Request for Henchmen Feedback

[Kuma]

Howdy. I want to write more henchmen but I need to know what makes one actually worth hiring. What makes a good henchman?

Please list any feedback to help me do this that you think would be useful.

This may also be a good place to list weirdness or inconsistencies with DCs to hire being out of wack with their capabilities.

[Xerah]

The most important thing for henchmen is AC, followed by reasonable damage/HP.

Caster henchmen are a waste of time to put in (clerics can be okay-ish). For example, Chaarvik Dayal is just useless.

Following that, rogue skills are nice (Eric Dansbury is great; Heckel "Fatty" Pipeweed and Holler "Toes" Pipeweed are awful because of the first line reasons).

The most useful ones are the Flaming Fist ones. There are two of them that have low leadership requirements (25) but are level locked to 19 and the other is higher.

One of the most annoying things with them is when you go to play and someone has hired someone already. If you are playing late at night with a class that needs support because summons mostly suck, then your planned game time is wasted (this has happened to me recently more than once with a leveling bard).

Some other bad ones I can think of:

• Expeditionary Scout - have AI issues

• Kres Hassak - High leadership req, terrible first point issues

Recommendations are:

• The Flaming Fist hires do not need to be 'unique'. (don't have them disappear when hired)

• The underdark should get a generic hire place like the Flaming Fist

• Don't waste time with caster henchmen

• Make sure AC is scaling with levels/leadership req (honestly, once you get through the early ones, Leadership req = AC would be a pretty good metric)

[Security_Blanket]

I like a mixture of both combat ability and utility myself, sometimes I'll hire a henchmen just so I have someone that can reliably deal with locks and traps. If the focus is more on story than mechanics, I took to some of the noble henchmen on my noble character because it just felt more like the sort of crowd he'd associate with, that said, I really wish level 30s could hire that one noble henchmen in the Banite keep in Minmir, you know, the one nobody ever uses. I don't mind the caster henchmen, sometimes I even prefer them on my tanks because you can Guard your henchmen and keep the focus on you.

[chris a gogo]

Flaming fists are all fine the cleric/ftr and the rogue/ftr even just he standard fighter ones all work with no AI issues other than normal NwN stupidity.

Pathfinders I found worked fine but lacked survivability.

Bard henchmen stand around doing nothing and just draining gold without doing anything at all.

Mages, I'm not to sure about I've seen two used in the deep wells couple of days ago I didn't notice them having much impact but the party was 1 sorcerer lvl 27 1 elementalist lvl 28 and 4 henchmen (2 flaming fists and 2 mages) a planar conduit and one elemental, after a four hour adventure only one of the henchmen made it back alive and that was the flaming fist pure fighter.
Hit points was the deciding factor as it gave time to stop it doing something stupid and heal them.

[AstralUniverse]

I havent played with henchmen for a while so my memory is a bit vague but I recall there was a pretty cool henchman with high parry who just never turn parry mode on. A shame really. I think there are already pretty cool henchmen but their AI sucks basically. There are some broken ones who will never attack unless something specific and random happens and they attack a mob, and that's it. Like the expedition ranger henchmen iirc.

What makes a henchmen good? First of all, one that doesnt suffer from the poor AI issues or total dysfunctionality is already probably useful if it has a 2handed weapon or decent AC. some of them are pretty good for dps, if you can guard them with improved expertise or something, while some of them have pretty okay buffed ac, and can take magic vestments, and can be sent to the front. It's a bit binary but there isnt much else to do with them afaik.

[Irongron]

I would be interested to know if the henchmen (party members) in the official modules have the same issues, or if something Arelith related is causing these AI problems.

[Gerhazo]

I think there's merit to the statement that AC is especially important.

This may also be a good place to list weirdness or inconsistencies with DCs to hire being out of wack with their capabilities.

On my experience with UD henchmen, there seems to be a massive gap of henchmen varying from very powerful to nigh-useless, hopefully others will also share their perhaps more in-depth analysis:

Low level henchmen seemed alright from my experience, but further in there are some oddities.

Shanz'ix and Caine (noble-only), level 15-25, are really good henchmen, bearing 50-ish AC, with one of them having rogue abilities. They're very reliable.

When one leaves the level 15-25 area, next up, level 20-30 is Gn'Taath. They require an invested 50 leadership and have barely about 30 (28? I have that number written down somewhere) AC, immediately at risk of dying to an average encounter. First time taking them out and seeing them dead, I thought they got hit with a death spell I didn't notice, before reading the combat logs and seeing them just get obliterated.

There is also the noble-only level 20-30 Mystefixzes. I haven't used them personally, but everyone I talked to says they're nigh-worthless, having not tried them myself (Bloodbeard proved sufficient for most things without occupying more henchmen). Things I hear is low AC, barely able to deal damage, supposedly their only recommended use is as a pocket healer.

Effectively, after level 25, one loses access to 2 really good henchmen which get replaced by squishy ones that you have to -guard (if you yourself have the leisure of being tanky) and babysit.

On the flipside, there is the Matron Bloodbeard Also 20-30, noble only. Very powerful henchman, high AC and generally a lot of features, though they're noble-restricted so many people won't have the opportunity to use them.

Inside the Greyport authority building, there is also Raktarh, who also suffers from 30-ish AC ranges. Not a particularly great henchman, also one that many won't have access to.
Update: Having tried them, they're very mediocre. They'd contribute slightly in a group, but playing a bard I wasn't able to rely on them to handle PVE content, even supported by the (admittedly now heavily nerfed) summons.

[Eyeliner]

All the names makes me think... Does anyone RP with the named henchmen? They have such vivid backstories and personalities for silent NPC cannon fodder, I never knew what to do with that. I assume you're not supposed to have them speak since they aren't your summons or familiar?

I think I prefer the nameless henchmen who are a "type" instead of an individual since they're almost always in the background anyway.

[Kuma]

All the names makes me think... Does anyone RP with the named henchmen? They have such vivid backstories and personalities for silent NPC cannon fodder, I never knew what to do with that. I assume you're not supposed to have them speak since they aren't your summons or familiar?

I think I prefer the nameless henchmen who are a "type" instead of an individual since they're almost always in the background anyway.

I fully admit I went way too far with the UD ones, this was before I was formally part of the dev team. I just went a bit wild. They were designed to have as much personality and depth as the rest of the work that Bat did and I helped with.

Future henchmen would likely not be as flavourful. Perhaps, like the Flaming Fist, their organisation and leader may be, but the dudes would probably just be dudes. Or at least closer to the ones in Cordor.

[Arszenik]

There is a bunch of henchmen that are either impossible to hire or have some incredibly esoteric hidden requirements. The one at the Church of Bane is a good example, Ive played there for almost a full year now and never seen anyone be able to hire him.

I feel like a great start would be to actually have their description tell you what exactly the requirements for each one are, because in many cases there isnt really any way to find that out.

There is also some that just have requirements that dont make sense for where you find them, like the Nexus Falls Kenku that has, IIRC, like 40+ leadership requirement, which nobody is going to have while levelling in that zone.

Other than that, a lot of them just seem really fragile and then require the player to heal them, which is just a bit of a pain.

[Biolab00]

Their leadership requirement is possible to be achieved from soft bonus.
So, it's basically another round of dweomercrafting session.
Admittedly, this is probably something that is simple for old-timers than for new players.

There're some henchman that is impossible to hire unless you're a noble.
Either from being a landed noble or a minor award noble.

[chris a gogo]

UD henchmen.

Generally better than the surface ones deadman and pigwig are good early- mid level companions decent ac hp and damage for the level range.
Greyport companions are fine for low level stuff can't recall there names, I do recall the cleric spent the first few encounters self buffing before it did anything useful but after that was fine.

Shanz'ix very good as is Caine.
Matron Bloodbeard is by far the best henchman good HP good AC and decent damage, noble only of course but if your going to play a class that is going to need fighters around it taking noble award is worth it just for this henchmen.
Mystefixzes is useless.
G'nath I used him alot when I was playing a true fire that didn't have noble award. decent damage but you have to micro manage him as his AC is awful 30 ish iirc which means even non epic dungeon mobs shred him.

[Lord Blacktooth]

I would love it if Henchmen are perminent.
Right now i have issue actually finding one not already dead/used and have to wait on a server reset.

[helitron]

A few more sailing henchmen at ports with sail/pick lock/disable trap would be great. Would open sailing to players that don’t invest in sail.

Also, some ships have guards that can be hired as henchmen. These do not leave the ship, which is intentional, but makes them a bit useless when wanting to board NPC ships or explore islands. Would be nice if they would leave the ship for 10-15 minutes and then return.

[Azensor]

UD henchmen.

Generally better than the surface ones deadman and pigwig are good early- mid level companions decent ac hp and damage for the level range.
Greyport companions are fine for low level stuff can't recall there names, I do recall the cleric spent the first few encounters self buffing before it did anything useful but after that was fine.

Shanz'ix very good as is Caine.
Matron Bloodbeard is by far the best henchman good HP good AC and decent damage, noble only of course but if your going to play a class that is going to need fighters around it taking noble award is worth it just for this henchmen.
Mystefixzes is useless.
G'nath I used him alot when I was playing a true fire that didn't have noble award. decent damage but you have to micro manage him as his AC is awful 30 ish iirc which means even non epic dungeon mobs shred him.

Misty-sticks is nice for one reason and one reason only, the full heal he can give you /if/ the ai isnt derping

[Security_Blanket]

I'd like some more options besides the Flaming Fist mercenaries, Zhentarim Mercenaries, Iron Throne Mercenaries, I don't think we need unique NPC henchmen. I've also loved the idea of certain guildhalls and other areas having some sort of a recruiter for spawning a NPC henchmen to hire, Myon Archers, Watchful Brothers (Minmir Banites), Knight of the Triad, and so on. Give a little bit more flavor to these characters instead of everyone with some leadership hiring the Flaming Fist. It makes sense to me that an elf with high leadership convinced/inspired a couple Myon elf NPCs to join them in their cause, likewise for a Banite or a Triadic Knight and everyone in between. I like having henchmen that make sense for my character.

[Quidix]

A few reflections:

• Please tone done Matron Bloodbeard, she's very powerful
• I like the ideas of more generic henchmen as mentioned by others, as some characters struggle when they're not available
• The flaming fist henchmen are a good benchmark for 'good, but not game-breaking' is in terms of stats, and find a good balance of AC and damage
• Only melee fighter henchmen work well, with improvements needed for others (bards, clerics, mages)

[Xerah]

The other nice thing about henchmen is that it opens design space for casting spells on them which you obviously can’t do with summons.

Also, don’t give them magical weapons. The ones that have a basic weapon are much better (usually)

[RedGiant]

1) Would echo others here who have said we could use more sources of generic henchmen using the Flaming Fist as a template. This is especially true in the UD.

2) Personally, I would love to see /ranged/ henchmen as an option.
D ...................................... >>>-------<>............................((O))

3) Finally, this might also be a UD problem, but far too many of the current slate require an award to access. I'm not against this idea, just that this should be balanced against other sources. Attention to concern #1 could also eliminate concern #3.

[Kalthariam]

Honestly the main purpose, in my opinion, of a companion is a second body that can sort of hold their own in the level range they are appropriate for.

Underdark has some very.. weird scaling companions, and it's really weird that some of the level 30 Companions that require 50 leadership are straight up weaker than some of the 15-25 companions, that you stop being able to hire after a bit.

The noble kobold companions a major let down.

[A1RMAN]

Feedback on UD henchies:

Irongron said that feedback about UD mercenaries possibly needing an update should be posted in this thread. So, here's my experience:

• Jhaurrak (Greyport): Good. Your reliable low level ally.

• Bruxina the Awakened (Greyport): Decent. But the fact she's a spellcaster often leaves her out of the battle.

• Snetchum (Silver Mines): Unknown. Never was able to hire this strange mercenary. As far as I know you need be a citizen of a corresponding settlement to hire him. A rare person has any citizenship at the point of the game when this henchman is useful.

• Ch'alaswa (Red Tower): Terrible. A caster merc that literally didn't do anything the only time I've hired her.

• Pigwap (Saltspar): Decent. Lacks in AC department.

• Deadman (Oculus Station): Good

• Shanx'iz (Restful Mind): Good

• Carne Lismane (Restful Mind): Good

• Gn'Taath (Saltspar): Good. But requires guarding, AC is non-existent.

• Matron Bloodbeard: Very Good

• Mystefixzis (Saltspar): Terrible. Very low offensive capabilities and constant attempts to cast something.

As it was mentioned in this thread before, caster henchmen are not working. It's cool when they can cast something, but it should be 1-3 spells on CD maximum and never a spellbook, since AI cannot handle it properly.

[LivelyParticle]

The henchmen on the Sea Leopard, if they die, (which is often due to silly AI decisions) they do not have the ability to be revived until next reset, which can be painful as they contribute towards the ship sail score. They also drop 'stolen treasure' which I think is a bug.

I also have some issues with the ship henchmen at times if there's (I think? I'm guessing) lag, while they are still in party and leaving the ship, they remain off the ship and you can't get them back on board through conversation (just says: I'm busy right now). I did find a workaround to this - dominate monster and get them back on board this way, but it'd be nice to be able to have an option to tell them to return to the ship if they get stuck - this also happens on the ship itself, below decks, not just at ports.

And for an extra goofy request/feedback, it'd be great to be able to give them different coloured outfits/uniforms.

I think for what they are otherwise they are great, though. It just would be nice to be able to tell them not to run into enemies with a crossbow...

More sailing henchmen would be great, too.

[TheDoctor]

The henchmen on the Sea Leopard, if they die, (which is often due to silly AI decisions) they do not have the ability to be revived until next reset, which can be painful as they contribute towards the ship sail score.

More sailing henchmen would be great, too.

I /think/ thats working as intended but please don't quote me.

More sailing henchmen please! Maybe at crows nest?

I also fully support bein able to take the ships henchman over with the boarding parties! Please!!!

[Rowlind Salem]

A ranger that can shoot a bow and use a quarterstaff.

An enchanter wizard companion that can cast mage armor and a zoo of your choice and throw blindness/deafness on whatever is attacking you, keeping a certain standoff distance behind you as a skeleton archer would.

A cleric that can cast shield of faith and a zoo of your choice and either tank with a mace and shield or support with cure minor wounds spells.

A shaman that can cast two zoos of your choice and either tank with an axe and shield or support with a lightning cantrip.

A druid that can cast two zoos of your choice and either tank in polymorph form or support with cure minor wounds.

A monk that can tank or attack from range using random monk weapons. - high listen/spot

A rogue that can tank with parry or attack from range with a light crossbow. - hide/ms, spot, search, ol/dt. One great, two good, one okay - random each time.

A two handed sword barb that can also throw axes

A longsword and shield fighter that can also taunt

Make these things instanced, give some randomness to it. Random names, random skills with weights in certain areas.

You should be able to go to the local henchman guild and rent someone out. Have some archetypes that scale to your level and leadership ability with a touch of randomness in there. The henchies should be easily ID'd by having a blue name or something.

Give each of them two or three basic modes of operation appropriate to their class. A cleric could buff, melee, and heal for instance whereas a fighter could melee and taunt. The fighter can't buff or heal, but the cleric can't melee as well.

[chris a gogo]

One thing about surface henchmen compared to UD ones is they don't show the level range in the description or when they are race/ noble locked.