New Feats for Str Builds - Feedback Needed

[Tarkus the dog]

Big fan of the heal-on-hit options for STR rangers. Should absolutely look to design the class in that direction, I believe.

Action surge - might be too strong if it stacks with haste.

I thought this way as well but then remembered that barbs get the same ability which can last longer and also deals 2d6 crit damage on top of that, so that's one thing to think about.

[Arigard]

I feel like an option like precision strikes that offers a counter to improved expertise, with improved AB but with reduced damage would go a long way to help the AC creep meta. I don't see why it couldn't be offered to any build (Dex/str whatever) as a feat structure like I.E is (but that is exclusive, so you couldn't have both I.E and P.S on at same time). Weapon master builds in the current meta (WM/Barb etc) simply have too many feats already to invest in another two on top (or they need to drop epics which they need for rages/EWF) and almost all builds except maybe a few niche races that get free feats like Minotaurs etc would need to give up something (I.E/Knockdown) etc to swap in those feats. Fighters would have a natural benefit from this with their extra feats anyway, so it preserves class variation etc.

Making builds more durable is great, especially for dungeons (& i think fighters definitely need it), but even with the changes above being discussed none of them really solve the issue of high AC + i.E + epic dodge that makes a whole host of builds almost completely unhittable whether you are a barb/ranger/wm/fighter/whatever the strength build etc.

Improved expertise is one of the main reasons behind this, so i don't see why there can't be an equivalent to improved expertise that increases offense at the expense of damage (-5 and -10 perhaps? or maybe at a percentage reduction) that sits as a natural counter to expertise. You can also make it so it doesn't stack with true strike etc.

[jomonog]

I thought this way as well but then remembered that barbs get the same ability which can last longer and also deals 2d6 crit damage on top of that, so that's one thing to think about.

Thats true, but barbs cant dip monk which i reckon would make this one a bit dangerous coz you get maybe 11 apr on a strength build. Would have to be some sort of alpha strike fighter WM monk build. Maybe so niche it wouldnt be a huge issue

[Tarkus the dog]

I thought this way as well but then remembered that barbs get the same ability which can last longer and also deals 2d6 crit damage on top of that, so that's one thing to think about.

Thats true, but barbs cant dip monk which i reckon would make this one a bit dangerous coz you get maybe 11 apr on a strength build. Would have to be some sort of alpha strike fighter WM monk build. Maybe so niche it wouldnt be a huge issue

Well, monk doesn't synergize well with high fighter for similar reasons it doesn't synergize with barbarian, especially after these feats and their requirements are introduced.

[Ordo.Lupus]

Making builds more durable is great, especially for dungeons (& i think fighters definitely need it), but even with the changes above being discussed none of them really solve the issue of high AC + i.E + epic dodge that makes a whole host of builds almost completely unhittable whether you are a barb/ranger/wm/fighter/whatever the strength build etc.

Improved expertise is one of the main reasons behind this, so i don't see why there can't be an equivalent to improved expertise that increases offense at the expense of damage (-5 and -10 perhaps? or maybe at a percentage reduction) that sits as a natural counter to expertise. You can also make it so it doesn't stack with true strike etc.

IMO epic dodge is broken and should not be allowed as it favours dex builds, just like dev.crit favours str crit builds. Or it should at least have some kind of cool down.

[Scylon]

IMO epic dodge is broken and should not be allowed as it favours dex builds, just like dev.crit favours str crit builds. Or it should at least have some kind of cool down.

Or allow dev crits in a different form? on hit kill is a bit OP, but surely we can bring it back doing something else useful?

Maybe if you have it it will do an extra X damage that can be multiplied, and will bypass epic dodge.

[jomonog]

I would agree epic dodge is broken like devastating critic if it auto deleted opponents when they missed

[Zaphiel]

It can be seen how strong epic dodge is. And another issue I see with it is, it become too common place. It was only available to rogue and shadowdancer. Now it is available on high level monk and swashbuckler as well. And it pretty much makes one unkillable when they hit to 60AC and above. I didn't include any bonus damage sources though (like weapon spec, or raging barb etc). Numbers can get a bit higher with them but point is the significant dpr decrease. Another thing with epic dodge is, it is only against one target. So, It can be OP in 1v1, but it may not be OP in a group battle.

Code: Select all

ROUNDS                             500000

WEAPON NAME                        M. Damask Falchion (Keen)
WEAPON DAMAGE                      2d4
WEAPON DAMAGE BONUS                6
WEAPON THREAT RANGE                12
WEAPON CRITICAL HIT MULTIPLIER     2
WEAPON OTHER DAMAGE BONUSES        
    * DIVINE                       1d6
    * POSITIVE                     1d6

CHARACTER AB                       49
CHARACTER TOTAL APR                5
CHARACTER OVERWHELMING CRITICAL    No

TARGET DEFENSIVE ESSENCE           5
TARGET CONCEALMENT                 50% (25.00% w/ blind fight)
TARGET EPIC DODGE                  Yes
TARGET CRITICAL IMMUNITY           No

-=[RESULTS]=-                     

TARGET AC                          45
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          1060970 (42.44%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         1439030 (57.56%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            600966 (41.76% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   497163 (34.55% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 492580 (46.43%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       19905938
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                17089169 (85.85%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 2816769 (14.15% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           39.81 (58.54 when target don't have epic dodge)
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             18.76
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              16.11
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               2.65 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          50
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          800818 (32.03%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         1699182 (67.97%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            599919 (35.31% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   491596 (28.93% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 350734 (43.80%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       14688501
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                12666184 (86.23%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 2022317 (13.77% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           29.38  (47.88 when target don't have epic dodge)
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             18.34
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              15.82
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               2.53 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          55
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          418035 (16.72%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         2081965 (83.28%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            600346 (28.84% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   455518 (21.88% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 167607 (40.09%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       7418617
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                6443198 (86.85%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 975419 (13.15% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           14.84 (31.51 when target don't have epic dodge)
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             17.75
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              15.41
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               2.33 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          60
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          157376 (6.30%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         2342624 (93.70%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            599936 (25.61% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   355615 (15.18% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 54797 (34.82%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       2660762
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                2333747 (87.71%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 327015 (12.29% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           5.32 (17.90 when target don't have epic dodge)
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             16.91
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              14.83
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               2.08 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          65
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          38833 (1.55%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         2461167 (98.45%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            600274 (24.39% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   207742 (8.44% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 6569 (16.92%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       545497
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                499336 (91.54%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 46161 (8.46% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           1.09 (7.13 when target don't have epic dodge)
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             14.05
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              12.86
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               1.19 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          70
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          7002 (0.28%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         2492998 (99.72%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            599895 (24.06% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   88111 (3.53% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 0 (0.00%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       79150
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                76783 (97.01%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 2367 (2.99% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           0.16 (2.14 when target don't have epic dodge)
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             11.30
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              10.97
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               0.34 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

[Drowboy]

well here's hoping nobody adds a class that buffs e-dodge classes

That said, has anyone theory'd out a 20/7/3 with the new fighter feats? I got stuck around the point when I noticed you'd probably end up swapping epic feats for them, unless you delay WM itself into epics, or at least partially.

[jomonog]

Dont want to derail the thread with a discussion about epic dodge but i dont agree that its really that prevalent outside of rogue or SD. Heavy swash dex builds can get it but I havent seen many of those out there I think because damage is relatively lacklustre and swash seems better done as strength based. The only monk builds that get it is the heavy/pure monk which also had 6 ac dropped from it first to balance letting in qualify for e-dodge. Assassin technically as well but theyre hardly in the meta.

I believe it models out roughly in most ab/ac ranges to about the equivalent of +5ac against a single target which no doubt is a very nice feat but as you say not as good against multiple opponents. Its also nullified to an extent by kd and other combat feats.

[Arigard]

The numbers Zaphiel provide makes it very clear how obscene the chance is. 0.28% to hit per round versus a target with epic dodge that you can only hit on natural 20, is insane.

I believe it models out roughly in most ab/ac ranges to about the equivalent of +5ac against a single target which no doubt is a very nice feat but as you say not as good against multiple opponents. Its also nullified to an extent by kd and other combat feats.

It's not +5ac, it's the complete removal of the first successful attack of every round. That means if you can't hit someone naturally on your first attack (which most str based builds can't vs dex with edodge and I.E) and roll a natural 20 elsewhere, it will negate it. Most well built dex chars will require you to roll two natural 20's every round.

It's also a myth imo that it is less useful in group PvP. If you are fighting 2-3 opponents and they all require 20 rolls to hit you, epic dodge still comes out on top, because it completely nullifies one of those 20 rolls. Without epic dodge, all three of those rolls would have threatened to hit. Epic dodge counts towards your current opponent, or your most recent attacker. Which means as soon as you create a character that pushes its AC to the point the majority of builds require 20's to hit (72-75ac), it becomes immeasurably better than having simply 5 more AC on top because you are still adding the chance to remove one attack that would otherwise have hit.

Once your AC exceeds the 20 roll ability of your opponent, whether you have 5 ac more is irrelevant. If someone, or a group of people cannot hit you at all, epic dodge puts you in a better position every single time. When all opponents can hit you within say a 15-20 range? Sure epic dodge isn't as useful as the AC, but on Arelith it's possible to hit such a high AC on various builds that epic dodge on top becomes more useful than the extra AC. It's real power comes if you can make characters that can hit a higher AC than is hittable by the majority of melee builds (which is possible on a reasonable amount of builds right now).

Keep in mind also that just because you can hit someone on your first attack on say an 18-20, doesn't mean you will. So if you miss the first attack and then roll a 20 on the second, epic dodge still steps in. Likewise, if you do roll high on your first attack, it steps in regardless, now still requiring you to roll double 20s. So versus one attacker you only need 15 more ac than their max AB to still require them to roll double 20's every round. 16 more to remove all chance of critical hits.

As Zaphiel has pointed out through his stats rolling two nat 20's on a dex build you need 20's to hit, with edodge and getting through their concealment has a chance of 0.28% per round, even with 5 APR, two at your highest AB. That's obscene.

Knockdown in reality does not help the base chance at all, because you roll lower on the knockdown roll at a -4. So you have A) less chance of hitting to begin with and B) still require two 20's. You won't be hitting on your highest ab, so your knockdown roll will be immediately lower allowing for easier defense against it also. If you are somehow lucky enough to get the knockdown? Sure. But the chances of doing that are no different to the chances of actually hitting to start with, which is still incredibly low.

Epic dodge requires: 30 tumble 25 Dex

13 rogue levels,
10 shadowdancer levels,
10 rogue and 5 shadowdancer levels,
9 monk and 10 rogue levels, or
9 monk and 5 shadowdancer levels.

And with arelith changes

Heavy swashbuckler
18 monk.

There's plenty of ways to do it & combinations, especially with the variation in dex builds now available on arelith and the bottom line is really that there is no strength equivalent epic feats that match epic dodge. Dev crit has been removed for good reason, but epic dodge is from a defensive stand point as powerful.

[Nobs]

Perhaps add some charge feat aswel to str toons so they can get into melee nice and fast to swing that big damage around?

[jomonog]

It models out to about 5AC is all im saying (sometimes a little more). Zaphiel has a spreadsheet by the looks that can crunch the numbers. With respect, the hit percentages youre quoting dont really mean anything unless you compare the chance of hitting the same character with and without epic dodge.

The issue with KD is that even an unsuccessful attempt stops e-dodge from working for the rest of the attack round (which I think is probably a bug).

But anyway, I support the approach of buffing strength builds with new feats, I dont think the proposal is to further nerf dex builds (at least i hope not given the last round of nerfs in my opinion strike a reasonable balance)

[Zaphiel]

It models out to about 5AC is all im saying (sometimes a little more). Zaphiel has a spreadsheet by the looks that can crunch the numbers. With respect, the hit percentages youre quoting dont really mean anything unless you compare the chance of hitting the same character with and without epic dodge.

The issue with KD is that even an unsuccessful attempt stops e-dodge from working for the rest of the attack round (which I think is probably a bug).

But anyway, I support the approach of buffing strength builds with new feats, I dont think the proposal is to further nerf dex builds (at least i hope not given the last round of nerfs in my opinion strike a reasonable balance)

Numbers without epic dodge:

Code: Select all

ROUNDS                             500000

WEAPON NAME                        M. Damask Falchion (Keen)
WEAPON DAMAGE                      2d4
WEAPON DAMAGE BONUS                6
WEAPON THREAT RANGE                12
WEAPON CRITICAL HIT MULTIPLIER     2
WEAPON OTHER DAMAGE BONUSES        
    * DIVINE                       1d6
    * POSITIVE                     1d6

CHARACTER AB                       49
CHARACTER TOTAL APR                5
CHARACTER OVERWHELMING CRITICAL    No

TARGET DEFENSIVE ESSENCE           5
TARGET CONCEALMENT                 50% (25.00% w/ blind fight)
TARGET EPIC DODGE                  No
TARGET CRITICAL IMMUNITY           No

-=[RESULTS]=-                     

TARGET AC                          45
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          1558766 (62.35%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         941234 (37.65%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            598704 (63.61% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   0 (0.00% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 725652 (46.55%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       29270471
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                25126658 (85.84%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 4143813 (14.16% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           58.54
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             18.78
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              16.12
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               2.66 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          50
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          1292040 (51.68%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         1207960 (48.32%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            599881 (49.66% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   0 (0.00% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 580889 (44.96%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       23938000
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                20604479 (86.07%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 3333521 (13.93% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           47.88
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             18.53
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              15.95
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               2.58 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          55
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          873432 (34.94%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         1626568 (65.06%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            599997 (36.89% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   0 (0.00% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 365806 (41.88%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       15753543
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                13633030 (86.54%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 2120513 (13.46% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           31.51
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             18.04
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              15.61
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               2.43 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          60
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          513886 (20.56%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         1986114 (79.44%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            598157 (30.12% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   0 (0.00% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 195638 (38.07%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       8951671
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                7803267 (87.17%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 1148404 (12.83% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           17.90
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             17.42
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              15.18
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               2.23 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          65
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          247296 (9.89%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         2252704 (90.11%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            600065 (26.64% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   0 (0.00% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 47614 (19.25%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       3564844
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                3245333 (91.04%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 319511 (8.96% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           7.13
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             14.42
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              13.12
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               1.29 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

TARGET AC                          70
TOTAL ATTACK                       2500000
TOTAL HIT                          94630 (3.79%  of total attacks)
TOTAL MISS                         2405370 (96.21%  of total attacks)
    * CONCEALED ATTACKS            600235 (24.95% of total misses)
    * EPIC DODGE                   0 (0.00% of total misses)
TOTAL CRITICAL HIT                 0 (0.00%  of total hits)

TOTAL DAMAGE                       1072410
TOTAL WEAPON DAMAGE                1040708 (97.04%  of total damage)
TOTAL OTHER DAMAGE                 31702 (2.96% of total damage)

AVARAGE DAMAGE PER ROUND           2.14
AVARAGE DAMAGE PER HIT             11.33
AVARAGE WEAPON DAMAGE              11.00
AVARAGE OTHER DAMAGE               0.34 (avg. of all other damage types)

==================================================

Drastic hit percentage increase can easily be seen when compared with epic dodge version.

[jomonog]

But run it without epic dodge and +5 ac instead - i think you get about the same drop

Edit - you can see it from the above spreadsheets:

Target AC 45 with e-dodge: Average damage 39.81
Target AC 50 no e-dodge: Average damage 47.88

Target AC 50 with e-dodge: Average damage 29.38
Target AC 55 no e-dodge: Average damage 31.51

Target AC 60 with e-dodge: Average damage 5.32
Target AC 65 no e-dodge: Average damage 7.13

So, its worth around 5AC (or a bit more for the lower ac example) most of the time against a single target. Keep it in perspective. Its not devastating crit.

[preggy]

An interesting Idea.

Savage Charge
Gain X movement speed, +X Damage and +X AB for Y rounds or until your first hit lands, after which is lasts for the remainder of that round
If you did not use your first round to attack the first hit also delivers a knockdown attempt (Without -ab pentalties normally associated with a KD attempt)

Disciplined Charge
SImilar, to the above but instead grants freedom of movement and immunity to mind spells for the duration (but does not remove existing effects) instead of a KD

Feats operate on a cooldown, all Charge feats operate on the same shared cooldown.
Owning multiple feats potentially allows multiple effects to play out in the same charge.

Could allow the +AB/Damage to build up over the duration of the effect (I,e, Round 1+2ab/damage, round 2 +4ab/damage etc and hitting a hard cap and staying at that hard cap for a few rounds before the effect ends.

[Arigard]

But run it without epic dodge and +5 ac instead - i think you get about the same drop

A 49ab character hitting a 70ac or 75ac character will have exactly the same results. Every attack requires a 20 regardless. It's a 4% chance rounded up per round versus 0.3%. It's not the same as having 5 more ac.

So, its worth around 5AC (or a bit more for the lower ac example) most of the time against a single target. Keep it in perspective. Its not devastating crit.

And dev crit sucks on a build with 35ab. Builds with 70+ac and epic dodge are everywhere on the server.

[preggy]

Indeed - infact its much stronger since it can cancel out a 20 roll, which is only otherwise possible through consealment.

The point is that once you begin getting into AC's where the majority of hits are only coming from natural 20's or other exceptionally high rolls, its automatically cancelled out, where "Just adding +5ac" only cancels out other high rolls, not the 20.

But yes, Epic dodge isnt really the point of this thread.

[Jagel]

Rangers: (scaling?)massive critical against fav enemies (str/lvl reqs)

AB bonus when dual wielding medium weapons

Add damage types i.e. at specific ranger lvls all weapons gain piercing, bludgeoning and slashing dmg properties. If you stab someone hard enough with a mace it becomes a piercing weapon

[jomonog]

But run it without epic dodge and +5 ac instead - i think you get about the same drop

A 49ab character hitting a 70ac or 75ac character will have exactly the same results. Every attack requires a 20 regardless. It's a 4% chance rounded up per round versus 0.3%. It's not the same as having 5 more ac.

This is of course true, numbers break down when youre outside of AB range. its not like e-dodge is doing that much at that point though because expected damage is already going to be pretty negligible anyway where the attacker needs 20s. Thats not so much an e-dodge issue as an issue of fundamental game design in that nwn has always allowed you to build for AC which can get itself out of striking range. Thats where true strike, kd tricks and other things come into play more though.

[jomonog]

Could allow the +AB/Damage to build up over the duration of the effect (I,e, Round 1+2ab/damage, round 2 +4ab/damage etc and hitting a hard cap and staying at that hard cap for a few rounds before the effect ends.

I really like this idea as a counter to high AC/e-dodge where not much is happening in a fight but i'd suggest scaling damage up to a cap for every miss which resets on a successful hit. Flavour wise its like the strength build is getting madder and madder and swinging harder with each miss. No idea what would be a balanced number

[preggy]

An interesting idea but doesnt really fit with a "Charge" thematic.

I could imagine an "All out attack" sort of feat however which could do something like that.

For X Duration you enter a state of focus, putting all your concentration into striking your opponent, you gain a stacking bonus to AB each time you miss / every Y misses over the duration which resets/loses a set amount of AB each time you land a blow.

As an alternative to the "Gain Damage immunity" feats noted in the main post, I'd also like to consider the following:

"Indominable Stance"
Passive: Gain 5% Physical Damage immunity when wearing heavy armor
Active: For 1 turn, gain an additional 35% Physical Immunity and 20% Elemental Immunity (Not magical) Maybe some temp HP as well? Maybe Turns off other stances (such as expertise)

"Epic Indominable Stance" (Passives stack with Indominable stance, but active replaces/shares cooldown)
Passive: Gain a further 5% Physical damage immunity and 5% Elemental Immunity while wearing armor
Active: for 1 Turn gain an additional 55% Physical immunity and 35% Elemental Immunity.

this is your tanks "Oh poop" button with the idea being "I know i'm going to get hit here no matter what I do, so focus entirely on reducing the impact of incoming damage rather than negating it outright. The stance is not a "Stance" in and of itself, like expertise and would not be removed by downing potions.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Tbh, I was hoping for equivalents of Blinding Speed and Epic Dodge for STRbased characters. Like mstr said, not gated behind classes. I understand balance considerations.

But Epic Dodge, and more so Blinding Speed, are fun epic feats for almost all DEXbased characters.

The suggestions herein are feats for fighters and rangers. Which is fine, I guess. I don't think rangers need anything. Fighters are getting more fighting cookies, which is fine.

edit: the changes to rage seem fun.

[CNS]

Outside of dealing with the can't actually damage certain builds.

It'd be lovely to see something that makes combat a bit more sticky and less slippery. Grapple based or similar.

[Ork]

Man, it just makes you think. It wasn't like this when lore wasn't a thing.