Disguise culture
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Disguise culture
There's also another kind of disguise I sometimes see, though thankfully much rarer: "<first name>". However, once broken it reveals to be "<same first name> <last name>". Doesn't that fall in the forbidden category (just how titles/nicknames/added on details do)?
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Re: Disguise culture
Locika Querrestalo - For holy light
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Re: Disguise culture
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Re: Disguise culture
Currently playing: Sabina Paultier
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Re: Disguise culture
which I'm fine with if rules reflected it. I wish this was something that rules bettee accommodated or hammered down on because i feel like a wet log in a fire when observing and yet avoiding this behavior.In Sorrow We Trust wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:17 amIt gives a sense of security that your floaty name won't immediately be used to identify you, as well.
It also amuses me when people had rheir secrer identity reveal by property and surprised.
So i want ti remind everyone. That if yiur character has a secret name that they don't publicly use or sign papers with. Don't make that your character name. Be like batman where tour true identity is the costume (disguise used sparingly) and your public property signing face is the name above your head. Ans if wanting ro do a big identity reveal down the road, ask DMs for name change.
Your commonly non concealed face name should be the one on your "character sheet".
Re: Disguise culture
It occurs to me, that disguised persons, when someone is sneaking on them, and tries to break their disguises, they get an OOC message: Your disguise was broken/held under scrutinize (or something like that). Sometimes I seen that seconds after this happens, they cast True Seeing. This of course could be a coincidence. But sometimes, I think: Oh wow, what a coincidence! And even if they don't cast true seeing, they are now aware that someone is sneaking around. A knowledge that is totally OOC.
I am not sure this is a rule's break, and if it is, it is hardly possible to decide whether or not this is a "lucky coincidence".
Anyway, I am just bringing up that disguise, imo can be (ab)used by players to find out if there are any sneaks out there. This is really not a big issue, so ... please don't cause a fuss over it.
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Re: Disguise culture
Yes. Likewise a disguised sneak will have a warning that he/she was detected when somebody tries to examine them. Also an OOC knowledge.Cuchilla wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:26 pmIt occurs to me, that disguised persons, when someone is sneaking on them, and tries to break their disguises, they get an OOC message: Your disguise was broken/held under scrutinize (or something like that). Sometimes I seen that seconds after this happens, they cast True Seeing. This of course could be a coincidence. But sometimes, I think: Oh wow, what a coincidence! And even if they don't cast true seeing, they are now aware that someone is sneaking around. A knowledge that is totally OOC.
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Re: Disguise culture
And this..
... is definitely a reportable offense that's also easy to spot and report. Unlike when someone just walks up to you to break your -cover, the log reports that they cast True Sight a soon as their disguise was broken. This is not a major issue that requires any special tools to investigate, nor it is difficult to spot live in action. A simple screenshot with a general description of half a line will do.It occurs to me, that disguised persons, when someone is sneaking on them, and tries to break their disguises, they get an OOC message: Your disguise was broken/held under scrutinize (or something like that). Sometimes I seen that seconds after this happens, they cast True Seeing. This of course could be a coincidence. But sometimes, I think: Oh wow, what a coincidence! And even if they don't cast true seeing, they are now aware that someone is sneaking around. A knowledge that is totally OOC.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
Re: Disguise culture
Here are bunch of possible reasons to use generic disguises:ltlukoziuz wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:42 amSo this is something that's been bugging me from the day I first came back to Arelith in late Summer after a long break - the amount of people constantly staying in a generic disguise. "X Elf, X Fighter, Travelling X, Masked X" and etc. etc. etc. different variations of it. The wiki clearly states these should be sparingly used, not more than brief encounters or one-off situations, and yet, every single time I have seen them over the several months I was in, it was used as if it's that person's identity, some of them literally living in it (one most egregious example was a person being "Adjective Occupation" and them changing the adjective multiple times, but always staying in disguise, way over RL month). When I first asked several people about it, I got same response - "It's just something that is overlooked, get used to it" and at first I avoided doing anything about them (especially if it was just passer-by) but honestly, the quantity of it is making it question if it's really fine that it's overlooked, so I wanted to see if others felt the same before I go stir crazy into reporting frenzy about that on future.
There's also another kind of disguise I sometimes see, though thankfully much rarer: "<first name>". However, once broken it reveals to be "<same first name> <last name>". Doesn't that fall in the forbidden category (just how titles/nicknames/added on details do)?
* They conceal your player name on the portal.
* They sort of work instead of "introduction". First/Last name is not known at a glance, yet nwn1 displays floating name (would be great to have an "introduction" system where somebody's name is not known until they t old it to you, or you were introduced)
* If you intend to whisper while invisible your full character name will be concealed if you're disguised.
* If you are doing something questionable and don't want your name plague to be visible from another part of the map.
Basically, in many cases the disguise even with negative bluff can be of use.
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Re: Disguise culture
Draco Deleteur
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Re: Disguise culture
Its kind of a shame how it's often used 24/7. Batman is so much cooler when he's also sometimes Bruce Wayne.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.
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Re: Disguise culture
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Re: Disguise culture
It is my understanding/opinion that people can attempt to scry a full alternate alias. So in that way fake names are better to be used in disguises than doing the whole "I'm joe, but name above me says bob.. so even though I am essentialy Joe to the whold world because its the only name i ever say IC, but you must type in bob when trying to scry."AstralUniverse wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:37 pmThe main issue I recognize is that you can use a name, any name, to be immune to Scry if no one meta-games your name and scries on you anyway, but if they do that they are breaking the rules and not you. So basically it's a free get out of jail card vs scry. Other than that, I dont see a major issue with people using generic names with no specific identity because if they do it often enough and hang out in hubs they'll just get reported and if they dont do it often enough to get reported then they are within the "use sparingly" zone.
again though.. your most commonly used name IMO should laready be the name above head.. from owning property to scrying etc. Let your secret alias.. be secret both IC and OOC.
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Re: Disguise culture
Yeah, but batman is the one with the mask and what you would use the disguise outfit for (even bruce wayne 'is the mask to the true persona') and bruce wayne would be the normal name above the head that's used for property ownership, etc.Amateur Hour wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:29 pmI think it's also worth noting that just because you only ever see Batman doesn't mean Bruce Wayne is never there. Bruce Wayne goes to charity galas; Batman swoops through the shadowy alleys.
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Re: Disguise culture
It is my understanding as well, but the character needs to know the name IC right? So in that sense, you can only scry on actual names, real or fake plus your character needs to know the name they are scrying on IC. On one hand it seems like a cheap way to cheat the Scry mechanic. On the other hand, I really despise the scry mechanic so whatever. Just pointing it out in the appropriate thread where it belongs.malcolm_mountainslayer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:48 amIt is my understanding/opinion that people can attempt to scry a full alternate alias.
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Re: Disguise culture
Re: Disguise culture
That would be so much better than emoting it over and over every time a new person comes on screen.Duchess Says wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:46 amImagine if you were able to add a second line under your name with a short descriptor if you wished ("carrying lumber", "scroll merchant", "tavern wench", things like that). I think the abuse of generic disguises might go down significantly as I think a lot of the time it's not used to conceal identity as much as express what the character is up to.
I would love any sort of mechanic that allowed anything similar to that.
Re: Disguise culture
Yes, that would be an amazing thing to have. A "status line" of sorts.Duchess Says wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:46 amImagine if you were able to add a second line under your name with a short descriptor if you wished ("carrying lumber", "scroll merchant", "tavern wench", things like that). I think the abuse of generic disguises might go down significantly as I think a lot of the time it's not used to conceal identity as much as express what the character is up to.
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Re: Disguise culture
For easier implementation, it could be something simple as a print to console on examine.Duchess Says wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:46 amImagine if you were able to add a second line under your name with a short descriptor if you wished ("carrying lumber", "scroll merchant", "tavern wench", things like that). I think the abuse of generic disguises might go down significantly as I think a lot of the time it's not used to conceal identity as much as express what the character is up to.
Kind of like "set pose" for Baystation forks of SS13.
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Re: Disguise culture
Re: Disguise culture
Generic disguises seem more relevant in out in the wilderness and snooping situations where your character isn't necessarily trying to present a face, but trying to avoid showing any revealing details about who they are. If I see someone in a generic disguise on the road or something, that doesn't bother me. However, I really dislike the idea of a character hanging around in a city in a generic disguise they use all the time and socializing and being recognized by people, but nobody knows their name. (I think, depending on the situation, however, there's probably wiggle-room there.) I had a character on Skal who used a generic disguise whenever they were out in the wilds hunting for people. Even though the disguise was meant for brief encounters, I'd spend hours in it and it was specifically the same disguise.
As for characters with bad disguise/perform ratings, if they're dumb enough or stubborn enough, why would they know that they're bad at it unless someone straight up tells them? I have a character who regularly tries to pass themselves off as an alternate persona and it never works, then they grumble about it, then do it some more anyways.
With adding a line under your character's name to denote status or some status message that pops up in your chat log upon examination, I could see that being abused pretty quickly for OOC messages. It is an interesting idea, though.
Finally, since I think -someone- mentioned it, I'm going to defend the validity of characters that are staying in disguise more often than not. If a character is duplicitous in nature, they're probably going to want to make sure their real face and real name aren't publicly available, and have a pretty strong motivation to -keep- it buried. If they think they're duplicitous and they suck at it because they have a low bluff or perform, they'll try to do it, and suck at it. Point is, I really don't think there's anything wrong with trying to stay anonymous if it's what your character would do. Anyways, it can be a fun RP moment for someone to take their proverbial or literal mask off and tell you who they really are as a sign of trust. It can be even more fun if they find out they've been outed later, and have to figure out who, out of everyone they've confided in, betrayed them... Additionally, it makes sense to have different disguises for interfacing with different groups if you're trying to get up to some chicanery. If your disguise gets broken and someone recognizes you from somewhere else, they can choose whether to act on that knowledge or not regardless.
Re: Disguise culture
I think the problem here arises in that it becomes an inversion when this is done. The disguise stops being a disguise, and the character's normal state is now the disguise. This only really applies to bluff/perform optimized characters.
Characters spending so much time in disguise, becoming recognized to many or even all characters in that capacity, can take off their disguise and in fact be better disguised without one.
That doesn't seem like the intention of the system, because you can't roll a spot check on someone's normal undisguised self and deduce they are in fact the mega famous guy who is very well known always in their disguise. This only really works for mega bluff characters but still it's just a strange side effect of the mechanic.
Ideally disguise inversion should lead to characters simply being renamed. To pick a good example might be Bat's Moira Krauss who eventually spent far more time disguised as Sydney Harrow, and thus just became Sydney Harrow instead. This makes much more sense for characters spending gratuitous time being their "Real Self".
I also wonder how much of this is tied to the piety system, as it seems an easy way stroll around scooping free piety. I'd bet most of the abuse lies here as a sort of minor exploit.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.
So we're very much on track.
Re: Disguise culture
It is thusly countered by spot. Long term disguises take more investment for the following reason:
Being disguise broken may not matter on the first identity, but if broken on a second your real name, seen on the first, can be used to tie them together as a means of "You're the same beneath all that makeup/helmet/clothing".
-Edit, since I wanted to clarify a point:-
Breaking disguise of "Jim" and seeing Bob.
Later breaking "Fred" and seeing Bob.
This is more informative than,
Breaking long term "Jim" and seeing Bob.
Later breaking "Fred" and the real name is now Jim.
You have no real trace to the original and additionally, why would this second pair be the case if Jim the persona and appearance differed from the real Bob beneath?
-End of edit.-
Aside from the fact changing names throws a spanner in a few mechanical systems it is the above that makes me disagree on changing actual names to match a disguise name if used long term.
As it stands there is a clear DM ruling reminder under announcements that makes clear the expectations, and beyond that, as always, report breaches.
Irongron wrote:I've literally never used -guard on anyone.
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Re: Disguise culture
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Re: Disguise culture
The only minor gripe i have is when you see someone constantly in disguise and break it.
I mean how are you supposed to react to these characters that are in a constant state of concealing the truth. WYSIWYG okay so I break Joe the bear strangler McGee's disguise to see it's really Steve.
But the fact is he's always been known as Joe so do I now beat the crap out of Steve and demand to know where Joe is lock them up charge them with the murder of joe and have them executed or banished.
I mean they are wearing Joe's armour carrying his weapons and belongings living in his house would be fair to say they murdered and replaced them.
But the thing is they haven't done any of that they have just used the system to stop scrying so really how dull is the truth.