Conflict and the surface.

[The GrumpyCat]

When my characters are in charge of punishing other characters, I tend to go less towards making them do mindless grinding chores and more towards acts of contrition or public humiliation that require them to actually interact with other people.

Hrm. I think 'collect x amount of resources' is... an option to give? IDK some players might prefer that to the rp. So I wouldn't neccesarly say 'oh it's awful never ever ever ever ever do it absolutly 100% of players will always hate it always.'

It's... you know it's an option. But I think perhaps it's a good idea to have a few options for 'punishment' in mind, and see what works...

That said though, I will agree that this can't be just one way. There does come a point when you go, 'If you arn't going to accept any sort of middle ground, we're going to have to do this the hard way.'

I mean this is worth mentioning. Whilst I am absolutly down with the idea that exile should be a last resort, that other punishment options should be offered, that other avenues should be followed, this goes both ways. And if the antagonistic force is not bending or breaking or changing in any ways... well... is it a wonder it gets so popular?

(Also - for other antagonistic forces - do keep in mind this has a knockon effect to other folks. The more you (and I'm sorry to be so blunt) act like an obstinate Snuggybear, refusing to be cowed or dissuaded in any way EXCEPT for an exile, the more pcs will think that all bad guys/banites/cyracists/underdarkers/insert here are, and thus will be less willing to try things. I've already seen hints of it in the replies here. Giving people 'outs' requires trust, and again I fully encourage people to be trusting - but that's harder when it is often abused. Food for thought.)

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

This is way off topic, but since its dominated a few recent posts here I will toss this in-

I always thought a penal legion would work really well on Arelith, especially for the bigger cities. It would require some sort of tweak to the slave collar system to really work, but forcing say a captured sharran or drow or whatever to fight their friends in defense of the city they hate seems like a great story line to me.

That being said I don't think using resource gathering to pay off a debt to society is as bad as some people are making it sound. Sure, its a grind, but its also a rather simple way to represent that you got caught and are now suffering the ic consequences. How fun it is or isn't really is up to the individual, and since there is nothing keeping you from just saying "screw that" and becoming an exile, yeah...I actually think this is perfectly fine.

[Cybren]

I mean to be clear I was making a joke- WillDig and I have talked about this elsewhere so I won't get into IC stuff from like 7 months ago here.

But also isn't there some kind of prisoner collar system that parallels slave collars? Or am I misremembering something someone said second hand?

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I mean to be clear I was making a joke- WillDig and I have talked about this elsewhere so I won't get into IC stuff from like 7 months ago here.

But also isn't there some kind of prisoner collar system that parallels slave collars? Or am I misremembering something someone said second hand?

I didn't mean to sound like I was singling you out, there were a few posts saying it was a bad idea and honestly I just read without paying much attention to who writes what. And if I am being honest while it depends primarily on what my character would do first and foremost, I would probably just say "I'll take the exile please and thank you". My point was more along the lines that if you zoom out and think of the big picture, it's something that doesn't involve pk's but also creates a consequence for in game action. That's never a bad thing. Just to compare it to something else that tends to be a contentious issue, if you do something that makes someone or a group of someone's want to kill you, even if you hate pvp the community has come to terms with the point that you need to deal with the consequences of your actions. This is the same thing.

As for a prisoner collar, If it exists I haven't heard of it but that doesn't mean it doesn't. If it does, great, it should be used more often then it is.

[Gouge Away]

There should be consequences to your actions but I think you have to be mindful of punishing the character and not the player. Gathering hundreds of granite and busywork like that, that doesn’t involve rp and takes hours of boring rl grinding time is sending a “bad player” to the corner for time out. It’s taking away a night of their play time. That kind of thing can be a catalyst for fostering resentment.

Now some players might not mind that punishment at all.. And if you want to be a truly good leader as a player, you have to learn to read the room. It’s difficult but if you can figure out how to punish someone in a way that’s actually fun for them and still feels like their character take their lumps IG that’s one of the signs you’re an exceptional player.

(Just to add, consider one reason a character might act out against a settlement is because the player is frustrated and feels like it’s the only way to get noticed. If someone’s feeling excluded or ignored to begin with then going straight to exile or sending them off on a busywork gathering quest is just pouring salt on the wound. That’s one reason I think it’s always best to at least try to offer punishment that involves active rp in the community)

[Party in the forest at midnight]

On another server, someone I know would have people do hard labour as a punishment, where the guards would accompany the prisoner to go to the mines. I think hard labour as a punishment is fine if it's not "go bring 500 granite" and then send the player off to go grind. Every settlement has mines nearby or resources to collect, you can accompany people as they do this.

I much prefer this to gold fines, which don't take into account the individual character wealth. Sure, 100k isn't much to some characters. But there are others where that's more than they have in the bank.

[andthenthatwasthat]

Every settlement has mines nearby...

Did I hear MIMES are back!? To battle brave Cordorians!

Sorry... Couldn't resist.

[Anime Sword Fighter]

I much prefer this to gold fines, which don't take into account the individual character wealth. Sure, 100k isn't much to some characters. But there are others where that's more than they have in the bank.

everyday arelith shows itself as a true microcosm of the real world at large

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

There should be consequences to your actions but I think you have to be mindful of punishing the character and not the player. Gathering hundreds of granite and busywork like that, that doesn’t involve rp and takes hours of boring rl grinding time is sending a “bad player” to the corner for time out. It’s taking away a night of their play time. That kind of thing can be a catalyst for fostering resentment.

Now some players might not mind that punishment at all.. And if you want to be a truly good leader as a player, you have to learn to read the room. It’s difficult but if you can figure out how to punish someone in a way that’s actually fun for them and still feels like their character take their lumps IG that’s one of the signs you’re an exceptional player.

(Just to add, consider one reason a character might act out against a settlement is because the player is frustrated and feels like it’s the only way to get noticed. If someone’s feeling excluded or ignored to begin with then going straight to exile or sending them off on a busywork gathering quest is just pouring salt on the wound. That’s one reason I think it’s always best to at least try to offer punishment that involves active rp in the community)

Alright, let me do my best to explain the reason why I think this is fine. First, for your character to be punished, you had to do something that got you there in the first place. Pickpocketing, robbing someones chest, pking, whatever. Did you take the time to think about how that might effect the player you are targeting, or did you just do it because its part of the game? I suspect its the latter because no one really likes getting robbed or murdered, so the chance of them being ok with it seems slim to none. So how is this as a punishment not along the same lines of ok? You can find me defending the evil character's right to do there thing all over these forums, and I would be a hypocrite if I turned around and said "but its not ok to punish those who get caught."

As for what's fun or not, you the player are responsible for making the most of your situation. If you choose to grind it out alone, that's on you not the punisher. Now I agree there are some excessive things that people in law enforcement positions shouldn't do, just as there are rules about what you can do as an evil person. Me personally, I think this would be waaaay down on the spectrum of what constitutes excessive however, especially since you can say "Ok just exile me instead then".

As for your part about lashing out because a player is frustrated, I suggest taking it to the dms if you feel that way. The minute you lash out and go out of character because of reasons like this, you become the jerk no matter how guilty the other party is of whatever you are accusing them of doing.

[mjones3]

There should be consequences to your actions but I think you have to be mindful of punishing the character and not the player. Gathering hundreds of granite and busywork like that, that doesn’t involve rp and takes hours of boring rl grinding time is sending a “bad player” to the corner for time out. It’s taking away a night of their play time. That kind of thing can be a catalyst for fostering resentment.

If you want it to be an RP experience rather than a grind you get other people involved. You can easily turn a punishment like this into just hiring someone to do pretty much all of the work for you, other than turning it in so you get the receipt in your name.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

There should be consequences to your actions but I think you have to be mindful of punishing the character and not the player. Gathering hundreds of granite and busywork like that, that doesn’t involve rp and takes hours of boring rl grinding time is sending a “bad player” to the corner for time out. It’s taking away a night of their play time. That kind of thing can be a catalyst for fostering resentment.

Now some players might not mind that punishment at all.. And if you want to be a truly good leader as a player, you have to learn to read the room. It’s difficult but if you can figure out how to punish someone in a way that’s actually fun for them and still feels like their character take their lumps IG that’s one of the signs you’re an exceptional player.

(Just to add, consider one reason a character might act out against a settlement is because the player is frustrated and feels like it’s the only way to get noticed. If someone’s feeling excluded or ignored to begin with then going straight to exile or sending them off on a busywork gathering quest is just pouring salt on the wound. That’s one reason I think it’s always best to at least try to offer punishment that involves active rp in the community)

Alright, let me do my best to explain the reason why I think this is fine. First, for your character to be punished, you had to do something that got you there in the first place. Pickpocketing, robbing someones chest, pking, whatever. Did you take the time to think about how that might effect the player you are targeting, or did you just do it because its part of the game? I suspect its the latter because no one really likes getting robbed or murdered, so the chance of them being ok with it seems slim to none. So how is this as a punishment not along the same lines of ok? You can find me defending the evil character's right to do there thing all over these forums, and I would be a hypocrite if I turned around and said "but its not ok to punish those who get caught."

As for what's fun or not, you the player are responsible for making the most of your situation. If you choose to grind it out alone, that's on you not the punisher. Now I agree there are some excessive things that people in law enforcement positions shouldn't do, just as there are rules about what you can do as an evil person. Me personally, I think this would be waaaay down on the spectrum of what constitutes excessive however, especially since you can say "Ok just exile me instead then".

As for your part about lashing out because a player is frustrated, I suggest taking it to the dms if you feel that way. The minute you lash out and go out of character because of reasons like this, you become the jerk no matter how guilty the other party is of whatever you are accusing them of doing.

Part of the issue and the imbalance between antagonists and protagonists is the responsibility of storytelling.

A murderer, a necromancer, a raider, a slaver - whatever they may be, their actions might be detrimental ICly, but that detriment is usually a trigger for a whole rippling effect of narrative.

Those who are in need of "punishment", in fact, foster a lot of roleplay through that pursuit.

But what roleplay does mining granite foster?

Arelith is hard, because we often have to struggle between what a setting, character, or world would call on us. A sheriff in Bendir might legitimately need to punish the highwayman who has been targeting travelers in his domain, but that highwayman has made Hawk'in go on patrols, created investigations, provided rivalry, had show-downs, and so on and so forth.

So when the highwayman finally comes into your graces to be punished - you what, you turn around around and tell them to go collect X of Y resource?

All the Hawk'in might look on and see this upholds Bendirian law; the wandering paladin might think this is good; everyone will nod and praise the sheriff for doing good work -

but what roleplay have you actually enhanced?

Conflict only ends in Arelith with death or departures (or the very rare corruption/redemption story). Nothing else. Punishment must be seen just as another step in the overall narrative, and while some few players/characters might think mining granite is fine, you really need to step up and deliver something more meaningful and more empowering to your fellow players.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

There should be consequences to your actions but I think you have to be mindful of punishing the character and not the player. Gathering hundreds of granite and busywork like that, that doesn’t involve rp and takes hours of boring rl grinding time is sending a “bad player” to the corner for time out. It’s taking away a night of their play time. That kind of thing can be a catalyst for fostering resentment.

Now some players might not mind that punishment at all.. And if you want to be a truly good leader as a player, you have to learn to read the room. It’s difficult but if you can figure out how to punish someone in a way that’s actually fun for them and still feels like their character take their lumps IG that’s one of the signs you’re an exceptional player.

(Just to add, consider one reason a character might act out against a settlement is because the player is frustrated and feels like it’s the only way to get noticed. If someone’s feeling excluded or ignored to begin with then going straight to exile or sending them off on a busywork gathering quest is just pouring salt on the wound. That’s one reason I think it’s always best to at least try to offer punishment that involves active rp in the community)

Alright, let me do my best to explain the reason why I think this is fine. First, for your character to be punished, you had to do something that got you there in the first place. Pickpocketing, robbing someones chest, pking, whatever. Did you take the time to think about how that might effect the player you are targeting, or did you just do it because its part of the game? I suspect its the latter because no one really likes getting robbed or murdered, so the chance of them being ok with it seems slim to none. So how is this as a punishment not along the same lines of ok? You can find me defending the evil character's right to do there thing all over these forums, and I would be a hypocrite if I turned around and said "but its not ok to punish those who get caught."

As for what's fun or not, you the player are responsible for making the most of your situation. If you choose to grind it out alone, that's on you not the punisher. Now I agree there are some excessive things that people in law enforcement positions shouldn't do, just as there are rules about what you can do as an evil person. Me personally, I think this would be waaaay down on the spectrum of what constitutes excessive however, especially since you can say "Ok just exile me instead then".

As for your part about lashing out because a player is frustrated, I suggest taking it to the dms if you feel that way. The minute you lash out and go out of character because of reasons like this, you become the jerk no matter how guilty the other party is of whatever you are accusing them of doing.

Part of the issue and the imbalance between antagonists and protagonists is the responsibility of storytelling.

A murderer, a necromancer, a raider, a slaver - whatever they may be, their actions might be detrimental ICly, but that detriment is usually a trigger for a whole rippling effect of narrative.

Those who are in need of "punishment", in fact, foster a lot of roleplay through that pursuit.

But what roleplay does mining granite foster?

Arelith is hard, because we often have to struggle between what a setting, character, or world would call on us. A sheriff in Bendir might legitimately need to punish the highwayman who has been targeting travelers in his domain, but that highwayman has made Hawk'in go on patrols, created investigations, provided rivalry, had show-downs, and so on and so forth.

So when the highwayman finally comes into your graces to be punished - you what, you turn around around and tell them to go collect X of Y resource?

All the Hawk'in might look on and see this upholds Bendirian law; the wandering paladin might think this is good; everyone will nod and praise the sheriff for doing good work -

but what roleplay have you actually enhanced?

Conflict only ends in Arelith with death or departures (or the very rare corruption/redemption story). Nothing else. Punishment must be seen just as another step in the overall narrative, and while some few players/characters might think mining granite is fine, you really need to step up and deliver something more meaningful and more empowering to your fellow players.

I get the point you are making, but you are creating a slippery slope. If criminals can say "this punishment sucks, do something better or don't bother" what's to stop people who get annoyed by pvp to say "killing me even though I refused to back down sucks, do something better or don't bother"? It's not the criminal either that has enhanced roleplay, its how the victims chose to respond to it that enhanced it. If people simply say "that person sucks I'm just going to respawn and pretend it never happened" the criminal didn't add anything save a mild aggravation. That's why I say the onus is on the player who got the punishment to make the punishment cool.

Now, none of that means I am saying that sending people to gather resources is the end all be all of punishments. But it is a way to represent a punishment that doesn't involve pvp, so already its already got my vote for being at least decent. People who dislike pvp are constantly being told they need to roll with the punches and accept that its part of the game, something I fully support. But if the bad guys can't offer the same courtesy even if they find the punishment to be boring, the whole thing starts to fall apart.

[Gouge Away]

I think some of y'all keep coming back to the idea that a player needs to be punished if a character acts up. That's the problem in a nutshell. Players who take leadership roles have to be better than the rest of us and that includes using taking the high road even if you're annoyed at recurring criminal RP and want that player to feel they were punished. But the criminal player is playing the game just like you are, assuming no rules are broken.

Also keep in mind, all of what's been said assumes the criminal actually wants to get back in the town's good graces. I'm assuming anyone who would accept a punishment in the first place is doing so because they want to avoid exile, this isn't about underdark raids or pirates and necromancers and mass murderers who are permanently on the enemies list. I'm talking about the criminals who are "frenemies" and are looking for a path to rejoin the flock.

So yeah, these "frenemy" criminals can and should and maybe MUST be punished, but why not do it in a way that's fun for all instead of wasting their time? I think something like public stockades so the townfolk can jeer and mock and throw rotten fruit at them is missing in every settlement and completely era appropriate. Or give them busywork acting as the mule for the guards on patrol, or make them do your housework, I don't know, but it seems like there's tons of ways to make the character feel punished and both sides can get some fun and story out of it. If you're arguing against this then I don't really have any further response.

Yeah they might not take the option to do a public shaming, but at least you as *leader* put forth the option for a punishment that can foster RP, and if they didn't go for it at least you have it in your back pocket for next time.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

There is a lot wrong in what you just wrote, since everything I am saying is defending this as a possible alternative to the harsher forms of punishment for a character like exile and kill on site reactions, and has nothing to do with punishing the player. But one thing you did get right is that this is definitely focused on people who want to stay in a given settlement. If someone tells you that you need to get x amount of stone or you are exiled and you couldn't care less if you are exiled, then yeah...this does nothing.

Also, if there is say a pick pocket running around and always getting caught in cordor, and the chancellor or the guard commander or whatever does nothing about it, they will probably get voted out of power rather swiftly. That's just part of the roleplay involved with that position.

[Ninjimmy]

What is this "punishing the player" thing about?

Ignoring the fact you can take the exile, it's a punishment and the RP you get out of it is what you make of it. Resource gathering is actually easier than anything on a player since you can theoretically BUY most of it from another settlement, it's a glorified fine if you don't even try to RP it. Why would you need a very public show of it? "Commit a crime, get famous" would probably encourage more conflict but I can't say it's a healthy reaction (to my mind).

I mean, I've had characters forced to clean dishes and mop up drunk tanks to pay off debts so I get it, but both of those were behind the bar and the RP was in how the character kept trying to weasel out of doing the work. I didn't need everyone in Cordor to know what was happening, just some people who were drinking and could hear a wizard breaking plates every few minutes.

Like people are saying, resource gathering is just sticking a number to how much contrition you need to do - you could get that sentence commuted without donating a single unit if you play it right. Onus is on the repentant criminal to get the RP in.

[-XXX-]

It's important to acknowledge that the player made a conscious decision to play along in the first place. The least that can be done is presenting them with some options.

Same goes for any form of prisoner/slavery RP. The captive relinquishes a great deal of control over the situation, so the burden of making the experience as fun as possible falls onto the captor's shoulders.
This sort of RP is rarely successful without at least some concessions and an effort to cooperate on both sides.

A strict adherence to purely IC conduct can easily spiral into a dumpster fire of incorrect assumptions and OOC butthurt feelings on both sides - something that can easily be avoided by inventing options IC, rather than narrowing them down, or even exchanging a couple of tells if appropriate. Getting an idea of the OOC expectations on the other side goes a long way towards ensuring that they don't feel excluded from decisions about their character and indirectly about how they are being made to spend their time IG.

What is this "punishing the player" thing about?

Ignoring the fact you can take the exile, it's a punishment and the RP you get out of it is what you make of it. Resource gathering is actually easier than anything on a player since you can theoretically BUY most of it from another settlement, it's a glorified fine if you don't even try to RP it. Why would you need a very public show of it? "Commit a crime, get famous" would probably encourage more conflict but I can't say it's a healthy reaction (to my mind).

I mean, I've had characters forced to clean dishes and mop up drunk tanks to pay off debts so I get it, but both of those were behind the bar and the RP was in how the character kept trying to weasel out of doing the work. I didn't need everyone in Cordor to know what was happening, just some people who were drinking and could hear a wizard breaking plates every few minutes.

Like people are saying, resource gathering is just sticking a number to how much contrition you need to do - you could get that sentence commuted without donating a single unit if you play it right. Onus is on the repentant criminal to get the RP in.

It can be done right and it can be done wrong. Taking time to escort the prisoner and interactively roleplaying with them while they serve out their sentence is the right way IMO. Same with cleaning the dishes - your character gets to interact with other characters while they are doing it.

On the other hand, merely sending the prisoner to go grind resources on their own feels wrong and very much like punishing the player instead of their character as you are essentially forcing them to spend ~their~ time IG doing ~your~ chores, for which you'll be reaping the reward afterwards. I can fully understand why someone would not want to partake in that sort of thing.

[Ninjimmy]

What is this "punishing the player" thing about?

Ignoring the fact you can take the exile, it's a punishment and the RP you get out of it is what you make of it. Resource gathering is actually easier than anything on a player since you can theoretically BUY most of it from another settlement, it's a glorified fine if you don't even try to RP it. Why would you need a very public show of it? "Commit a crime, get famous" would probably encourage more conflict but I can't say it's a healthy reaction (to my mind).

I mean, I've had characters forced to clean dishes and mop up drunk tanks to pay off debts so I get it, but both of those were behind the bar and the RP was in how the character kept trying to weasel out of doing the work. I didn't need everyone in Cordor to know what was happening, just some people who were drinking and could hear a wizard breaking plates every few minutes.

Like people are saying, resource gathering is just sticking a number to how much contrition you need to do - you could get that sentence commuted without donating a single unit if you play it right. Onus is on the repentant criminal to get the RP in.

It can be done right and it can be done wrong. Taking time to escort the prisoner and interactively roleplaying with them while they serve out their sentence is the right way IMO. Same with cleaning the dishes - your character gets to interact with other characters while they are doing it.

On the other hand, merely sending the prisoner to go grind resources on their own feels wrong and very much like punishing the player instead of their character as you are essentially forcing them to spend ~their~ time IG doing ~your~ chores, for which you'll be reaping the reward afterwards. I can fully understand why someone would not want to partake in that sort of thing.

To be fair, I could have just spent IG time emoting *scrub scrub scrub* for an hour and it would have felt like I the player was being punished. It got fun because I made it fun.

As you said with prisoner/slave RP, it's meeting people halfway. The only difference between the two of these to my mind is that one has a defined mechanical number.

Though I can say doing it with RP from a guard/official would probably be better for all concerned, I don't think it'd be required to make a Hard Labour sentence fun for the player.

[The GrumpyCat]

So yeah, these "frenemy" criminals can and should and maybe MUST be punished, but why not do it in a way that's fun for all instead of wasting their time? I think something like public stockades so the townfolk can jeer and mock and throw rotten fruit at them is missing in every settlement and completely era appropriate. Or give them busywork acting as the mule for the guards on patrol, or make them do your housework, I don't know, but it seems like there's tons of ways to make the character feel punished and both sides can get some fun and story out of it. If you're arguing against this then I don't really have any further response.

I think what it comes back to is that it's probably a good idea for settlment 'Punishment's' not to be too heavily cofidfied, surely?

It's probably better,for all involved, if the character penalty is something that - at least to an extent, can be worked out as fitting for the character and situaiton involved.

If you have a situation where theft is punishable by say, one IG day in jail, or 500 units of resource - then in theory that's fine, but the player may find that dull and/or irritating, as may the guard characters

As such, maybe it's better to have situations that allows for more imaginative situations, such as yeah, doing chores, or being made to apologise to the person stolen from, or stockades, ect. A vareity of options.

[torugor]

If something from this entire post should be done ingame...is this simple concept.

So yeah, these "frenemy" criminals can and should and maybe MUST be punished, but why not do it in a way that's fun for all instead of wasting their time? I think something like public stockades so the townfolk can jeer and mock and throw rotten fruit at them is missing in every settlement and completely era appropriate. Or give them busywork acting as the mule for the guards on patrol, or make them do your housework, I don't know, but it seems like there's tons of ways to make the character feel punished and both sides can get some fun and story out of it. If you're arguing against this then I don't really have any further response.

I think what it comes back to is that it's probably a good idea for settlment 'Punishment's' not to be too heavily cofidfied, surely?

It's probably better,for all involved, if the character penalty is something that - at least to an extent, can be worked out as fitting for the character and situaiton involved.

If you have a situation where theft is punishable by say, one IG day in jail, or 500 units of resource - then in theory that's fine, but the player may find that dull and/or irritating, as may the guard characters

As such, maybe it's better to have situations that allows for more imaginative situations, such as yeah, doing chores, or being made to apologise to the person stolen from, or stockades, ect. A vareity of options.

[msheeler]

And if they don't want to actually interact with other people, well, there's always just killbashing them and calling it a day, because you can't create some sort of narrative or scene with someone who has no interest in actually creating some sort of narrative, and I've got better things to do with my time than driving my face into a brick wall.

My sole issue with this is that there are some people out there who like the game primarily for the PvP/conflict aspect. There are really limited means for a person who does not enjoy this to stop anyone from doing this once per day, other than exile. If that is the only tool you give to people to protect themselves from regular PvP, they will use it. If that makes you stop and go away, then good. Objective completed. If, however, someone wants other means then those means should be meaningful and not require people to hold that person's hand through this and offer them RP. They came to them with conflict and PvP that was not wanted, and they should not be forced to engage those that brought the conflict that was not not wanted.

The main reason I replied to this post at all is because the general sense that I got from the course it was following that it insists that the only kind of fun play here is conflict play and that simply is not true, and for many out there is actually what they least like.

AGAIN - I am not saying conflict and PvP are bad things. Indeed they are required for a healthy narrative. What I am saying is that there are a lot of people who do not want this to be a part of daily game play. The fact that the OP seems to suggest (at least that is what it felt like to me) that the entire server had to be based on this or else it was simply not fun is, IMO wrong. There are many types of RP that are fun and each person likes their own mix of these.

[The GrumpyCat]

There are really limited means for a person who does not enjoy this to stop anyone from doing this once per day, other than exile

I'm sorry but if someone is literally attacking your character every. Single. Day. On. The. Dot. That seems pretty much like griefing to me, and probably should be reported.

And the other thing is - I do not think people have quite so much an issue with someone being exiled, who is attacking people in a settlment on a regular basis. That is honestly more or less what the exile system is for.

If I play Trognor the Destroyer who murders halflings every week or so and enjoys popping to Bendir to brag about it, all the while whilst waving their severed heads about... yeah I pretty much should expect to be exiled.

The concern is more people who only occasionally pvp (and maybe even just once against the settlment), but none the less get exile as a first resort. Or people who are playing evil concepts. Or people who are playing just thieves/shady folk/ect.

[msheeler]

Just to clarify, it's not always a matter of the same person doing this every single day, but more like this sort of pattern -

Monday - Pirate Bob and his boys
Tuesday = Outcast Olivia
Wednesday - a couple of Pirate Bob's boys minus Bob
Thursday - Void Cultist Vini
Friday - Nothing
Saturday - Evil Drow Emma and her slave Sal
Sunday - Pirate Bob.

Victims: You know what- Pirate Bob is exiled.
Pirate Bob: What? I've only ever been here twice and it was like 6 days between!
Victims: We're tired of getting PvP'ed every day. This is our tool and we're going to us it.

[AstralUniverse]

Maybe the people of that settlement should put a more powerful leader in power that will hire more guards or bring help from the outside rather then exile and go back to your tea. Sorry for the speaking bluntly, but again, this setting is a religious/racial warzone and living peaceful undisturbed life on the mountain is unfortunately something to work hard for, not a 'given' in the setting. Or maybe I'm alone in this opinion.

[Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia]

Maybe the people of that settlement should put a more powerful leader in power that will hire more guards or bring help from the outside rather then exile and go back to your tea. Sorry for the speaking bluntly, but again, this setting is a religious/racial warzone and living peaceful undisturbed life on the mountain is unfortunately something to work hard for, not a 'given' in the setting. Or maybe I'm alone in this opinion.

You're not alone. If the people sitting on Guldorand are continually getting beat up, you'd think they'd flee to the protection of a stronger ally- maybe the baddies would occupy Guld for a time but that's just opportunity to kick them out again. Protagonists and antagonists have arcs. Sometimes they lose. Sometimes they win. Trying to maintain a stranglehold on the status quo sounds like it's not a very fun thing for you guys to do.

[torugor]

I think all the bellow should be punished if caught. All should go for a trial and punished each with their respective punishement. Discounting it all on pirate bob wont solve the issue. If you want to make pirate bob an example its great. But dont think you can exile everybody anyway so you must find a way to make punishement for the other guys. And if you start applying the capital penalty to all you are just making resentment and people looking for vengence. So you will start getting 3, 4 pirate bobs in your doorstep instead of one per day.

Lots of people is here complaining the getting caugh and having to spend time on prision or harvesting resources is boring. Yes hell it is. It is a penalty. It is supposed to be boring. It is supposed to be bad. If you dont make it boring and bad for the player it is not a penalty. No wonder everything resorts to pvp. Its the only thing that is a penalty here and even that is not that big of a penalty at all.

"oh but if people get this big penalties they will complain and stop playing". Hell they will. If someone spent like 3 months getting his character strong enough its a great investment. I am sure they will do their work to be able to play again. And maybe will think twice before doing crimes. That`s what penalties are for. to make people think twice before breaking rules. Make crime a risky business.

Players adapt to the game rules. The current game rule is: I do bad things...i get killed and respawn. I keep doing bad things I get exiled from the entire surface other than Sencliff and Simbayad. I think people ingame already adapted to this rules. If DMs and playerbase are fine with this all is ok. But I think this entire post is because this rules are causing an adaptation that is not healthy for rp.

Just to clarify, it's not always a matter of the same person doing this every single day, but more like this sort of pattern -

Monday - Pirate Bob and his boys
Tuesday = Outcast Olivia
Wednesday - a couple of Pirate Bob's boys minus Bob
Thursday - Void Cultist Vini
Friday - Nothing
Saturday - Evil Drow Emma and her slave Sal
Sunday - Pirate Bob.

Victims: You know what- Pirate Bob is exiled.
Pirate Bob: What? I've only ever been here twice and it was like 6 days between!
Victims: We're tired of getting PvP'ed every day. This is our tool and we're going to us it.