Raise RPR to 30

[Draco]

I wasn't even aware of this issue until recently and it seems like a pretty big one. People making characters with the SOLE PURPOSE of deleting them for a reward. Soley for some stupid gimmicky reward, the current system encourages it even. Make a powerbuild with no RP motivation what-so-ever, probably grab the gift of humility for -2 ECL because who cares, you're deleting this nothing character anyways. Even among people, I'd consider good RPers are taking advantage of this utterly lame tactic.

Go on the test server and talk to people, you get a clear understanding of where their priorities are. "This awesome build only works on this race, better go grind to 19 and roll". Greatly taking away from the immersive world of Arelith. Generally, it's not even for the race that they want to RP so much as the stats and gimmicks it has to offer. So my suggestion is to raise the Epic Sacrifice to RPR 30 if they want that roll.

[Void]

I wasn't even aware of this issue until recently and it seems like a pretty big one. People making characters with the SOLE PURPOSE of deleting them for a reward. Soley for some stupid gimmicky reward, the current system encourages it even. Make a powerbuild with no RP motivation what-so-ever, probably grab the gift of humility for -2 ECL because who cares, you're deleting this nothing character anyways. Even among people, I'd consider good RPers are taking advantage of this utterly lame tactic.

Go on the test server and talk to people, you get a clear understanding of where their priorities are. "This awesome build only works on this race, better go grind to 19 and roll". Greatly taking away from the immersive world of Arelith. Generally, it's not even for the race that they want to RP so much as the stats and gimmicks it has to offer. So my suggestion is to raise the Epic Sacrifice to RPR 30 if they want that roll.

I think it doesn't matter what their priorities are as long as their character is fun/interesting. And it can be fun/interesting if they are planning to kill it or if it exists for the purpose of reward roll.

---

Main obligation of a player on Arelith is act as an AI for an npc other people can interact with. Basically, it is close to being digital Westworld, except each is host and guest at the same time. You act out your part, and in exchange you get to experience the world. As long as the player fullfills this part of agreement, their duty is done.

The less you know about other players behind the mask and about their motivation, the more fun you'll have. There's more than one person making a character for the sole purpose of murdering it in the name of epic sacrifice. However, that character can be very interesting to interact with regardless, and can grow into something more than it was originally meant to be.

[DM Rex]

While it's understandable to want more out of characters that you encounter, the premise behind the current limits are to allow people who first join to get to know the server and build their first concepts. Those that strictly run grind are not likely to be lifted into the 20 rpr level by another player or the DM Team in this way.

The reward behind epic sacrifice is still to have players move through characters rather than hold onto them. But everyone interprets that in their own way. That said, if there is a concern about someone's behavior and strictly run grinding, do let the DM Team know and we might conduct an investigation into their rpr. As this is not the intended or preferred behavior for the system.

[Liareth]

I wasn't even aware of this issue until recently and it seems like a pretty big one. People making characters with the SOLE PURPOSE of deleting them for a reward. Soley for some stupid gimmicky reward, the current system encourages it even. Make a powerbuild with no RP motivation what-so-ever, probably grab the gift of humility for -2 ECL because who cares, you're deleting this nothing character anyways. Even among people, I'd consider good RPers are taking advantage of this utterly lame tactic.

Go on the test server and talk to people, you get a clear understanding of where their priorities are. "This awesome build only works on this race, better go grind to 19 and roll". Greatly taking away from the immersive world of Arelith. Generally, it's not even for the race that they want to RP so much as the stats and gimmicks it has to offer. So my suggestion is to raise the Epic Sacrifice to RPR 30 if they want that roll.

Isn't the suggestion box closed?

Don't hate the player, hate the game. People roll GoH warlocks and powergrind to 26 because the award system is inherently *flawed*. This is the most efficient way to unlock the custom race you want for your character. Do you think RPR 30+ players are bastions of roleplaying purity who wouldn't dare lower themselves to, ugh, circle grind? The solution is to rethink the award system, not gate it behind a difficult to reach RPR level.

[Opustus]

I find it weird that Gift of Humility is a thing. I may be mistaken but it seems plainly made for circlegrind reward characters. EDIT: I guess it saves some time if you have a specific race you reallyreally want to play and are a busy person.

[Void]

I wasn't even aware of this issue until recently and it seems like a pretty big one. People making characters with the SOLE PURPOSE of deleting them for a reward. Soley for some stupid gimmicky reward, the current system encourages it even. Make a powerbuild with no RP motivation what-so-ever, probably grab the gift of humility for -2 ECL because who cares, you're deleting this nothing character anyways. Even among people, I'd consider good RPers are taking advantage of this utterly lame tactic.

Go on the test server and talk to people, you get a clear understanding of where their priorities are. "This awesome build only works on this race, better go grind to 19 and roll". Greatly taking away from the immersive world of Arelith. Generally, it's not even for the race that they want to RP so much as the stats and gimmicks it has to offer. So my suggestion is to raise the Epic Sacrifice to RPR 30 if they want that roll.

Isn't the suggestion box closed?

Don't hate the player, hate the game. People roll GoH warlocks and powergrind to 26 because the award system is inherently *flawed*. This is the most efficient way to unlock the custom race you want for your character. Do you think RPR 30+ players are bastions of roleplaying purity who wouldn't dare lower themselves to, ugh, circle grind? The solution is to rethink the award system, not gate it behind a difficult to reach RPR level.

Well, current system in essence is sacrificing user's lifespan in exchange of a chance of an award. At least if the user is willing to powergrind their way to victory.

I'd be all for any alternative approach that lets me get access to other races, though.

I find it weird that Gift of Humility is a thing. I may be mistaken but it seems plainly made for circlegrind reward characters. EDIT: I guess it saves some time if you have a specific race you reallyreally want to play and are a busy person.

It is supposed to be crippling. The problem is there are couple of classes that do not heavily depend on their stats. And for those classes GoH accelerates progression.

[Draco]

I find it weird that Gift of Humility is a thing. I may be mistaken but it seems plainly made for circlegrind reward characters.

+1

While it may not have been intentional the current system encourages it.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. People roll GoH warlocks and powergrind to 26 because the award system is inherently *flawed*. This is the most efficient way to unlock the custom race you want for your character. Do you think RPR 30+ players are bastions of roleplaying purity who wouldn't dare lower themselves to, ugh, circle grind? The solution is to rethink the award system, not gate it behind a difficult to reach RPR level.

Part of why this bothers me is in what attracted me to Arelith in the first place. "We put RP first, we embrace the mundane". But then make some easily exploitable system where you can play a race you chose for the mechanics and not the RP. No I wouldn't judge someone with RPR 10 any differently from 40, BUT it is really easy to get RPR 20. So saying that DMs won't give RPR 20 to someone built whose built for powergrinding is silly because I see it on the daily. DMs aren't watching one specific character all day, they have better things to do. I've seen people run right past me in leveling areas ignoring my RP. But when you finally get their attention they show their RP chops. That's all that's really needed to get RPR 20 I find, the minimal RP.

[Void]

BUT it is really easy to get RPR 20.

It's not. It took me months to get it, and recently there was a thread of someone who played for (I think) few years without getting RPR20.

[Archnon]

This suggestion is really short sighted and not very empathetic to other players experiences. It is not easy to get to 20 RPR. Especially if you play at off play times or in non-hubs, though the staff has done a lot to try and find DM's for these times. If your character is a really strong RPer or even a leader in a not-super-active area, the DM's will not notice you. This is also true of good RPers who have limited play time. You do not want to hamstring those characters who work hard to get their character to level 26+, feel their adventure is over and want to roll and try something knew.

Further, you are assuming that the 20 RPR players are the ones who are doing this. This is a known tactic at all levels above 20 RPR. I have no doubt plenty of 30 RPR players aiming at a key concept for RP reasons will circle grind trash characters to get a reward. The gift of humility goblin is, i believe the preferred method.

This is absolutely a problem. With Covid raging, I am sure it is a bigger problem now. There are a lot of young people home and out of work that have more free time to circle grind to try and get that elusive 5%. There will be a rash of vampires and dragons by the end of this, mark my words. (Shoutout to my fellow parents out there who are now barely eaking out time to play, I am with you!)

However, there are better ways to solve this problem. Place limits on the timeline for people to roll a character so that they can't grind up the character to 30 in 1 week and roll (3 active months per award level does not seem crazy). Limit the number of awards a player can roll for in a year. There are other ideas out there. But gating it further behind a mechanic like RPR that is difficult to implement and advancing through is inherently problematic for lots of players RP and playstyle choices is not the right decision.

[Draco]

However, there are better ways to solve this problem. Place limits on the timeline for people to roll a character so that they can't grind up the character to 30 in 1 week and roll (3 active months per award level does not seem crazy). Limit the number of awards a player can roll for in a year. There are other ideas out there. But gating it further behind a mechanic like RPR that is difficult to implement and advancing through is inherently problematic for lots of players RP and playstyle choices is not the right decision.

That's why it's in feedback, I don't know enough about certain things only that this is a pretty big issue that spits in the face of what I thought Arelith was meant to be. These could be good suggestions too as I thought getting RPR 20 wasn't as difficult.

[Aren]

Another one of these “I dont like how other people play the game, please make them play like me”-threads.

I rarely, if ever, see one of the “power-gamers” tell others how to play the game. I’m beginning think they aren’t the problem.

[NauVaseline]

Another one of these “I dont like how other people play the game, please make them play like me”-threads.

I rarely, if ever, see one of the “power-gamers” tell others how to play the game. I’m beginning think they aren’t the problem.

It's very ironicfor the players who post comments like OP w/out realizing how elitist they're actually being

[Draco]

Another one of these “I dont like how other people play the game, please make them play like me”-threads.

I rarely, if ever, see one of the “power-gamers” tell others how to play the game. I’m beginning think they aren’t the problem.

It's very ironicfor the players who post comments like OP w/out realizing how elitist they're actually being

I'd say the same of people thinking they're giving constructive criticism when all they actually do is criticize.

It is an exploitable system, I've no doubts about that. This is a roleplay server, I believe I'm right in this as well. So how is there any justification in making a character for the sole purpose of deleting it so you can play what you actually want? RPR 30 probably won't work, ok, what other suggestions are there for a clearly broken system. Get rid of the gift of humility? DMs hold players with the gift of humility to higher scrutiny? Some other idea entirely?

[In Sorrow We Trust]

I know a lot of great roleplayers that stick to their character for years, generate a lot of RP, and then roll after their character's story pans out only to get ... of all things... a minor reward.

The epitome of sad trombone.

[Draco]

I know a lot of great roleplayers that stick to their character for years, generate a lot of RP, and then roll after their character's story pans out only to get ... of all things... a minor reward.

Maybe that's something that can be taken into account when making a roll, how long this character existed on Arelith.

[Aeralad]

I just got an idea.

How about rewards for RP?

Maybe not exp or gold or resources or abilities, or whatever other in game thing. What about using the rewards as rewards for actual noticeable RP situations?

That way if people want rewards, they don't only have to circle grind, they can also RP.

I know it's too simple hehe.

[NauVaseline]

So how is there any justification in making a character for the sole purpose of deleting it so you can play what you actually want?

Who cares? mind your own roleplay
just because you want to build sand castles and someone else wants to build sand army men doesn't mean you have to pee all over the sandbox to make sure there's only room for a sand castle

[xanrael]

Even if you completely removed the epic sacrifice system, the type people to grind 24/7 will still do it to reach epic levels and a portion will quickly grow bored and repeat.

[Wuthering]

I think the epic sacrifice system was created to encourage deletion of bored epics who stick around long past their due date. I don’t think encouraging cycling through disposable characters to farm rewards was even considered at the time.

Likewise the gift of humility was created long before the writs system and back when ECL really made a difference because you were grinding from day 1 and every point of XP mattered. I think it was intended as something of a challenge for experienced players to play weaker characters.

Neither of these have to exist in their current form forever. Epic sacrifices could be tweaked to discourage grinding disposable characters. The gift of humility may be an outdated concept that should be removed like other outdated concepts.

I think it’s fair to question the systems themselves and that doesn’t mean you’re hating on everyone who grinds for rewards. People are always going to make the most of the tools and system available to them and you can’t begrudge them for doing so. There's a way to question whether the mechanics are ideal without demonizing other players.

[Aren]

Another one of these “I dont like how other people play the game, please make them play like me”-threads.

I rarely, if ever, see one of the “power-gamers” tell others how to play the game. I’m beginning think they aren’t the problem.

It's very ironicfor the players who post comments like OP w/out realizing how elitist they're actually being

I'd say the same of people thinking they're giving constructive criticism when all they actually do is criticize.

It is an exploitable system, I've no doubts about that. This is a roleplay server, I believe I'm right in this as well. So how is there any justification in making a character for the sole purpose of deleting it so you can play what you actually want? RPR 30 probably won't work, ok, what other suggestions are there for a clearly broken system. Get rid of the gift of humility? DMs hold players with the gift of humility to higher scrutiny? Some other idea entirely?

Maybe criticism is warranted because the suggestion paints a substantial part of the playerbase as somehow detrimental to the server?

How is it an exploitable system? What's the exploit?
I can reveal that I personally have put in a lot of effort, and leveled countless characters to 26+ only to roll them afterwards. And I have fun while doing it.
It gives me something to do while in between -real- characters, while staying in touch with OOC friends on Discord or IG. I do not this to get an EPIC reward, because in my humble opinion they aren't worth the hassle anymore, but because it's nice to have options available to me if I suddenly get a surge of inspiration for a new character.
And I might add that personally, ALL my humility characters: have stayed in character at all times, have been aiding everyone they've come across gaining that level that they've been working on, generating RP while crafting items for other players ect. (The same can be said for ANY other player I know who have done this by the way - because all of them are stellar roleplayers). Those people with 30 RPR? They also circle grind and roll characters. Not every character needs a long thought out story arc.
Think of my humility character as an advanced NPC in YOUR story. They are nothing more, and nothing less.

I do believe that the system is flawed, and somewhat skewed towards those people who can play more hours than the average player. But that's how it is in almost every other online game. Instead of punishing those who put in effort to "live fast and die young", perhaps they could add a feature to also take character age into account. As in, the longer your character has existed the higher a chance for a better reward? One does not rule out the other. And if some sort of compromise does not satisfy you, then I suspect you to have ulterior motives for this suggestion.

[magistrasa]

I was going to say something meaningful and heartfelt to this but then I realized the premise of this thread is so silly that it doesn't really warrant a response. I'll just say it took me over 2 years of serious, compelling roleplay that basically consumed my every waking moment (to kind of an unhealthy degree), and that given both the parameters of 30 RPR, and the limitations of the DM team who can't be everywhere all the time, I imagine most people who play on this server are never going to get to 30. And I think most people who have been around for a while already understand that.

If there's any complaint to have with the award system, it's this: I've been playing on this server for years and I've never earned higher than a normal reward, no matter if I go out at level 26 or 30, no matter if I die off with 1 million or 5 million gold. Please god make it easier for people to earn awards. Or at least make it easier for me to earn awards. I've suffered for so long. If I get another normal I'm going to -delete IRL.

[Draco]

If there's any complaint to have with the award system, it's this: I've been playing on this server for years and I've never earned higher than a normal reward, no matter if I go out at level 26 or 30, no matter if I die off with 1 million or 5 million gold. Please god make it easier for people to earn awards. Or at least make it easier for me to earn awards. I've suffered for so long. If I get another normal I'm going to -delete IRL.

If anything my point is being proven with these people that put forth all this RP effort to get little no to reward bonus, versus. "Powerbuild, grind grind grind, get my reward, now I can finally play". I personally scrapped the idea of RPR 30 since the OP since apparently RPR 20 is more difficult than I was led to believe (at least so has been said). The reward system should definitely take into account just how new the character is. Not how much XP they were able to grind.

[Cataclysm of Iron]

Honestly, OP, I broadly agree - I would prefer awards to be rarer and gated at a higher level, and for RPR to carry more weight.

But I'd really say just do a bit of a forum search and call it quits. This conversation happens every month or two, it's basically the same conversations, the same kinds of people think the same things, everyone gets upset, and it gets locked.

[Aren]

If there's any complaint to have with the award system, it's this: I've been playing on this server for years and I've never earned higher than a normal reward, no matter if I go out at level 26 or 30, no matter if I die off with 1 million or 5 million gold. Please god make it easier for people to earn awards. Or at least make it easier for me to earn awards. I've suffered for so long. If I get another normal I'm going to -delete IRL.

If anything my point is being proven with these people that put forth all this RP effort to get little no to reward bonus, versus. "Powerbuild, grind grind grind, get my reward, now I can finally play". I personally scrapped the idea of RPR 30 since the OP since apparently RPR 20 is more difficult than I was led to believe (at least so has been said). The reward system should definitely take into account just how new the character is. Not how much XP they were able to grind.

RPR says nothing about your ability to roleplay. It's a subjective evaluation that each DM makes when rewarding/punishing people for what they consider stellar/bad roleplay. (http://wiki.arelith.com/Role_Play_Bonus)

It's overall a minor boon, and I personally believe people place way to much value on it. Also, I got my RPR 20 in less than a week after starting on Arelith. Just stay in character at all times. If you are not noticed, ask a DM to observe your roleplay. If you fulfill the requirements, you should be eligible for a RPR raise. That's what I did.

[Void]

If there's any complaint to have with the award system, it's this: I've been playing on this server for years and I've never earned higher than a normal reward, no matter if I go out at level 26 or 30, no matter if I die off with 1 million or 5 million gold. Please god make it easier for people to earn awards. Or at least make it easier for me to earn awards. I've suffered for so long. If I get another normal I'm going to -delete IRL.

If anything my point is being proven with these people that put forth all this RP effort to get little no to reward bonus, versus. "Powerbuild, grind grind grind, get my reward, now I can finally play". I personally scrapped the idea of RPR 30 since the OP since apparently RPR 20 is more difficult than I was led to believe (at least so has been said). The reward system should definitely take into account just how new the character is. Not how much XP they were able to grind.

We had this discussion before, and the conclusion was that there isn't a good alternative for what we have now.

Also, in my opinion, somebody else's motivation shouldnt' matter to you. Only their character. It is also not good to assume that people who grind or powerbuild cannot make a character you'll enjoy interacting with.