Typing Indicator/Quacker Trial Feedback Thread

[98lbs of sad carryweight]

I like it, and we can opt in.

Very neat.

[ltlukoziuz]

I come from an environment where it already was like this - an rp site where due to technical reasons, pc players had quackers, but mobile players were 50/50 on that. Generally, not been an issue at all whatever combination of quack v no quack you have. People would be lenient for ₅ minutes for up to 500-700 character response. Sometimes, if quacker person was antsier and nonquacker person used to respond in multiple short messages, there would be an oocly ask "hey, can you put some small mark that you finished replying" and that would be it. Otherwise, quackers wouldnt be minded at all. I agree though that in game their size could be reduced.

[LivelyParticle]

The indicator shows even when I'm not typing. So literally hitting enter and having my cursor in the text input line/bar shows I'm typing when I'm not.

[The Moon]

Relaying some feedback that was in the Official Arelith Discord that hasn't been shared here yet:

Having quacking enabled doesn't work with a few other features on Arelith such as:

• Illusion copies
• Henchmen
• Familiars

For the first specifically, this means that if people want to pull off convincing illusion trickery they'll need to have their quacking display turned off.

Secondly, if someone has quacking visible and is speaking to someone in stealth or invis, it can tip other players off that there is someone else there.

[Purplemyst]

I appreciate this change! Thank you to whoever worked on it. I can't even tell you the amount of time I've waited for players to respond to find out the conversation was over after waiting 5 - 10 minutes.

In regards to the feedback about it being abused.. I'm sure it will be but there will be players like myself who would see the bubbles and wouldn't engage until the player had finished.

[Second Breakfast]

There are a number of posters in the thread who are urging me and others to “just try it”.

Thing is, I have. Star Wars: Legends of the Old Republic had a similar system with quackers set-up, right down to the VFX that is shown above others’ heads.

I wasn’t fond of it then on that server, and so it’s reasonable for me to assume I’ll think the same of it now.

When I take time to write out responses to people and I am slower than usual, oftentimes I am deleting what I write twice or maybe three times, just because I don’t get my character’s voice right on the first go-around. Quackers give me one more thing to be conscious about and that isn’t a good thing for me in the activity I choose to do for fun and my own entertainment.

That some players are coming in hard to pressure others into the system kind of illustrates the point I made earlier in the thread; people will go into the expectation that others will use this system and those who don’t obviously must be acting on bad faith. Even if, for example, those who use the clone of themselves from ESF: Illusion will be giving up the game if they do stay opted in, to this.

[Marsi]

I'm not understanding the pushback against negative feedback. Speculation and second order thinking is an important part of feedback and feature design.

Quackers are not a new concept, many of us have firsthand experience with "typing..." indicators creating unwanted awkwardness or forcing us into premature response.

[Deep Fried Thinking Emoji]

I'm liking the change so far and will most likely opt-in into the system if it sticks around after the trial period.

I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before, but it would be nice if the script checked if you are writing a tell, a command, or rping before firing instead of it happening as soon as you press enter/click on the chat bar. Maybe have it check what is the first character you wrote in the chatbar and only show the quacks if it is not a - or /? Besides that, the quacks are too big, them being half or a third of what they are now would be better.

The complaint about people abusing the system feels a bit pointless when every other system in the server is abusable. We would be playing vanilla NWN if the devs didn't add systems to the server because people might abuse them. Quackers are not going to cause more issues than scrying for example. If someone's going out of their way and waiting until the other player's hands are away from their mouse, writing, to attack them just report them.

[Royal Blood]

It's kind of funny something relatively simple can have such a big impact!

Id be curious what the trial phase is like. I'm sort of neutral on it. There's the occasional hiccup where maybe someone emotes over someone else or something. I've been trying to do better myself of indicating when my character intends to continue speaking like

"So the emphasis on the arcane is [She continues]

Or even when they're done speaking etc.

My only worry is that the speed of RP will slow down. That might be good? But if the delay between responses becomes too long then encounters take longer with larger gaps of idle time as everyone speaks one at a time.

In my opinion, typing fast, reading fast, are important to sort of keep things moving as are multiple characters pushing out their ideas at the same time rather than waiting one at a time.for every character to message which may be what happens if everyone knows who is typing.

[Buried Faces]

I like it over all, but I think the indicator should be like 20% of the current size, it's massive in its current form.

^

[ltlukoziuz]

I come from an environment where it already was like this - an rp site where due to technical reasons, pc players had quackers, but mobile players were 50/50 on that. Generally, not been an issue at all whatever combination of quack v no quack you have. People would be lenient for ₅ minutes for up to 500-700 character response. Sometimes, if quacker person was antsier and nonquacker person used to respond in multiple short messages, there would be an oocly ask "hey, can you put some small mark that you finished replying" and that would be it. Otherwise, quackers wouldnt be minded at all. I agree though that in game their size could be reduced.

Additional feedback after having played about with them a bit:

• Yes, they're too big, and more importantly, they're FLASHING! Visual noise is certainly something that will be annoying. Suggestion: 50% or more size reduction, change to single non-blinking, static bubble.
• As some have noted, just clicking "Enter" and sitting idle = quacker on. It should a) Ignore first few characters; b) If it sees (can NWN even do that) that first character is '-' or '/' - not render quacker as it's command/tell; c) Turn off if no input in several seconds; - Current implementation is way too obtuse right now

Would be a great feature for non-conflict RP, otherwise. In conflicts though, I think the solution is simply to RP and play as if quackers don't exist EVEN if they exist.

[Cobblewobble]

best update since toolbars and clothing additions

long needed

needs the ability to adjust size and more precision about when or when not actually typing

[Fain]

I've dealt with quackers before, and know with certainty that I absolutely hate them. I feel they are invasive, and even in this thread with the people saying "just try it" a social pressure to use them is apparent.

I was prepared to quit Arelith because I don't want the exposure of someone seeing how long (or how short) of a time I spend considering a response to type out.

If this feature were mandatory instead of allowing us to opt out, I would definitely have left the server along with several other friends who were unhappy with the development direction things have been taking to pull the server closer to Second Life and MMO roleplay.

The only redeeming aspect of this change to me is that its optional. The fact that there is already social pressure to try the quackers is insane, and this is terrible for players with social anxiety.

[toftdal]

I have tried it out for a few hours of fairly intense RP. For me, it is a great help to allow people to have a chance to finish typing (I type fairly fast myself). In a four-way conversation, it gives me hints if everyone is about to say something and I can delay my own response.

Whether everyone uses it, is of little concern to me - people should play how they are comfortable playing. Long story short: I like it.

[ltlukoziuz]

If this feature were mandatory instead of allowing us to opt out, I would definitely have left the server along with several other friends who were unhappy with the development direction things have been taking to pull the server closer to Second Life and MMO roleplay.

For someone who doesn't see much difference - how is Arelith/PW roleplay different from any other MMO RP? Far as I say, instead of developers/writers adding events and stuff, you have DMs and contributors tuning in both personal and global events, and otherwise, whether it's one or the other, the people just selfgovern/decide on what they want? I see that argument several times, but it's never explained proper beyond "lol, mmo rp".

[D4wN]

So far I'm a big fan. I'm a very quick typer and have severe ADD so I get impatient with others if they aren't responding or I think they're alt-tabbed doing other things.. But seeing the indicators above their heads shows me that they are responding and I already find it helps me to be more patient.

My only concern is that it also shows the indicators when you're whispering. While I think that many of the metagame concerns are miniscule, I think this one might be a bigger concern for me personally. I don't like the idea that I might be standing around the corner whispering to someone (especially if that person is in stealth) and people using that to metagame.

[Fain]

For someone who doesn't see much difference - how is Arelith/PW roleplay different from any other MMO RP?

That is a lengthy discussion (and criticism) of the current server ecosystem that would derail the topic of the thread to elaborate on. If you're genuinely curious I can send it as a PM, but as a summary relevant to the thread:

Mechanical changes do impact how players, and ultimately player characters, interact with one another. As the game changes little by little to resemble MMOs mechanically by introducing common features from them, the way players interact with one another has degraded.

As an example, writs have made levelling a character far less hellish which I consider a wonderful quality of life change. I played before writs were a feature, and its certainly an improvement over circlegrinding spawns.

Introducing writs turned certain areas into "writ zones" in the minds of players though, and now if you have been exploring the island and end up running into someone doing writs it brings up OOC concerns - am I impacting this person's progress by being here? Should I help them kill that monster they seem to have trouble with, or would that interfere with their kill count for the writ? Am I reducing their xp by being here? How can I explain IC why my character who would reasonably want to help a troubled adventurer is doing nearly nothing while this person is struggling to survive? Etc. . .

Character decisions and interactions shifted because (good) players don't want to ruin each other's gameplay experience, but this compels behavior that doesn't fit well in an always IC RP environment.

That is not a very organic roleplay session. That feels like I'm playing WoW and I'm trying not to tap someone else's kills. Quackers are not as directly IC as writs, but the ability to see when a player is typing will inevitably influence how player characters interact with each other in very artificial ways - because everyone will have a heads up on who is going to say something next, and whether intentional or not that will influence how others respond.

[Dreams]

Are the dots included in WYSIWYG in the sense that it’s IC information that a character is talking?

[Xaevothoslongjourney]

I very much like this added feature. I play on a Steam Deck so I do not use a keyboard. Consequently I type very slowly. As a result, whenever I am in a dungeon and people engage me in conversation, it takes a while for me to respond. The majority of people I encountered in this scenario, never wait for me to respond and usually run past me even though I am standing still writing a response. I found this experience very frustrating.

My hope is that with the Quacker above my head, these people realize I am just typing slowly and not ignoring them. So my experience is that people rarely wait for me to type a response. So this Quacker system should resolve this.

I strongly feel that the positives as presented by this feature far outweigh the negatives. I find it very freeing to be able to show people that I am in fact engaged and typing, and not just ignoring people and speed running dungeons. I just type slowly.

[Anomandaris]

My feedback more is on how this was implemented rather than the feature itself.

It’s great to see an option for people on a feature like this rather than forced adoption.

Also it’s great that you did it as a soft launch to test and solicit feedback before making a final decision. This is far more value aligned as a development approach in a community based environment.

I have been fairly exhausted with all the fundamental changes to mechanics. It has felt for a while like dev focus was far more on balance and new classes than things that enhance the immersion or rp experience. E.G. don’t think we need new clases when there are so many options and existing issues with current classes, and new classes create new balance issues more often than not. I’ve always thought there should be more focus on content and features (like this one) that seek enhance the RP elements of the server, as it’s a RP server after all.

I’m not sure if/how I’ll use it but I’ll definitely give it a shot. Removing the issues with stealth, tells, illusions and whispers (if possible) will probably help increase adoption among players who are worried about metagaming.

Thanks for your hard work!

[Carrion Eater]

On release I felt negative towards it and was given the "shrug, try it" response. I planned on giving it a try anyway, since you never know if you'll end up enjoying it.

In advance, I don't type in big paragraphs. I also will type quickly more often than not. I break things up so that others have the opportunity to react to something I say or do. If I am not interrupted I will finish my piece and wait. I practice patience with responses because I know that sometimes it can take an extra minute to type something out. This is the natural flow of roleplay for me. It has never been an issue for my own experience.

Tried it in: one-on-one roleplay, dungeon roleplay, tavern roleplay, public space roleplay.

One-on-One Roleplay

In one of the one-on-ones, we hilariously kept faking each other out, and what would have been an in-depth scene just became a joke as I would see them start typing, so I'd stop. Then they'd stop. I'd wait 10 seconds and start again. Then they did too. So we both stopped and stared at each other, waiting for the dots to appear, completely dragging ourselves out of the scene.

In the other one, it just became "okay, you say something... Now I say something... You say something... Now I say something..."- which, that's good, right? But it was without the extra added flair of additional emotes to punctuate something spoken. This was to avoid signaling a big three-dot "STOP" sign at the other player. Turns out they were doing the same. They also felt pressured to type faster and rushed their responses, having seen how fast I type in the flow of things.

Outside of one-on-ones with new people, I was fine with somebody who I already roleplayed with and knew the writing flow of. The dots were funny, a little distracting, and ultimately did not add any benefit to the scene.

I will be turning it off for one-on-ones. When meeting new characters and getting a feel for their own flow of roleplay, I may consider using the partial visibility option to see when the other starts typing but obfuscate my own.

Dungeon Roleplay

I tend to stop and roleplay quick 1-3 minute scenes in dungeons a lot already. I have very rarely had an issue with getting people to stop and smell the flowers with me, outside of the occasional "MUST RUN! ALWAYS RUN! ONLY RUN!" group that is paying more attention to the location of the next mob pack than to the party members- which is fine, I work with it. Not everyone wants to roleplay in dungeons, and that's fine. Sometimes I don't want to, either. I adapt to what's desirable at the time.

Dungeon-running with it on consisted of several false flag stops. I would assume someone was typing only for them to actually have been sending a Tell. It was funny, but detracted from both our time and the cohesion of the scene. I have always been able to signal others without the "quack", so I can't personally see a point for me to leave it on here. I may consider the option where mine show to others, but I don't see anyone else's, to see if the extra visual helps drag their attention back.

I will either use the partial visibility option to show me typing but obfuscate others, or be turning it off for dungeon roleplay.

Tavern Roleplay

It was just a lot of visual noise. With so many people all in one place and everyone talking all the time all over the place, it felt unnecessary to have it on here. It just got in the way of screenshots.

I will be turning it off for tavern roleplay.

Public Space Roleplay

While passing through public spaces, I was able to see that people were talking to each other. Again, there was no real difference for me with or without quack visibility here. I already assume that people are roleplaying on the roleplaying server, so this didn't really add or detract anything from my own experience outside of visual noise.

While lingering in public spaces, it was the same scenario: people were talking to each other, as already expected, except now there are dots.

I will be turning it off for public space roleplay.

Overall Thoughts

Is it terrible? No.

Is it for me? No.

edit: could I get used to it? Yes, probably!

That said, I can see where it can benefit others, even if it doesn't benefit my own roleplay style in any conclusive way.

As long as it remains entirely optional and does not become an enforced requirement, I don't see an issue.

Thanks for putting it out on a trial period.

[AstralUniverse]

Are the dots included in WYSIWYG in the sense that it’s IC information that a character is talking?

Hell no.

The dots are OOC. it could also be someone typing a Tell or a in the DM channel. Also maybe they're just cooking an elaborate emote with no intention to post it unless XYZ happens.

[Griefmaker]

The dots are OOC. it could also be someone typing a Tell or a in the DM channel. Also maybe they're just cooking an elaborate emote with no intention to post it unless XYZ happens.

My preference would be for the dots to only show during normal IG chat talking and maybe yelling. But not whispering, tells, or anything else.

When I play, I often use tells thanking people for RP, answering questions of others, etc. And ended up turning off the quackers simply because it looked like my character was constantly getting ready to say something...when he was not.

Same goes with whispering. Plotting with comrades in whispers during an encounter when you constantly see the dots above one's head when the other party is standing before you realizing something is up and may accidentally or intentionally metagame.

Otherwise, I do kind of like the quackers simply for when playing with slower typers so I know they are still typing a response. I am a fast typer so could bust out 3 full paragraphs before some slower typers has even finished half of one not realizing they were trying to respond to what my character said.

[Eyeliner]

I don’t think they should indicate tells at all, or OOC chat in DM channels. If someone isn’t saying something you’d hear you shouldn’t see them “talking”

I don’t even think they should show if someone is whispering but that seems more negotiable.

[AstralUniverse]

The dots are OOC. it could also be someone typing a Tell or a in the DM channel. Also maybe they're just cooking an elaborate emote with no intention to post it unless XYZ happens.

My preference would be for the dots to only show during normal IG chat talking and maybe yelling. But not whispering, tells, or anything else.

When I play, I often use tells thanking people for RP, answering questions of others, etc. And ended up turning off the quackers simply because it looked like my character was constantly getting ready to say something...when he was not.

Same goes with whispering. Plotting with comrades in whispers during an encounter when you constantly see the dots above one's head when the other party is standing before you realizing something is up and may accidentally or intentionally metagame.

Otherwise, I do kind of like the quackers simply for when playing with slower typers so I know they are still typing a response. I am a fast typer so could bust out 3 full paragraphs before some slower typers has even finished half of one not realizing they were trying to respond to what my character said.

I definitely agree with you. The dots simply seem to appear whenever the chat ui is 'active' with a cursor. The game cannot tell what it is you're tpying, whether or not there's a /w before the rest of the text, or anything else at all, by the looks of it, and it's highly inconvenient, but the command that switches it on/off seems accessible enough that maybe it's just fine.