Stone/Fire/Frost HGiant Disparity

[Svrtr]

It has been a while since the stone half giant thread about their nerf, and full disclosure I do believe the nerf was unjustified and a conflation of numbers for strength and numbers for aesthetics.


With that said, this is admittedly anecdotal as it is hard to on a small scale get an objective value of numbers to prove or disprove this, but many I have spoken with have said they would be interested in fire or frost half giants if it wasn't for the dwarf pheno. That the disparity between the three was in no small part the dislike of the dwarf pheno.

So, with this admittedly limited in certainty knowledge, it seems like (assuming it is possible) it would go a good way to allow fire and frost giants to select between either dwarf or human pheno, and perhaps likewise allowing stone half giants to choose as well.

A short post but not much to be said other than make stone half giants shorter than frost/fire half giants please and ty

[AstralUniverse]

I welcome any humanoid race who can take a human model and I really wish giants could take a human model (although, it doesnt have to be the prettiest one, but just not dwarf or horc or whatever that horrible thing was...). big +1 here.

[Morto]

Linking back to some recent threads relating to this topic.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=39130

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=38446

I'll Also Kick-in that StoneGiant's now stand out as the only giant race with out an option of a Shaman Bloodline type creation trait.

[Kenji]

I am undecided between the following two options:

1. Revert the Con reduction and reduce Wis instead. Introduce Shaman Bloodline, which +2 Wis
2. Introduce Warrior Bloodline, which +2 Con

I'd like to know which approach is the most efficient for the existing Stone HGiant player base to have minimal impact on the existing character. It'll also minimize the need for players to contact DMs or Admins for any changes due to balancing.

I will ask Spyre for a census from September about Stone HGiants and their current builds, along with first-level classes and multiclass choices.

Meanwhile, if anyone has a Stone HGiant character, DM me the option that would benefit you.

[Morto]

I am undecided between the following two options:

1. Revert the Con reduction and reduce Wis instead. Introduce Shaman Bloodline, which +2 Wis
2. Introduce Warrior Bloodline, which +2 Con

I'd like to know which approach is the most efficient for the existing Stone HGiant player base to have minimal impact on the existing character. It'll also minimize the need for players to contact DMs or Admins for any changes due to balancing.

The path which First reduces Wisdom would seem more streamlined compared to the other Giant Bloodlines (This Stat Shift matches the Frost HGiant Shaman Bloodline Exactly).

*BUT*

Reducing Wisdom first would be hugely disruptive to any PCs which depend on WIS for Casting, until they secure the Corrected Bloodline.

Adding your described Warrior Bloodline seems like a less Jarring as it works off the current state of stat blocks players have already been adapting to for the past month or so.



Side note,

I wanted to say **THANK YOU** to the Arelith Team for Half Giants, their design is awesome and lots of fun! Even if they are "new" to lore, have been having lots of fun learning and playing into the Giant side of history/pantheon/lore meanwhile the half-human side keeps them from feeling too alien or monstrous.

[Baronze]

So, with this admittedly limited in certainty knowledge, it seems like (assuming it is possible) it would go a good way to allow fire and frost giants to select between either dwarf or human pheno, and perhaps likewise allowing stone half giants to choose as well.

Hear, hear. Giant dwarves look goofy.

[Waldo52]

I welcome any humanoid race who can take a human model and I really wish giants could take a human model (although, it doesnt have to be the prettiest one, but just not dwarf or horc or whatever that horrible thing was...). big +1 here.

Fully agreed. Sorry for going off on a tangent but I've also noticed that Andunor has half orc guards who use the human phenotype, and IMO it is a vast aesthetic improvement. I think there are a few races that would really benefit from the human phenotype option.

[msheeler]

I don't currently have a h-giant PC, but had considered building one. I wanted to build a stone giant, but upon analyzing builds this is what I found:



What this boils down to is that despite having the same rewards level as Frost and Fire half-giants, the Stone half-giant is actually in a worse place ability wise than a plain human build. Fire and Frost Giants can easily achieve 4 more ability points plus get the higher element resistance that can be built on (though they do have one vulnerability it is not as heavy as the opposing resistance). If you see the above humans can easily also out stat build the half stone giant. The main issue, I think is because that the half stone giant does not have a +4 stat, just the three +2 stats, yet it is the only one with a -4 stat. The +4 stats on the other classes weigh much heavier into the build because of the scaled cost of higher stats.

Some possible fixes to this: (pick one only)
1. Remove the -4 dex penalty, this puts them in line with the Frost and Fire half-giants ability spread wise.
2. Boost either Strength or Constitution to +4 and remove the wisdom bonus - this makes them almost identical to either frost of fire variant.
3. Reduce Stone half-giant's ECL to +1 so they can chose one major gift on creation.

additionally:
Consider raising their physical immunity to 10% across the board.