Lycanthropy - Improved Player Experience

[Juke The Spuke]

Lycanthropy is one of the few unique features on Arelith that can lead to a lot of fun role play situations. However, due to the obscurity of the disease and the way NWN is designed, there are some aspects of it that could use improvement. Most notably, the amount of warning you get prior to transformation. Since the game is (mostly) isometric there is no way for the player to track the movements of the moon in the sky. The dates and times of full moons are Find Out in Game information as well, which can further obfuscate the predictability of transformations.

It would be preferable if instead of transforming instantly at the allotted time, there would be visible warnings that the player can then make in character decisions based on these warnings. The notifications could range from a feeling of nausea, sudden taste of bile, hairs standing up on the back of one's neck, convulsions and pain in the joints. Anything to indicate that the character is experiencing changes within their own body. Similarly to how one knows to rush to the bathroom before throwing up.

The reasoning behind this feedback is that, unless you have godlike will saves, lycanthropy strips the player of control entirely when there are any other creatures in the vicinity. It also lasts a long time - an entire night. You should be given some time to excuse yourself before everyone either put you down or you slaughter the whole room you're in.

Speaking further on the lack of control there are times when your werewolf is stuck raging at the same creature until the night is over. This is not fun. It's times like this when you logout and come back later. Instances where this can occur are when the werewolf sees a creature that is unreachable and they stare at each other from afar or when monsters have too high damage reduction to be killed.

I don't know much about the lore of lycanthropy so this suggestion may very well fly in the face of the unpredictable nature of lycanthropy. In my opinion, this is acceptable if it improves player experience. There is a cure I'm told and it's very much a viable option but I feel like a feature should work on its own rather than be a nuisance for the player.

TLDR;

• add sufficient warnings of the illness minutes prior to transformation so that players can excuse themselves before losing control
• reduce ways in which players get stuck for the entire night (6 in-game hours)
  • disable rage if the werewolf hasn't damaged any creature for an extended period of time, namely when aggroing creatures they cannot reach (ledges, islands, etc.)
  • if your weapon is ineffective against a monster, ignore that creature while enraged so that you won't get stuck fighting it forever

[mjones3]

The dates of the full moon isn't FOIG information. As for when the transformation occurs its not on the wiki so i'm not sure if its FOIG or not.

http://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Time#The_Moo ... of_Arelith

[Dreams]

Werewolves change on the (26-28) Full Moon, which is information available in the article linked above.

[Drogo Gyslain]

Well... Aside from the Dates being addressed, Lycanthropy isn't supposed to be something that is a -desirable- thing.

Its a curse, an affliction, it turns you INTO a monster.

And yes, it is going to rob you of your sanity, because thats what Lycanthropy does. You turn into a mindless, raving beast.

So roleplay with that in mind, because as it stands? Lycanthropy operates as intended.

[Might-N-Magic]

I always thought it'd be cool if lycanthropy somehow supercharged a Shifter.
I mean, you'd think it would, plus Shifters kind of suck.

[Juke The Spuke]

I understand that lycanthropy is meant to be an affliction. I'm just giving feedback as someone who as a player finds those afflictions to go beyond roleplay and affect the gaming experience in a negative way.

The core issues:

1. No warning prior to shapeshifting

You know how in popular culture it takes at least a minute for any transformation to happen, whether it's a werewolf or the Hulk? Enough time to see the forms fighting one another before ultimately succumbing to the monstrosity within them. Having some time to emote the transformation that is about to happen would go a long way.

Instead, on Arelith it's poof you're a werewolf. By the time you've managed to emote anything at all, you've already attacked a number of people and describing the transformation or how your character might have handled it moments prior seems pointless at that stage.

2. Getting infinitely stuck when aggroing unreachable targets

This I'm sure you'll agree does not reflect any form of roleplay. Because of this issue I find myself making OOC decisions when choosing which areas to avoid. Only because I know that the NPC behind the bar is going to lock me in place for the remainder of the night if I so much as glimpse them in the distance. Same goes for any guards up on battlements or hostile creatures on top of elevated ground.

Coupled with the recently extended length of nights, this is an even bigger problem. You're often left with two options: stare at the screen for 2 hours while your werewolf form is unable to reach its target or logout and do something else for 2 hours.

[Apothys]

Thers a few FOIG ways to improve the dc saving throw and the bonuses your allowed to the save. However its still not easy.

Well I actually prefer the longer nights and rage time now. Before the time changes the date and time of transformation would easily sneak up on you and usually burst forth in the middle of rp. Now you have plenty of grace time get yourself chained up in a cellar somewhere or out in the wilds ready to hunt.

As for aggroing something you can't reach... yeah that really sucks. However you can force morph yourself back to human form. Then as you turn back into a WW you get a round of clear thought. Sometimes this is enough to get far away to aggro something else or hit a transition. Failing that force changing till you roll a 20 on the save is the only way out of the aggro trap

[AstralUniverse]

I wouldnt get my hopes up to see any changes in this system. Its so old. About half (probably more) of the devs and admins dont even like it. I wouldnt expect to see anything except a complete overhaul or outright removal. For what it's worth, I think this system is alright over all, with it's flaws.

[Apothys]

yes, ive been told the same thing. Ive put in a lot of approved suggestions for WWs, but it needs Dev who likes WWs to actually work on them

However i have learned to work with what we have and still provide some very good rp and storylines. Now if the Kill switch was a little less severe we could have even more interesting rp.

[AstralUniverse]

monk lycans ptsd. The whole server has it.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

The OP isnt advocating QoL for those who embrase lycanthropy. He is advocating heads up for newbies before they accidentally grief a whole town. You should not have to eely on wiki for position of moon.

I also think devs are prob not touching werwolves for a big while unless its a big axe as nobody cares for it that much on their end.

[Blood on my Lips]

Would it be possible to add a little "there's a full moon tonight" message to the weather updates we get in game?

While most of us know the dates of the full moon, apparently this is a problem for new players.

[Duchess Says]

I also think devs are prob not touching werwolves for a big while unless its a big axe as nobody cares for it that much on their end.

I get the sense it's something we players were supposed to want to be cured of ASAP and instead we're building characters that maximize being permanently afflicted. I'd probably expect to see it removed or nerfed down to nothing before they improve its functionality.

[fading]

I absolutely hate the argument that "It's supposed to suck." First of all, that's objectively bad design that actively sabotages RP. Why have a system for lycanthropy if we're treating it like you caught a bad cold? Some people want to RP werewolves, and whenever this is discussed the same "it's supposed to be terrible!" phrase is thrown. No, I don't think a werewolf is supposed to get stuck hitting unkillable trees in their own hunting grounds, and there's no good faith defense for that.

About a year ago there was talk about an overhaul for the system, but that never came to happen. Werewolves are super cool and it sucks that they're getting such mechanical mistreatment. There is a ton of amazing RP that can come from this curse, and embracing it and treating it as a blessing is extremely valid, especially for Malarites.

As it stands, unless you build your character specifically for lycanthropy, it won't be viable in combat. This is fine by me, it wouldn't be great design if being a werewolf was just a boon. My biggest problem is denying werewolf players the slightest QoL improvements from a misguided sense that they're not supposed to enjoy playing a werewolf. It feels like a punishment to the player for wishing to play werewolf, which seems very strange to me?



My feedback: I don't think the system needs an overhaul, it's fine as a niche thing, but some smaller updates would be appreciated for those who want this kind of RP. I'd like to call this "Accepting the Curse." As time goes on, and your character doesn't cure the affliction, it begins to act more symbiotic, rather than parasitical, while strengthening its hold on the character. Some examples:
- More ability to resist unwanted transformations. (An advantage on the Will saving throw based on how long you've had the curse, capped at a reasonable number)
- Attack Bonus. (For the sole purpose of being able to defeat pve enemies as a werewolf, capped at +3. Possibly taking a long time, and needing at least level 21 to reach)
- Resistance to Wolfbane. (As time goes on it gets harder and harder to actually cure the affliction, having a higher chance to fail curing it)
That's about it, I guess. It just needs to be made viable for those who want to RP a werewolf. Can still be seen as a horrible curse by and for most people, while a blessing for those few weirdos who worship the Beastlord.

[ltlukoziuz]

People nail it well - there's huge dissonance between "I want to RP being alpha predator / part of ww pack" vs "Never ever do I want to worry about contracting it." IMO, both playstyles should have merit. My own two cents on how to correct:

Make the curse not be directly contractable. Instead, WWs transmit a disease with all the same mechanics as now, but instead of getting unwanted lycantrophy, you start getting gradually worsening penalties to stats, still only curable by same methods as now. However, add FOIG method to pray to Malar and change the disease into actual Lycantrophy, penalties dropped and changed to benefits to actually being one (really liked 'fading' suggestions just above me).

Pros:
- Doesnt make you into 8 hr lunatic
- Gives the choice of embrace v cure

Cons:
- Needing to find out that there's multiple options

[garrbear758]

I also think devs are prob not touching werwolves for a big while unless its a big axe as nobody cares for it that much on their end.

I get the sense it's something we players were supposed to want to be cured of ASAP and instead we're building characters that maximize being permanently afflicted. I'd probably expect to see it removed or nerfed down to nothing before they improve its functionality.

Correct on both. It's supposed to be a curse not a boon, and if we make any changes to it, it'll be to better reflect that. If you build around werewolf you will receive zero sympathy from the team when your build is ruined.

[Apothys]

I also think devs are prob not touching werwolves for a big while unless its a big axe as nobody cares for it that much on their end.

I get the sense it's something we players were supposed to want to be cured of ASAP and instead we're building characters that maximize being permanently afflicted. I'd probably expect to see it removed or nerfed down to nothing before they improve its functionality.

Correct on both. It's supposed to be a curse not a boon, and if we make any changes to it, it'll be to better reflect that. If you build around werewolf you will receive zero sympathy from the team when your build is ruined.

Many if not all malarites will consider this a gift not a curse. Ive had countless RP on Malar gatherings were only the strongest are selected to be given the Gift while on the Hunt. Are you saying we should not be doing this and should instead just get the cure? Can we not interpret it how our characters see it, rather than the view of non Malarites?

Also, Vampirism is considered a curse by many yet they get all sorts of abilities and love. I love Werewolves and since i arrived on Arelith and found out about it being contractible its drawn me in further despite the almost complete lack of control. As a community many of us have come together over time passing on IG what tips can be used to help with WW rp as one generation of WW meets the next and passes on its wisdom. There is a lot of us WW lovers out there that's all I'm saying, we would hate for this mechnic to get worse rather than better.

[Azensor]

lets be real, the only reason werewolf isnt touched up or improved is to curb any furry shenanigans.

[Nobs]

Aint druid just better for furry shenanigans?

*Runs away before he gets flamed*

[MRFTW]

I can confirm that totem druids are indeed the premier furry class.

uwu

[Nobs]

So far i dont see any good reason to not help make the ooc life for ww players a bit better.

the fact that its a curse doesnt hold up as we got vamps aswel.
the furry fact doesnt eighter cous druids.

plus it is indeed a 'gift' should you play a malarite.

What i did hear is that ww was stupid strong on some build way in the past of this server , perhaps this is clouding the idea of the possibility to make ww's cool and fun to play like vamps.
Perhaps make it a greater or major award to and call it greater ww or something.
And then leave the in game curse like it is.

[Nitro]

Vamps are a 5% however, and demand an application. The number of vampires active on the server at any given time is always going to be limited to handful at most. While werewolves on the other hand have no restrictions on who can become one except the classes barred from it.

So by all means, make it easier to play a werewolf mechanically. But then also restrict it to a 5%.

[AstralUniverse]

What i did hear is that ww was stupid strong on some build way in the past of this server , perhaps this is clouding the idea of the possibility to make ww's cool and fun to play like vamps.

It wasnt even 'stupid strong'. It was just obnoxious really. How do you justify a *monk* going full rage mode instinct driven beast willingly? Stuff like that is why no one cares about it and no one wants to see it working with /any/ build what so ever. The only reason it hasnt been removed is I guess enough people have had RPed enabled by searching for the cure. It's a wonderful RP enabler for a new character.

[Nobs]

What i did hear is that ww was stupid strong on some build way in the past of this server , perhaps this is clouding the idea of the possibility to make ww's cool and fun to play like vamps.

It wasnt even 'stupid strong'. It was just obnoxious really. How do you justify a *monk* going full rage mode instinct driven beast willingly? Stuff like that is why no one cares about it and no one wants to see it working with /any/ build what so ever. The only reason it hasnt been removed is I guess enough people have had RPed enabled by searching for the cure. It's a wonderful RP enabler for a new character.

Some people do care.

[LIAR LIAR]

A hinmonk werewolf at level 30 became a supergiant in front of Cordor and basically got fought like a raid boss. Their ac was wild, but they pretty much stood in one place and fought a silver dragon EDK for five minutes while some of us healed it. Monks have since received nerfs which would massively reduce the effectiveness of this, but their APR is still pretty good for the werewolf. Sneak attacks can be pretty brutal, too. Overall though, it's a bad idea. You're just a mob at that point.