Warlock sucks.

[Amateur Hour]

I just have to say, as a non-PvPer, blaster warlock has been...well, a blast to play. Most fun PvE experience I've had in a long while. So I wouldn't agree that it "sucks"...it just may not be everyone's cup of tea.

[Eyeliner]

High Con, high Charisma, no Dex sphere blasting warlocks are amazing for PVE.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Starpact 2 27 warlock 3 bg with IE (eldritch armor) can rock over 70 ac while you hideous blast your enemies. Empowered sound Lance will help for lvlimg when in parties/dealing with mobs etc.

Eldritch Armor needs an epic pact, otherwise it's too much ac with divine shield for a class that doesnt care about their own ab because they work of touches.

Fair, is just too damn taxing to have eldritch armor then. Like you are better off doing BG dip to get saves and cha to ac than spend normal feats for improved expertise. I guess if you want a tanky epic pact build it can maybe work. But I always struggle to find a way to use said feat. Especialyl since keeping improved expertise on makes you lose 10d6 damage. So even if you are still reliably hitting your damage is lacking meanwhile div dip dude still doing full damage and more ac and not needing to spend general feats on expertise. Again i guess if you want to rock an epic pact though. Like standing in your own empower entropy tenticles with improved expertise on.

[AstralUniverse]

Starpact 2 27 warlock 3 bg with IE (eldritch armor) can rock over 70 ac while you hideous blast your enemies. Empowered sound Lance will help for lvlimg when in parties/dealing with mobs etc.

Eldritch Armor needs an epic pact, otherwise it's too much ac with divine shield for a class that doesnt care about their own ab because they work of touches.

Fair, is just too damn taxing to have eldritch armor then. Like you are better off doing BG dip to get saves and cha to ac than spend normal feats for improved expertise. I guess if you want a tanky epic pact build it can maybe work. But I always struggle to find a way to use said feat. Especialyl since keeping improved expertise on makes you lose 10d6 damage. So even if you are still reliably hitting your damage is lacking meanwhile div dip dude still doing full damage and more ac and not needing to spend general feats on expertise. Again i guess if you want to rock an epic pact though. Like standing in your own empower entropy tenticles with improved expertise on.

*shrug* as far as I know, melee warlock has one build. It's Drow (because then you can fit in all these stats. it's a lot of stats. high str, 16 dex, reasonable con, 13+ int, 18 cha) and it does not use bg dip. But then again, I was the first to play a warlock/bg as a dex-blaster after everyone said "only go pure", and it was a lot of fun both in pve and pvp so who knows. Be a pioneer! Also, when you consider the fact melee warlock was considered pretty op at some point and all that happened since was a nerf to Orog then maybe it doesnt look so weak a lot of a sudden...

[AskRyze]

The only thing that might suggest that Warlock sucks is how good Invoker is.

We have already entered an era where if you're not a spellsword, a warlock, or an invoker, you are going to feel how far behind you are in your class design, especially when dealing with some of the newer PVE content that's been added to the module.

Warlock is the original content trivializer. Blastlock is quite silly and 2pact EDR literally walks over the entire server. Even edge-case niche builds like Fathom or high-cha Hag/Fae produce exceedingly impressive results. The complaint that the class requires effort to build correctly is, frankly, a complaint made by someone who hasn't genuinely taken time to read the wiki. A wiki which, without great difficulty in finding it, has a 'recommended builds' section. The game is based on 3.5 D&D, and though it strays further and further from god with every page added to the Arelith Updates thread, there is a way that you can knowingly gimp your character. But dear god that requires a near deliberacy of effort when you're looking at warlock.

I'll admit hideous blow is garbage, but Warlock doesn't need buffs.

[bryguy]

Nice thread! played a few warlocks since the big change from bard Locs. I am currently playing an Undying/PM warlock ATM but have played quite a few warlocks in the past. Most all warlocks feel roughly the same in power with some builds being absolutely ridiculous, except for the undying/pm route, crit immunity is super nice but having to sacrifice 10 epic caster levels in order to get it feels off. Would be kind of nice and IMO not unbalanced if it were possible to take death armor as a pact spell or perhaps needing only 6 pm levels instead of 10 to get crit immunity and give you a choice to go cast or blast. Going 20WL/10PM really pigeonholes you into a very specific build and you can get more bang for your build going Wiz/pm or Hex/pm. so why even make undying pact as an option, feels like fools gold lol I guess I'm playing it though. that's my only complaint about that specific warlock build the game play feels like I'm a rock-solid tank with no way to do reliable damage besides summons. and some single target stuff that is easily countered...(NEP anyone) so why even play it?

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Nice thread! played a few warlocks since the big change from bard Locs. I am currently playing an Undying/PM warlock ATM but have played quite a few warlocks in the past. Most all warlocks feel roughly the same in power with some builds being absolutely ridiculous, except for the undying/pm route, crit immunity is super nice but having to sacrifice 10 epic caster levels in order to get it feels off. Would be kind of nice and IMO not unbalanced if it were possible to take death armor as a pact spell or perhaps needing only 6 pm levels instead of 10 to get crit immunity and give you a choice to go cast or blast. Going 20WL/10PM really pigeonholes you into a very specific build and you can get more bang for your build going Wiz/pm or Hex/pm. so why even make undying pact as an option, feels like fools gold lol I guess I'm playing it though. that's my only complaint about that specific warlock build the game play feels like I'm a rock-solid tank with no way to do reliable damage besides summons. and some single target stuff that is easily countered...(NEP anyone) so why even play it?

I highly advise with that build to abandon eldrtich blasts completely and just take 2 pact feats in abyssal or star for more spell damage options.

If you take race with plus con or dex (and no negative in either) you can also achieve pact 5 undead on a 30 warlock while still being a dex blaster with all the blast feats.

PM is partial meme, but also really really meaty. Again, try having fun with abyssal/star and spam empowered scintiling sphere or sound lance. Sound lance is better but high lvl wild surges while being durable and spamming spells can also be fun.

[I will never sleep]

The only thing that might suggest that Warlock sucks is how good Invoker is.

We have already entered an era where if you're not a spellsword, a warlock, or an invoker, you are going to feel how far behind you are in your class design, especially when dealing with some of the newer PVE content that's been added to the module.

I felt that in my very soul. Why does spellsword get a full ab bonus attack again?

[-XXX-]

Why does spellsword get a full ab bonus attack again?

Because it'd have been really bad without it.

Looks like the designers didn't want to force multiclassing on spellsword, because that's the only thing that a downgrade to medium AB would've accomplished. Making them low AB would've made them virtually unplayable.