The Removal of (Slave)

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Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: The Removal of (Slave)

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire »

I'm not a fan of the slavery system. All my reasons have already been mentioned so I won't bore people with repeating and just leave it at that. That being said, I know people do like it or it wouldn't be a thing, so I just leave it alone.

I am a fan of controversial topics though, so I will address the underlying statement made by a handful, which basically amounts to arelith looking racist for having a slave system. I got two things on that.

1) Slavery is as old as civilization and has always come down to economics and power. Since the oldest civilizations our history accounts for were run by people of color, and they all had slaves in some form or another, applying racism to it can't help but be wrong. Hell, even the last bastion of slavery, good ole dixie USA, was not a racist construct. Elements of racism, in particular the belief that the african man was not as evolved as the euro man, allowed it to continue well past its societal expiration date, but at its core it was just europeans buying africans that were already enslaved by other africans because they lost war x, y, or z.

2) Assuming that people of color will see slavery in the game and get triggered is a form of racism in itself. It's the racism of low expectations. So, while I think people's hearts are in the right place, they are going about it wrong. If you want to make sure you aren't doing anything racist, it's pretty easy, just treat everyone the same as you would anyone else regardless of race/religion/whatever. Acting like they need you to save them through virtue signaling is not that.

Floral Shoppe
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Re: The Removal of (Slave)

Post by Floral Shoppe »

I really don't think many people are virtual signaling... It's quite possible they're legitimately uncomfortable about Arelith's handling of it.

There are other common things as old as time we don't delve into or we skirt around because it's bad taste or we're not really equipped to do the subject justice. Sexism, misogyny, assault are off limits-- I mean as an example most half-orcs in FR would probably be the product of orc raids but that's not something we're really supposed to talk about. For some, slavery is in this territory and I think it's a fair point. I'd lean towards renaming it both for this reason and to open up the system to other kinds of RP, but I know it's not my choice.

Again I'm not saying remove slavery, I think it's too ingrained in the Underdark to be taken away. But I don't think it's fair to malign everyone who's a bit skeeved by its presence here and say so. I mean, there's no reason to insult people for having opinions.

Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: The Removal of (Slave)

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire »

Floral Shoppe wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 1:48 am

But I don't think it's fair to malign everyone who's a bit skeeved by its presence here and say so. I mean, there's no reason to insult people for having opinions.

Thats not what I did though. Most of the opinions in this thread don't go anywhere near this stuff, there are just a handful that took it there. If I wanted to insult them, I probably would have quoted what they wrote, but like I said I know their heart is in the right space. I just think that if your fight against racism actually comes across as a little racist, you might want to rethink your strategy. I think that's solid advice, but you and everyone else are free to take it or leave it as you choose.

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Re: The Removal of (Slave)

Post by godhand- »

Floral Shoppe wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 1:48 am

, assault are off limits--

Asssault? You mean violence? its the core theme of the game. Haven't you been killbashed?

the only reason assault isn't a theme thats discussed is because 90% of the server are playing the main character/hero who never loses a fight, and if they do they ignore it/pretend it didn't happen.... just wait until they have strength in numbers and then roll on up.

Cortex wrote: Addendum, the immediate above post by godhand is wrong in about every aspect, as were most of his other posts.
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Irongron
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Re: The Removal of (Slave)

Post by Irongron »

I do not, personally, conflate violence and slavery within the fantasy setting (or in video games generally) with that of real world trauma any more than I would connect Superman rescuing people from burning building with the recent tragedies in California.

I fully understand that, particularly for those players in the US the abhorrent legacy of slavery, continues to influence both culture and politics, yet I must once again state that slavery as featured in the Forgotten Realms setting has absolutely nothing to do with colonialism, and is instead reflective of it being a core part of the ancient world, from the Roman Empire to the Barbary Pirates and Egypt of the Pharoes

Classic fantasy is, in many respects, faux historical fiction, especially in the Realms with nations modelled after ancient and medieval civilizations. There are heroes, and there are injustices. There are literally demons and devils to torturing their way through eternity, and tragic back stories abound (Conan the Barbarian was a slave). As I have said before will not be removing slavery from Arelith, it is a core part of the setting. That being said, any racism, sexism, or far right hateful behaviour from our players should be reported and will be met with an immediate and permanent ban.

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