doesn't stack with the bow's enhancement, but the extra ABs still stack according to http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Enchant_arrowThe Kriv wrote: ↑Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:40 pmwhat am I thinking of then... maybe the Bane of Enemies +2 to hit can stack to potentially bring your total + above 5 then... ? There was some Favored Enemy thing I remember that upped a Ranger's bonus to bypass DR, maybe I am completely mistaken.
A good analogy would be that AAs are armor-piercing turrets while dedicated rangers shoot hollow-point rounds that deal greater damage if it goes through, I guess.
-
- Posts: 758
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:03 am
- Location: Ireland (Poland)
Re: All Things Ranged builds
I had some good success with a Tribal Barb ranged character.
An unorthodox approach, but does work nicely especially strong in low->early epic levels. Tribals will hold the monsters reliably until lvl 16-18 where You start to outdamage them too much.
Build is: Barb23/Fighter4/Rogue3
Dwarf + HCrossbow for Brownie points
Barbarian - for HP/Tribals and movement speed increase
Fighter - EWS
Rogue - for SA, UMD/Traps and Evasion
Will not be as damaging as a AA, but makes a Ranged character much more enjoyable experience.
An unorthodox approach, but does work nicely especially strong in low->early epic levels. Tribals will hold the monsters reliably until lvl 16-18 where You start to outdamage them too much.
Build is: Barb23/Fighter4/Rogue3
Dwarf + HCrossbow for Brownie points
Barbarian - for HP/Tribals and movement speed increase
Fighter - EWS
Rogue - for SA, UMD/Traps and Evasion
Will not be as damaging as a AA, but makes a Ranged character much more enjoyable experience.
Re: All Things Ranged builds
I am new at adding spells on the assembly template slots. Do you have an opinion what should be the best spells to ad on?
Re: All Things Ranged builds
Blackstaff and GMW seem like the best choices to my mind, as long as you have a high level caster.
UilliamNebel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:24 pmYou're right. Participating in the forums was a mistake. Won't do this again.
Anime Sword Fighter wrote: I have seen far too many miniskirt anime slave girls.
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged builds
Added to OP! Did you solo a lot with this build? How was the drunk mechanic working out for ranged?
When filling the templates' unstable slots:
GMW provides slashing damage property and caps at 5 with 15+ CL (2 damage with scrolls)
Deafening Clang provides sonic damage and caps at 7 with 27 CL (commonly 6 sonic damage with 23 paladin CL)
Keen edge gives slashing 1d4 and a wounding property with save DC 16 (Maybe higher damage and DC with higher CL?)
I haven't tested the new system with Bless Weapon or Blackstaff yet, can someone confirm if Blackstaff gives dispel and Bless Weapon still have the 2d6 Divine vs undead, outsider, and dragon?
-
- Posts: 758
- Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:03 am
- Location: Ireland (Poland)
Re: All Things Ranged builds
This build can Solo anything up till lvl 18 - 20 - thats what You have Tribals in it for. I reached lvl 21 on it and decided to switch to another character.
Drunk mechanic works as normal.. if You drink too much You will lower Your DX which is not a good idea on a ranged character. But... You can always drop that bow/crossbow and switch to melee through drinking yourself down .
A good starting stat spread for this kind of build is (on dwarf, adjust for other races as required):
Code: Select all
STR: 15 (16)
DEX: 18 (26) {Gift + 2x GreatDX}
CON: 16
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 6
Main AB ramp up is reached at lvl 21 and 22 from EWF and EProwess.
What I liked the most in this approach was this:
1) Tribals will keep enemies from You on lower to mid levels ( plus Tribals have regeneration)
2) You have loads of HP and DR from Barb , so even if anything gets to You - You won't die, You have time to reposition/switch to melee
3) You are faster +10% run from Barbarian
4) In 90% of cases you will have Flank bonus (+2 AB), so Your first three shots will have +2 AB in almost all situations
5) Using Called Shot:Legs - will make Your tribals hit Your enemies more, catch up faster
6) You have access to Disci/UMD/Traps/Stealth and have points to spare for it as Barbarian is 4 skill/level
7) You have Evasion, High Rflx and Fort saves.
You could *Probably* adapt it to something quite silly for throwing weapons - as You have access to drunk strength and sensible starting ST. No idea I only investigate and played this for crossbow
Oh one more thing to remember:
Heavy Crossbow CAN be used by small races (halflings, goblins, gnomes, wild dwarves, kobolds), whereas Longbow cannot by used by those races!
Re: All Things Ranged builds
Blackstaff provides 3 magic damage (no dispel) off a level 27 caster. GMW provides 4 slashing damage from the same caster.Kenji3108 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:59 pmWhen filling the templates' unstable slots:
GMW provides slashing damage property and caps at 5 with 15+ CL (2 damage with scrolls)
Deafening Clang provides sonic damage and caps at 7 with 27 CL (commonly 6 sonic damage with 23 paladin CL)
Keen edge gives slashing 1d4 and a wounding property with save DC 16 (Maybe higher damage and DC with higher CL?)
I haven't tested the new system with Bless Weapon or Blackstaff yet, can someone confirm if Blackstaff gives dispel and Bless Weapon still have the 2d6 Divine vs undead, outsider, and dragon?
I assume all weapon spells have unique scaling for templates.
UilliamNebel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:24 pmYou're right. Participating in the forums was a mistake. Won't do this again.
Anime Sword Fighter wrote: I have seen far too many miniskirt anime slave girls.
-
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:17 pm
Re: All Things Ranged builds
High CL Darkfire. Nets you 1d6 fire and 1d6 negative in a singular slot.
(pls dont nerf)
Be faithful in the face of death
And I will give you the crown of life
And I will give you the crown of life
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged builds
I'll be adding these to the template section of the thread, thanks!Revelations wrote: ↑Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:14 pmHigh CL Darkfire. Nets you 1d6 fire and 1d6 negative in a singular slot.
(pls dont nerf)
Any other high CL spells tested on templates that folks wanna share? I have only tried flame weapons (1d6 fire) and Keen Edge (1d4 Slashing, Wounding DC-16) with lower CL casters, we may as well build a compendium for all to see.
The question here is: Are these spells 'scaled' on a % basis for the unstable slots, or are they simply 'capped out' after a certain point? If it is the latter, that means players won't have to find a high CL caster to fill these unstable slots seeing that any higher CL won't benefit the slot further.
Re: All Things Ranged builds
To templates: How exactly does this 'degrade' works?
Also when I cast on template, it says it has 5 charges (even when 25 on template).
Does it mean, after this template becomes 'emptied' again, and I have to reapply temp essence or spell?
Can I then use a different one, or it is 'imprinted' and have to use the same?
Also when I cast on template, it says it has 5 charges (even when 25 on template).
Does it mean, after this template becomes 'emptied' again, and I have to reapply temp essence or spell?
Can I then use a different one, or it is 'imprinted' and have to use the same?
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged builds
When you apply an arcane/divine spell (5 charges) or a temporary essence (10 charges) to the unstable slots, the charges will deplete after the bundles are used on them.
You 'must' deplete the unstable slot before using another to fill the slot again as of the update from 6/22/2018. After that, you can fill it with anything else you wish without having to worry about whether the spells or essences you fill the slot are the same or not. You can continue to use a bundle on a template even if it doesn't have any temporary essences.
As for the regular charges of the template, only the Standard, Stable, and Advanced templates will degrade with each use. Stable ones are repairable, whereas Standard and Advanced templates are not, therefore making the latter two consumables.
Basic and Simple templates do not degrade over use. Ranged characters with access to bundles are encouraged to get those crafted soon as able.
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged builds
I tested a few arcane spells out, here is what I found:
25CL:
Blackstaff: 3 Magical (Same as 27 CL)
Keen Edge: 1d6 Physical (slashing), Wounding DC-24
Greater Magic Weapon: 4 Physical (slashing), same as 27 CL
Flame Weapon: 1d8 Fire
Magic Weapon: 1 Physical (slashing)
True Strike: didn't apply
I guess on templates, there is some kind of different scaling, but the cutoff is observable.
If someone can test the Paladin and the Cleric ones, that'd be great!
25CL:
Blackstaff: 3 Magical (Same as 27 CL)
Keen Edge: 1d6 Physical (slashing), Wounding DC-24
Greater Magic Weapon: 4 Physical (slashing), same as 27 CL
Flame Weapon: 1d8 Fire
Magic Weapon: 1 Physical (slashing)
True Strike: didn't apply
I guess on templates, there is some kind of different scaling, but the cutoff is observable.
If someone can test the Paladin and the Cleric ones, that'd be great!
Re: All Things Ranged builds
I can add my part:
Cleric CL 19:
Darkfire - 1d4 fire&negative
GWM - 3 Physical
(I can test in the future when it goes to 1d6 and 4)
(And also I would assume that level 30 will give maximum bonuses 1d8 and 5, but that's what I won't be able to test)
Also I have another question. The added slashing makes the damage piercing-slashing (for immunities and resistances & AC vs. ) or is it added like slashing damage in another way?
Cleric CL 19:
Darkfire - 1d4 fire&negative
GWM - 3 Physical
(I can test in the future when it goes to 1d6 and 4)
(And also I would assume that level 30 will give maximum bonuses 1d8 and 5, but that's what I won't be able to test)
Also I have another question. The added slashing makes the damage piercing-slashing (for immunities and resistances & AC vs. ) or is it added like slashing damage in another way?
Last edited by Cagus on Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged builds
Thanks, so now we know the maximum damage and minimum CL for GWM would be somewhere in between 20 to 25.
As for the slashing damage, it is a separate damage property on the arrow, so different resistances and immunities still apply to each of them.
I have tested Blade Thirst on the template, it works! My character still has low CL, however, so I will be testing some more in the future:
Blade Thirst: Negative 2, Vampiric +2 (8 CL)
Edit: I crafted a Blade Thirst wand (CL 12) and tested that on the template, it is now Negative 1d4, Vampiric +2, instead.
Last but not least:
According to the BD patch notes indicated by one of the devs: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/c ... ent_991228
Assassins can now use Improved Sneak Attack even without Sneak Attack 1! I will be reverting the shinobi builds back to the build with higher initial Dex at the cost of Wis, and utilize one of the great dex gained from Assassin epic bonus feat to take Improved Sneak Attack, instead.
As for the slashing damage, it is a separate damage property on the arrow, so different resistances and immunities still apply to each of them.
I have tested Blade Thirst on the template, it works! My character still has low CL, however, so I will be testing some more in the future:
Blade Thirst: Negative 2, Vampiric +2 (8 CL)
Edit: I crafted a Blade Thirst wand (CL 12) and tested that on the template, it is now Negative 1d4, Vampiric +2, instead.
Last but not least:
According to the BD patch notes indicated by one of the devs: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/c ... ent_991228
Assassins can now use Improved Sneak Attack even without Sneak Attack 1! I will be reverting the shinobi builds back to the build with higher initial Dex at the cost of Wis, and utilize one of the great dex gained from Assassin epic bonus feat to take Improved Sneak Attack, instead.
Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
Because no one mentioned it so far, I use a Sniper6/assn13/AA11 build. 11 AS for the +6 enhancement to my arrows. Assn for magic damage, and sniper for feats, infinite free steel arrows, and 6 levels instead of 5, for a skill dump into discipline near the end. No epic dodge, but +6 is worth it to me. Very much a PvP build, but just enough assn levels at low level for ghostly visage give you a lot of needed survival.
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
Cool build, thanks for sharing!DarkPerin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:08 pmBecause no one mentioned it so far, I use a Sniper6/assn13/AA11 build. 11 AS for the +6 enhancement to my arrows. Assn for magic damage, and sniper for feats, infinite free steel arrows, and 6 levels instead of 5, for a skill dump into discipline near the end. No epic dodge, but +6 is worth it to me. Very much a PvP build, but just enough assn levels at low level for ghostly visage give you a lot of needed survival.
My quick thought behind your build is that DR/+5 can be bypassed with just +5 Enhancement from 9 AA, ranger archer path only really benefit from the class up to level 5 for the extra damage and steel arrows, and that means extra 3 levels to boost Assassin up to 16 to qualify for epic dodge.
Maybe Ranger(archer) 5 / Assassin 16 / AA 9 works better on paper? The clutches I can think of are applying for Assassin token at ranger 5 can be tricky and taking AA9 at level 30 in order to take Epic Dodge and last discipline dump means a lot of level gaps before getting +5 Enhancement. Maybe I'm missing something from this line of thought. Let me know!
Edit:
Can't convert the Ranger 5 FE into GSF since there aren't enough levels to pad the feats for a SF and qualify for PrC at the same time, sadly.
Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
You still won't get epic dodge. You can't take it at level 16. It must be taken afterwards, as improved evasion isn't added until afterwards. You also miss out on Attack Bonus.
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
I know Epic dodge can't be taken at Assassin 16, which is why AA 9 is taken at lvl30, and Assassin 16 is taken at 29 in order to qualify for epic dodge. Here's a rough draft:
https://i.imgur.com/Kd4BcUU.png
The BAB loss comes from Assassin 1 and Assassin 4->5, 18 BAB before epic. Effectively trading 2 AB (1 from Assassin 5+, 1 from not reaching AA 11) for epic dodge if the path pans out. Maybe I'm missing something here? I can put this up as a variant one and the original Ra6/As13/AA11 as the main one.
What does your experience as the ranged assassin tell you? Would 2 AB be more important than Epic Dodge (if the variant one works at all)?
I'm still working on other build drafts and will post those soon as I'm done.
https://i.imgur.com/Kd4BcUU.png
The BAB loss comes from Assassin 1 and Assassin 4->5, 18 BAB before epic. Effectively trading 2 AB (1 from Assassin 5+, 1 from not reaching AA 11) for epic dodge if the path pans out. Maybe I'm missing something here? I can put this up as a variant one and the original Ra6/As13/AA11 as the main one.
What does your experience as the ranged assassin tell you? Would 2 AB be more important than Epic Dodge (if the variant one works at all)?
I'm still working on other build drafts and will post those soon as I'm done.
Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
That build has no Discipline. AA cannot dump for Discipline,a s it is not a skill the class has. Your last level must be ranger to do such. I suppose it comes down to which you want more. DIscipline, or Epic dodge. But I can tell you, this same build with discipline, will destroy the epic dodge character, after you use called shot a few times, and he can't hit jack.
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
For some reason I kept thinking AAs have discipline, happens when I'm working on multiple other paths at the same time, oops.
I'll put it back to the original Ranger 6 / Assassin 13 / AA 11, then.
For discussion's sake: does the first 2 or 3 attack applies called shot check? What about Epic Dodge? Does it dodge the "first" successful attacks and therefore circumvent the called shot check, or only dodges the "first 1 attack" that the other attacks that went through still procs the check?
I'll put it back to the original Ranger 6 / Assassin 13 / AA 11, then.
For discussion's sake: does the first 2 or 3 attack applies called shot check? What about Epic Dodge? Does it dodge the "first" successful attacks and therefore circumvent the called shot check, or only dodges the "first 1 attack" that the other attacks that went through still procs the check?
Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
Epic dodge dodges the first attack that would hit. But AA's tend to not miss with attack bonuses being around 50. You can use called shots multiple times in a round, and between rapid shot, and haste, you get three attacks with full attack bonus -2. Which is still incredibly powerful, and enough to kill a lot of builds in one round.
-
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:18 pm
Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
I believe it's time to rename the Complex Template to "Masochistic Complex Template that breaks down and you can't repair, needing months of therapy to regain your self-esteem"
Code: Select all
Complex Template
- 1 Adaptive Gears:
1 Standard Catalyst -Alchemy- 40skp + 2skp + 5skp + 10skp = 57 skillpoints on 3 skills
1 Blood of a Magic Creature, 1 Ingot Silver -Forging- 2skp [4 Coal, 2 Rock Chunk Silver],
1 Glass bottle -Art- 5skp [2 Glass 10skp (2 Sand, 2 Coal), 2 Coal]
2 Brass Gears -Forging- 12skp + 8skp + 5skp + 10skp + 4skp = 39 skillpoints on 3 skills
2 Flask of Oil -Herb- 8skp [4 Harnak Seeds, 2 Glass Vial -Art- 5skp (2 Glass 10skp (2 Sand, 2 Coal), 2 Coal)
2 Brass Ingot -Forging- 4skp [4 Coal, 2 Rock Chunk Copper, 2 Rock Chunk Zinc]
1 Dragon Oil -Alch/Herb- 80skp + 20skp + 5skp + 10skp = 115 skillpoints on 3 skills
1 Dragonhide
1 Dragon Blood
5 Flask of Oil -Herb- 20skp [10 Harnak Seeds, 5 Glass Vial -Art- 5skp (2 Glass 10skp (2 Sand, 2 Coal), 2 Coal)
1 Emulsified Oil -Alch/Carp- 20skp + 5skp + 10skp + 10skp + 8skp + 4skp + 5 skp + 10 skp + 10 skp = 82 skillpoints on 3 skills
4 Harnak Seeds
2 Charcoal -Carp/Herb- 5skp
2 Glass Bottle -Art- 5skp [2 Glass 10skp (2 Sand, 2 Coal), 2 Coal]
4 Hardwood
1 Alchemist's Fire -Alch- 10skp
1 Lesser Catalyst -Alch- 8skp
1 Blood of a Magic Creature
1 Brass Ingot -Forging- 4skp [2 Coal, 1 Rock Chunk Copper, 1 Rock Chunk Zinc]
1 Glass Bottle -Art- 5skp [2 Glass 10skp (2 Sand, 2 Coal), 2 Coal]
10 Glass Vial -Art- Glass Vial -Art- 10skp (2 Glass 10skp (2 Sand, 2 Coal), 2 Coal)
5 Fluorspar
1 Rock Chunk (Iron)
1 Small Seed Balm -Herb/Carp- 10skp [3 Strideleaf, 6 Nuts, 3 Sassone Leaves, 6 Yarrow Leaves]
- 4 Glass Vial -Art- 5skp (2 Glass 10skp (2 Sand, 2 Coal), 2 Coal)
- 2 Hardwood
- 1 Diamond
Supposing you find the gems instead of cutting them, it's about a 308 skillpoint investment on multiple crafting skills.
You can save some points from finding bottles/vials or adding the spare ones from one object to the next,
if you craft everything mostly by yourself.
-
- Arelith Platinum Supporter
- Posts: 1507
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 9:14 am
- Location: Mechanics Dungeon
Re: All Things Ranged (Builds, Launchers, Templates)
Thanks for posting! I really should have gone to discord with the thread a lot earlier.
As for the OP, folks will notice that there a ton more new additions.
I give thanks to Jack Oat (original author for the Monk/Bard/AA build) who just cranked out all of these and pm'd me on discord! There will be most likely more builds to be added as time goes on.
I have also reformatted the OP to the Link and the Level distribution first, names and notes later.
As for the OP, folks will notice that there a ton more new additions.
I give thanks to Jack Oat (original author for the Monk/Bard/AA build) who just cranked out all of these and pm'd me on discord! There will be most likely more builds to be added as time goes on.
I have also reformatted the OP to the Link and the Level distribution first, names and notes later.