One-way Skal

[Gouge Away]

To be fair the FL was a server with really experimental rules and a style of play that required relearning the game. It was also Mithreas’ pet project IIRC and once he moved on there was no future for it. I don't think it can be used as proof of anything... It was a novelty that had its moment a decade ago and that was that.

I actually think there could be a separate Arelith server disconnected from the island and its events (like, set in Thay or Mulhorand or something) but using familiar mechanics so you can just jump right in and start playing. We’d need a much bigger population for that probably and I don’t think Skal is the place regardless, but it’d be really cool to start fresh with Arelith gameplay with new characters in a completely different and unrelated setting.

[Xerah]

Yes, the FL server was totally different from Skal; it no different than any other PW on the list. It has limited players because there was 0 connection to the main world. If Skal was one way, there would still exist a connection.

[Morgy]

Remove yoinking would be a great first step. It would return that feeling of isolation whilst not making it impossible to return. I believe there should be no way of getting onto Skal during the winter at all.

Whether epics actively involve themselves in plots or not, their presence DOES influence the actions of lower players. I can say this as someone who has levelled multiple evil characters that have ended up being far more covert than I’d’ve liked, purely because I’ve seen the same ancient epics (living on or visiting Skal) lurking around the middle of town.

On the occasions where no epics have been loitering, I’ve found it a great place to take your first evil steps and generate some future rivalries that can carry on into Arelith itself.

An MoD really just encourages someone to stay put in Skal where they will be unlikely to ever lose lives.
Ideally, players take more initiative and would move on once they hit 21 or so. However, given the ease and openness of RP there, the place has a strong draw stay (I have struggled with this myself).

I think multiple prompts appearing over your PC when logging in after a certain level, reminding you it is a lower level area, might trigger some folk to move along. Perhaps a script to prevent over-21s being on Skal during the WINTER months would be useful? The limit being 21 would give people ample time to RP their moving on through one of the numerous paths out of Skal during winter.

[AstralUniverse]

An MoD really just encourages someone to stay put in Skal where they will be unlikely to ever lose lives.
Ideally, players take more initiative and would move on once they hit 21 or so. However, given the ease and openness of RP there, the place has a strong draw stay (I have struggled with this myself).

I agree with this in 100%.

Were someone to stay in Skal into epics and continue their business/plot on Skal, finish it at some point, decide to leave Skal.... and... "wait, if I leave Skal now I'll be a MoD pc in a sea of lvl 30s. I best just stay on Skal forever where I got a shop, big house with tons of fixtures newbies make me and I cannot be killed, and my character is a god here" and this MoD ends up encouraging people not to leave.

[Hobojoe]

Were someone to stay in Skal into epics and continue their business/plot on Skal, finish it at some point, decide to leave Skal.... and... "wait, if I leave Skal now I'll be a MoD pc in a sea of lvl 30s. I best just stay on Skal forever where I got a shop, big house with tons of fixtures newbies make me and I cannot be killed, and my character is a god here" and this MoD ends up encouraging people not to leave.

I think just banning Epic characters from owning properties would be a better fix than the MoD. Some people have no intention of ever leaving Skal, they'd rather leave the server entirely than make that boat trip, which is fine if that's your thing. Something does need to be put in place to prevent them forever hogging Skals very limited resources and keeping the village from feeling so static though.

[matheusgraef]

Yeah. It seems like this thread boiled down to:

- Epics can't own property.
- Yoinking doesn't work in Skal.

Fixes most problems, culls the epic population.

Updated the OP.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I think a better solution would be just better policing epic involvement getting our of hand for stuff like events, etc; and not having MoD to begin with. Or the option to lose the MoD with promise of 'never coming back' kind of deal.

[TimeAdept]

The real solution is to better integrate Skal into Arelith "society' and stop trying to force it to be this weird transient noob island separate server of existence, where no one can take anything seriously and everyone's just waiting for a thaw - both because they need new content to level and because the looming DM threat of character permadeath punishment looms if they dare to stay.

[Ork]

I like Skal, but I do agree that rules pertaining to Skal and Skal alone doesn't help with new players understanding the server better. Give Skal epic content. Frost Giant Kingdom thaws from within the permaice when?

[Skibbles]

I keep forgetting Skal exists and I wish I didn't. I don't know what that means but I'm putting it out there.

XXX makes a good point I think, in that total separation might seem like a good idea but have effects we've seen before albeit under some different conditions.

That being said I see a lot of really cool ideas here if it's crucial to Skal's life that it be low level.

On one hand it sounds cool to force a level cap and no-exception one way travel, but on the other I like Matheus' idea of what is essentially an annual job fair to keep the Arelith vibe/connection but also tempt characters away to the mainland.

Someone mentioned earlier that having shops time out if they aren't moving enough product as well. Please don't let this be a Skal only mechanic if it becomes a thing. Every shop on Arelith could really use something like that (looking at you eventide heavy flail 100k shops).

[Anime Sword Fighter]

I like Skal, but I do agree that rules pertaining to Skal and Skal alone doesn't help with new players understanding the server better. Give Skal epic content. Frost Giant Kingdom thaws from within the permaice when?

i would love for there to in the future be an extremely epic content path that separates skal and arelith that is an actual way of two way travel, but there is a real risk of your party dying to do it even past level 30

[NauVaseline]

Add a gateway to Skal in Paush's lair

[Gouge Away]

Epic content would be cool.

I like the idea of a different setting that retains Arelith mechanics and playerbase and you're only able to go back and forth on special occasions. I think one reason people stay on Skal is it's just different RP... more inclusive (that is to say, people don't immediately exclude you because of racial, religious etc clashes, they'll instead discuss and debate) and more like traditional D&D where you have mixed parties of folks who don't necessarily get along but still team up to solve a problem... that almost never happens on Arelith, you're pigeonholed into your own tribe and may associate with your tribe's pals but otherwise the RP tends to be hostile if there's any reason to be.

I've been on characters who were loathe to leave Skal because once they sail to Arelith you can pretty much predict where things would go. If you're a hin you'll be pushed towards Bendir and Bendir rarely changes so if you played a hin before you know what to expect and you'll most likely be seeing a lot of repeating patterns, on Skal there's a lot more tolerance for a hin who does their own thing.

I guess that's what I like about Skal most.. it feels a lot closer to D&D roots of everyone is an adventurer first and whatever else they are second. Arelith proper excels at a lot of other things including really complex politics but it feels a long way from classic D&D.

[AstralUniverse]

I think one reason people stay on Skal is it's just different RP... more inclusive (that is to say, people don't immediately exclude you because of racial, religious etc clashes, they'll instead discuss and debate) and more like traditional D&D where you have mixed parties of folks who don't necessarily get along but still team up to solve a problem...

That's a big part of Skal's charm for me. Skal always felt for me a lot more like a small pnp group vibe. Where people who wouldnt necessarily get along raise to the occasion for something bigger than themselves and end up friends like in a lot of good stories, movies, etc.

[Ork]

The hardest part about Skal is leaving. I do sympathize with characters that out-level Skal's content. Once you leave, unless you had forged a lot of persistent bonds with people already on Arelith, you're bereft of much purpose unless you work really hard to make it.

All my Skal characters peak on Skal, and never really recover from leaving. Don't know if it's the lack of connections or that Arelith proper doesn't fill the same niche that Skal did for the character.

[AstralUniverse]

The hardest part about Skal is leaving. I do sympathize with characters that out-level Skal's content. Once you leave, unless you had forged a lot of persistent bonds with people already on Arelith, you're bereft of much purpose unless you work really hard to make it.

All my Skal characters peak on Skal, and never really recover from leaving. Don't know if it's the lack of connections or that Arelith proper doesn't fill the same niche that Skal did for the character.

Over several characters, I left Skal and either the character immediately got shelved or immediately got pulled into a plot and joined a faction. It was almost down to luck + the type of character (social? evil? lawful? etc).

The big difference is the party availability. When I make a character, I make a lot of social connections really fast by simply travelling with different people every day. This is easier to do in lower levels because there are more people in level range. I find that it becomes harder around lvl 15+ in just about all hubs. So if my character made all their social connections in Skal and is suddenly alone at lvl 15 on an island where now the fewer people to find in my lvl range are also scattered around several different hubs with racial division. At that point it is almost a must to join a faction. And, if I werent to begin in Skal, and make all my social connections early on already on Arelith, this is an entirely different picture. So yes, the difficulty in leaving Skal has to do with social connections, at least for me.

[Nitro]

Skal as it is right now doesn't really "gel" with the mainland server. The culture is completely different, going from the lighter atmosphere of Skal to the far more intense atmosphere of the mainland can be a very big culture shock to new players who thought they knew what the server was about only to find out it's the near exact opposite, I've met with several such characters who just went right back to Skal as soon as they could and stayed there because that's what they knew and wanted.

I honestly think that skal should be tied more closely to the mainland if it's going to be part of the same PW, either epic content, more free travel both to and from or some other means of encouraging people to move to, from and through skal to reduce the differentiation between it and the mainland.

That or just separating it entirely as a separate PW.

[The GrumpyCat]

Yeah. It seems like this thread boiled down to:

- Epics can't own property.
- Yoinking doesn't work in Skal.

Fixes most problems, culls the epic population.

Updated the OP.

For what it's worth, I really agree with the first point. And that may be a rule we put in place soon - if there's no easy mechanical fix.

The second point I'm not sure how it'd be implemented? Maybe just make all Skal areas 'No teleport'. I mean it doesn't have much in the way of portals there anyway. Might suggest it to the team.

[Nevrus]

There's the problem of the jetty.

It's necessary so if people wind up in Skal (sometimes resurrecting does it) they can leave without waiting in winter. If the area becomes no teleport the portal source doesn't work.

[Mattamue]

No sure what settings make it possible, but I've seen a portal source work in a no teleport area.

[Gouge Away]

Could Skal just be its own server, one way out, no return? Maybe even with a server level cap of 16 or 20 so if you want to level to epics you have to go Arelith... If not, you can stick around and since you can't level further you don't have to take an MOD.

Don't allow sailing or yoinking to the island, but do allow DM intervention for bringing people in for events or for misplaced characters that need to be moved.

Distant Shores server could then absorb some Surface areas perhaps... Sencliff, etc... Which would be really nice to lower its population on these weekend afternoons where the Surface lag is impossible.

Yes that would be 5 servers which isn't ideal but hey, once you're at 4 what's one more.

[Wings of Peace]

I think the problem with making Skal entirely one way is that there are unique items that can only be found on Skal so for people in the know it'd be the Sencliff problem where people start there exclusively to chase those things and then leave. It seems like a scaling over time debuff/"curse" (ticking maybe once every irl hour or so) for characters above x level that only clears when you leave the island would make a lot more sense (with a massive amount of bonus ticks if you kill a player on the island) as far as discouraging high level stay-behinds.