Skaljard Area Ruling Amendment?

[ExpectoDraconis]

Conversation was sparked in the Skaljard discord channel regarding items from Arelith and their permissibility on Skal because of how the following is written, specifically the bolded line:

Skaljard is designed as a low level experience and is level capped to 19. If you’re at level nineteen and you wish to progress further, you will need to make plans to leave. You may remain on Skal at a maximum level of 19, no exceptions. You’re allowed to visit Skaljard, but doing so at a high level means that you’re agreeing not to disrupt the low level experience.

Rules for visiting Skal post level 19
Keep your visit brief. A day or two at most and do not attempt to return immediately following your departure.
No "Big Brothers". You may assist with writs vocally, with your written dialog. Don't complete it on the behalf of the Skal players.
Do NOT disrupt the economy of Skal. You should not be handing out equipment or gold, you should not be a charitable master crafting everything or undercutting everyone. (The materials might be easy for you to get, but don't flaunt it)
You are neither the Hero or the Villian of Skal. Do not try to enforce your own version of justice, vengeance or villainy onto the Skal population.
You break any of these, you will be removed from Skal. If you keep returning to do much of the same, you will be reduced to level 19 indefinitely!

While it is clear that undercutting in a competitve manner or offering up items, gold, and crafting for free is a rulebreak, there is still room for clarity.
En lieu of having players speculate about Skal's economy, items, etcetera I propose an amendment be made by the Team.

Specifically players want to know:

• Can level 20+ characters sell items that are not available on Skal while visiting? i.e. Runic items, Adamantine, Wisp Bottles, Parrot Chalice, Fantasy Drugs, Clothing and Jewellery with a Unique Inventory Art, and the newly added Exotic Pets.

• Are level 20+ characters barred from trade with Skal entirely? If not, what restrictions apply?

• Are level 20+ characters barred from assisting with crafting if they are being paid?

[Zaon]

In the spirit of constructive discussion based upon sound arguments, consider:

1. Adamantine. The one argument that comes up, is that it may be disruptive to the economy. To which I ask Disruptive how? It is priced prohibitively high. No one is going to be skipping green steel/ mithral gear to be able to buy four ingots of adamantine at close to 500k. Mithral/Greensteel armor for instance only costs 10-13 bags.

Is it crazy to think that Adamantine and Mithral occupy COMPLETELY different niches, and thus no disruption to economy is happening?

2. Secondly, some people have the idea that chars on Skal must not be "powerful". I again have to ask why? New character can start in Cordor or anywhere else, and he will be immediately jumping into environment of chars who spent MILLIONS on their gear.

Why Skal should be different? People Characters will never be equal in terms of gear / abilities. Someone is always going to have advantage over the other character, with adamantine or not. So why do some people want equality so badly? I don't know. But it's in no way realistic and does not reflect the server-at-large situation in the slightest.

Is that an insane idea to let characters be whatever they want to be?

The appeal of Skal is its unregulated and lawless nature. It shouldn't be a kindergarten beyond the enforced max 19lvl rule.

3. Importing adamantine allows for interesting role-play opportunities, merchantry, and such. Is there a purpose in taking that all away?

[PowerWord Rage]

I think maybe, it's to encourage Players not to stay in Skaljard forever?
Of course you've the choice to do that and here comes the limitations.

[wanderingwind]

Currently the problem is that people breaking/abusing those rules are favoured and benefits from disrupting the 'isolated economy of Skal':

1. 'importing' Adamantine by selling it 50-100% more than in other regions is is market abuse by breaking the rules for to benefit character in a way that requires almost 0 effort. People knowing they can get adamantine in Skal will skip certain items (e.g. mithral bracers) causing in fact heavy interference to 'internal balance'.

2. People 'importing' items that are available in Skal are just abusing the small market to leech gold from this are for characters from outside of Skal. Example: Instead of crafting fairly Greater Catalyst you can 'import' them from outside for price lower than 8k while in Skal the price used to be 10-12k. It Already took place and the market took damage by lowering prices to 10k and less because of sudden import of large quantities of those items. (ofc. it is fine that this price would drop even to 7k - but it should be done as internal economy effort - NOT THE IMPORT)

3. It is not only the market itself - because people are also importing stuff in buddy circles just to empower their characters - so they just use those items and is never visible on the market and remains mostly hidden issue. For me personally it is very low issue but still it happens - and is clearly against the rules.

I would strongly vote to cut off Skal from the rest of the server as it is very simple solution and solves all issues in one go.
If the area is designed as initial newbie friendly sandbox I don't see a need to allow epic characters to interfere this area.
What is the purpose of allowing people those trips since almost all of them are like:
"ok I will bring my buddy the stuff he needs, meanwhile he will give me 500 vials of dragon blood - so sweet"
"ok I am struggling selling my resources here, so let's go to Skal and sell it easily for 150% of the value"
Great business area? Isn't it?
Admin really needs to open this area for all items or just cut it off - because they have no tools to respect the rules.
Respecting rules by waiting for players reports in astrolabe when they notice something is no solution at all and take too much time for both sides (and also buddy transfers remains unnoticed because they don't show smuggled items).

If you really want to leave some way to visit this place it could be some hidden portal mechanism only for people with RPR 4+ (I guess they would not mess with this area in such lame way as it is happening now)

Current example:
There is shop in Skal with 2 adamantine ingots 120k each.
Is it allowed?
No? You don't have tools - it is happening and it is bad and people breaking rules are benefiting from it.
Yes? Ok then I feel bad too - because I would like to have adamantine too - but not for this silly price -so I feel encouraged to import more like this then use it and maybe sell it - then it leads to 'open market' in fact.

[LordofThunder]

(1) I would think that by limiting characters to level 19 on Skal is meant to create some sort of balance for the area - which includes dungeons, power level of characters and available resources.

(2) In that regard, there was a deliberate choice to not have Adamantine and runic materials in Skal by the Arelith staff.

(3) Why is a level 20 character categorically impeded to roam around freely and assist characters lvling up but a lvl 19 adamantine/runes up to their teeth character are given a hall pass?

Isn't importing materials that are available only outside of Skal, such as runes and adamantine, just a way to circumvent (1), (2) and (3)?

[Zaon]

Currently the problem is that people breaking/abusing those rules are favoured and benefits from disrupting the 'isolated economy of Skal':

1. 'importing' Adamantine by selling it 50-100% more than in other regions is is market abuse by breaking the rules for to benefit character in a way that requires almost 0 effort. People knowing they can get adamantine in Skal will skip certain items (e.g. mithral bracers) causing in fact heavy interference to 'internal balance'.

2. People 'importing' items that are available in Skal are just abusing the small market to leech gold from this are for characters from outside of Skal. Example: Instead of crafting fairly Greater Catalyst you can 'import' them from outside for price lower than 8k while in Skal the price used to be 10-12k. It Already took place and the market took damage by lowering prices to 10k and less because of sudden import of large quantities of those items. (ofc. it is fine that this price would drop even to 7k - but it should be done as internal economy effort - NOT THE IMPORT)

3. It is not only the market itself - because people are also importing stuff in buddy circles just to empower their characters - so they just use those items and is never visible on the market and remains mostly hidden issue. For me personally it is very low issue but still it happens - and is clearly against the rules.

I would strongly vote to cut off Skal from the rest of the server as it is very simple solution and solves all issues in one go.
If the area is designed as initial newbie friendly sandbox I don't see a need to allow epic characters to interfere this area.
What is the purpose of allowing people those trips since almost all of them are like:
"ok I will bring my buddy the stuff he needs, meanwhile he will give me 500 vials of dragon blood - so sweet"
"ok I am struggling selling my resources here, so let's go to Skal and sell it easily for 150% of the value"
Great business area? Isn't it?
Admin really needs to open this area for all items or just cut it off - because they have no tools to respect the rules.
Respecting rules by waiting for players reports in astrolabe when they notice something is no solution at all and take too much time for both sides (and also buddy transfers remains unnoticed because they don't show smuggled items).

If you really want to leave some way to visit this place it could be some hidden portal mechanism only for people with RPR 4+ (I guess they would not mess with this area in such lame way as it is happening now)

Current example:
There is shop in Skal with 2 adamantine ingots 120k each.
Is it allowed?
No? You don't have tools - it is happening and it is bad and people breaking rules are benefiting from it.
Yes? Ok then I feel bad too - because I would like to have adamantine too - but not for this silly price -so I feel encouraged to import more like this then use it and maybe sell it - then it leads to 'open market' in fact.

A lot to unpack in your post, a little bit chaotic but let’s try to examine what you said point by point.

1. Your idea that selling adamantine at 50-100% value is “bad”

My friend, this is the foundation of profiteering evil merchant roleplay. Your char imports something that only he has access to and charge exorbitant prices for it. It is roleplay, and completely fine.

You go on about this “unfairness” in your post for quite some time, the point stands however - your character is not entitled to get good prices. Whatever led you to believe your character should be treated fairly???

2. You go on talking about market impact of adamantine. You mention mithral bracers. Now let’s examine facts.

Mithral bracers cost between 8 to 10 thousand gold. Adamantine bracer costs 120 bags. Mithral bracer stats are damage reduction 5/+2 and unisave +1. Adamantine bracer stats 5/+3 no unisave.

Comparing those stats it’s pretty evident majority of players who make up the economy of skal will not spend 12 times more gold on adamantine bracer for +1 on damage resistance.

Once again, an item priced at 120k gold is never going to take away demand from a mithral bracer. You can earn coin for it in 3 writs max. Try grinding for 120k.

There is no market impact, because price brackets are wildly different.

I can agree with you on the catalyst point. Adamantine is totally different.

3. Next you complain about the “buddy circles”. This is a very lousy argument because there is absolutely no way to prove or disprove that. If you suspect something rule breaking, report it.

You go on about this “buddy circle” thing and mention dragon blood, which I assure you, mainlanders have been buying and grinding on skal long before you or I first step foot there. Nothing wrong in there.

4. Now you end your argument with a very important admission — you want adamantine too, just not at that price.

There it is, you just want a piece of the action!

Guess what, no one is stopping you. Instead of venting frustration here on issues that happen In Character, you can always do the productive thing of hustling for adamantine yourself.

BTW 2 ingots already gone, from one of the shops at least. gotta earn that coin!!

TL;DR No one IC owes your character fair treatment, none should be feeling entitled to that. Adamantine is a niche ultra luxury product not affecting mithral in the slightest. If you say you want adamantine go out there and get it man!

[Xerah]

The problem with your entire post is that it’s not supposed to be allowed but some people do it and get away with it. And there is murky rules about it.

Skal would be much better if people couldn’t visit.

[Zaon]

The problem with your entire post is that it’s not supposed to be allowed but some people do it and get away with it. And there is murky rules about it.

Skal would be much better if people couldn’t visit.

The point of this is we trying to get a clear final ruling in announcements on whether adamantine is allowed or not, because there have been multiple individual rulings contradicting each other, and contradicting the practice because adamantine is still being sold/brought in to skal.
I am also providing arguments as to why I think it’s not disruptive.

This has been causing a great drama and holy war on skal discord for a while now, and I want it to end in a definitive unambiguous ruling.

Is it a crazy idea to want a crystal clear rule?

[wanderingwind]

Currently the problem is that people breaking/abusing those rules are favoured and benefits from disrupting the 'isolated economy of Skal':

1. 'importing' Adamantine by selling it 50-100% more than in other regions is is market abuse by breaking the rules for to benefit character in a way that requires almost 0 effort. People knowing they can get adamantine in Skal will skip certain items (e.g. mithral bracers) causing in fact heavy interference to 'internal balance'.

2. People 'importing' items that are available in Skal are just abusing the small market to leech gold from this are for characters from outside of Skal. Example: Instead of crafting fairly Greater Catalyst you can 'import' them from outside for price lower than 8k while in Skal the price used to be 10-12k. It Already took place and the market took damage by lowering prices to 10k and less because of sudden import of large quantities of those items. (ofc. it is fine that this price would drop even to 7k - but it should be done as internal economy effort - NOT THE IMPORT)

3. It is not only the market itself - because people are also importing stuff in buddy circles just to empower their characters - so they just use those items and is never visible on the market and remains mostly hidden issue. For me personally it is very low issue but still it happens - and is clearly against the rules.

I would strongly vote to cut off Skal from the rest of the server as it is very simple solution and solves all issues in one go.
If the area is designed as initial newbie friendly sandbox I don't see a need to allow epic characters to interfere this area.
What is the purpose of allowing people those trips since almost all of them are like:
"ok I will bring my buddy the stuff he needs, meanwhile he will give me 500 vials of dragon blood - so sweet"
"ok I am struggling selling my resources here, so let's go to Skal and sell it easily for 150% of the value"
Great business area? Isn't it?
Admin really needs to open this area for all items or just cut it off - because they have no tools to respect the rules.
Respecting rules by waiting for players reports in astrolabe when they notice something is no solution at all and take too much time for both sides (and also buddy transfers remains unnoticed because they don't show smuggled items).

If you really want to leave some way to visit this place it could be some hidden portal mechanism only for people with RPR 4+ (I guess they would not mess with this area in such lame way as it is happening now)

Current example:
There is shop in Skal with 2 adamantine ingots 120k each.
Is it allowed?
No? You don't have tools - it is happening and it is bad and people breaking rules are benefiting from it.
Yes? Ok then I feel bad too - because I would like to have adamantine too - but not for this silly price -so I feel encouraged to import more like this then use it and maybe sell it - then it leads to 'open market' in fact.

A lot to unpack in your post, a little bit chaotic but let’s try to examine what you said point by point.

1. Your idea that selling adamantine at 50-100% value is “bad”

My friend, this is the foundation of profiteering evil merchant roleplay. Your char imports something that only he has access to and charge exorbitant prices for it. It is roleplay, and completely fine.

You go on about this “unfairness” in your post for quite some time, the point stands however - your character is not entitled to get good prices. Whatever led you to believe your character should be treated fairly???

2. You go on talking about market impact of adamantine. You mention mithral bracers. Now let’s examine facts.

Mithral bracers cost between 8 to 10 thousand gold. Adamantine bracer costs 120 bags. Mithral bracer stats are damage reduction 5/+2 and unisave +1. Adamantine bracer stats 5/+3 no unisave.

Comparing those stats it’s pretty evident majority of players who make up the economy of skal will not spend 12 times more gold on adamantine bracer for +1 on damage resistance.

Once again, an item priced at 120k gold is never going to take away demand from a mithral bracer. You can earn coin for it in 3 writs max. Try grinding for 120k.

There is no market impact, because price brackets are wildly different.

I can agree with you on the catalyst point. Adamantine is totally different.

3. Next you complain about the “buddy circles”. This is a very lousy argument because there is absolutely no way to prove or disprove that. If you suspect something rule breaking, report it.

You go on about this “buddy circle” thing and mention dragon blood, which I assure you, mainlanders have been buying and grinding on skal long before you or I first step foot there. Nothing wrong in there.

4. Now you end your argument with a very important admission — you want adamantine too, just not at that price.

There it is, you just want a piece of the action!

Guess what, no one is stopping you. Instead of venting frustration here on issues that happen In Character, you can always do the productive thing of hustling for adamantine yourself.

BTW 2 ingots already gone, from one of the shops at least. gotta earn that coin!!

TL;DR No one IC owes your character fair treatment, none should be feeling entitled to that. Adamantine is a niche ultra luxury product not affecting mithral in the slightest. If you say you want adamantine go out there and get it man!

You are wrong, it is not about me just wanting adamantine or other stuff.
I am not importing it because I think is is breaking rules - I just want to clarify rules -open market / blocked market.
I just don't agree on current situation - where rule breakers are favored over honest players.

And if it not legal I really would like to block Skal - because people are proving all over again that they are and they will break those rules and admins has no log-tools to prevent it.

[Zaon]

Currently the problem is that people breaking/abusing those rules are favoured and benefits from disrupting the 'isolated economy of Skal':

1. 'importing' Adamantine by selling it 50-100% more than in other regions is is market abuse by breaking the rules for to benefit character in a way that requires almost 0 effort. People knowing they can get adamantine in Skal will skip certain items (e.g. mithral bracers) causing in fact heavy interference to 'internal balance'.

2. People 'importing' items that are available in Skal are just abusing the small market to leech gold from this are for characters from outside of Skal. Example: Instead of crafting fairly Greater Catalyst you can 'import' them from outside for price lower than 8k while in Skal the price used to be 10-12k. It Already took place and the market took damage by lowering prices to 10k and less because of sudden import of large quantities of those items. (ofc. it is fine that this price would drop even to 7k - but it should be done as internal economy effort - NOT THE IMPORT)

3. It is not only the market itself - because people are also importing stuff in buddy circles just to empower their characters - so they just use those items and is never visible on the market and remains mostly hidden issue. For me personally it is very low issue but still it happens - and is clearly against the rules.

I would strongly vote to cut off Skal from the rest of the server as it is very simple solution and solves all issues in one go.
If the area is designed as initial newbie friendly sandbox I don't see a need to allow epic characters to interfere this area.
What is the purpose of allowing people those trips since almost all of them are like:
"ok I will bring my buddy the stuff he needs, meanwhile he will give me 500 vials of dragon blood - so sweet"
"ok I am struggling selling my resources here, so let's go to Skal and sell it easily for 150% of the value"
Great business area? Isn't it?
Admin really needs to open this area for all items or just cut it off - because they have no tools to respect the rules.
Respecting rules by waiting for players reports in astrolabe when they notice something is no solution at all and take too much time for both sides (and also buddy transfers remains unnoticed because they don't show smuggled items).

If you really want to leave some way to visit this place it could be some hidden portal mechanism only for people with RPR 4+ (I guess they would not mess with this area in such lame way as it is happening now)

Current example:
There is shop in Skal with 2 adamantine ingots 120k each.
Is it allowed?
No? You don't have tools - it is happening and it is bad and people breaking rules are benefiting from it.
Yes? Ok then I feel bad too - because I would like to have adamantine too - but not for this silly price -so I feel encouraged to import more like this then use it and maybe sell it - then it leads to 'open market' in fact.

A lot to unpack in your post, a little bit chaotic but let’s try to examine what you said point by point.

1. Your idea that selling adamantine at 50-100% value is “bad”

My friend, this is the foundation of profiteering evil merchant roleplay. Your char imports something that only he has access to and charge exorbitant prices for it. It is roleplay, and completely fine.

You go on about this “unfairness” in your post for quite some time, the point stands however - your character is not entitled to get good prices. Whatever led you to believe your character should be treated fairly???

2. You go on talking about market impact of adamantine. You mention mithral bracers. Now let’s examine facts.

Mithral bracers cost between 8 to 10 thousand gold. Adamantine bracer costs 120 bags. Mithral bracer stats are damage reduction 5/+2 and unisave +1. Adamantine bracer stats 5/+3 no unisave.

Comparing those stats it’s pretty evident majority of players who make up the economy of skal will not spend 12 times more gold on adamantine bracer for +1 on damage resistance.

Once again, an item priced at 120k gold is never going to take away demand from a mithral bracer. You can earn coin for it in 3 writs max. Try grinding for 120k.

There is no market impact, because price brackets are wildly different.

I can agree with you on the catalyst point. Adamantine is totally different.

3. Next you complain about the “buddy circles”. This is a very lousy argument because there is absolutely no way to prove or disprove that. If you suspect something rule breaking, report it.

You go on about this “buddy circle” thing and mention dragon blood, which I assure you, mainlanders have been buying and grinding on skal long before you or I first step foot there. Nothing wrong in there.

4. Now you end your argument with a very important admission — you want adamantine too, just not at that price.

There it is, you just want a piece of the action!

Guess what, no one is stopping you. Instead of venting frustration here on issues that happen In Character, you can always do the productive thing of hustling for adamantine yourself.

BTW 2 ingots already gone, from one of the shops at least. gotta earn that coin!!

TL;DR No one IC owes your character fair treatment, none should be feeling entitled to that. Adamantine is a niche ultra luxury product not affecting mithral in the slightest. If you say you want adamantine go out there and get it man!

You are wrong, it is not about me just wanting adamantine or other stuff.
I am not importing it because I think is is breaking rules - I just want to clarify rules -open market / blocked market.
I just don't agree on current situation - where rule breakers are favored over honest players.

And if it not legal I really would like to block Skal - because people are proving all over again that they are and they will break those rules and admins has no log-tools to prevent it.

It's not a rule, it's never been a rule. Have you been playing Skal at all? Adamantine is imported pretty much every thaw. Admins do have log tools and they have every means to enforce rules.

Refer to Queen Titania's last message on discord. The team is discussing this, and will get back to us with definitive ruling (which means there hasn't been one before, hence, no rule you keep bringing up)

[Ping14]

Just to add on mithral:

Mithral equipments are mostly skipped, atleast by me.
Greensteel bracers are natively runic, mithral just provide +1 uni save with no rune, addy is a different thing since it gives you the +2 on stats which is key to most builds. Mithral armor is just a fancier +2 armors that you can find in almost any dungeon, some of the named "found" armors are also useable (Delver's). Found armor can also be god-save enchanted and runeless - explaining the little need for mithral.

As for weapons, Its greensteel -> named weapons for me usually. Or a runic enchanted "found" item. Addy weapons just can't compete with named weapons, and barely competes with "found" items (even scimmy and rapier have decent found items). Addy ingot/ore is used for most of these named weapons though.

On market:

I usually just shrug it off, evil merchants, evil prices - and if its cheap, usually where they came from has evil roots. Cliques and buddies passing around addy is difficult to prove. Keep in character in character, don't like the prices, wait till you go out of Skaljard. Staying in Skaljard? - Ask around and find out. Its difficult to seperate in-character to OOC though, as some of our own feelings slips through the cracks of our keyboards. But in the end, its a story focused game - make your toon, make your story. Not having fun anymore? Burnt out? Give it a break - as the loading screen says, "Arelith can be fun, if you're feeling worn out, there are other servers in the vault, give one a try!"

[PowerWord Rage]

Alright...back to topic.
Barring visiting to Skaljard permanently isn't realistic. ( But a suggestion(idk) to shorten the time whereby Skaljard remains open, can be a possibility )
As for Adamantine flowing into Skaljard, i think it's fine?
This isn't regular because Skaljard is effectively impossible to access for a good long period of time every IG year and if i'm right, that's about 2 IRL month unless someone here is telling me that there's a PC that keeps so much Adamantine enough to supply for the 2 months during when traveling to Skaljard is impossible.

As for big brothers etc etc, It's only possible when travelling to Skaljard opens for that particular window ( 2 IRL months ) and then, it's back to being an island of their own. If anyone actually manage to enter Skaljard during the period whereby the sea is shutdown, it's definitely illegally done so ( through using server inter-logging or whatever abuse ) because the limit of level 19 effectively makes even yoinking impossible.

Tbh, i don't see as a big issue
If someone hoards enough adamantine to supply for that 2 IRL month closed window period, good on them. I don't see how it can happen anyway.

[wanderingwind]

Alright...back to topic.
Barring visiting to Skaljard permanently isn't realistic. ( But a suggestion(idk) to shorten the time whereby Skaljard remains open, can be a possibility )
As for Adamantine flowing into Skaljard, i think it's fine?
This isn't regular because Skaljard is effectively impossible to access for a good long period of time every IG year and if i'm right, that's about 2 IRL month unless someone here is telling me that there's a PC that keeps so much Adamantine enough to supply for the 2 months during when traveling to Skaljard is impossible.

As for big brothers etc etc, It's only possible when travelling to Skaljard opens for that particular window ( 2 IRL months ) and then, it's back to being an island of their own. If anyone actually manage to enter Skaljard during the period whereby the sea is shutdown, it's definitely illegally done so ( through using server inter-logging or whatever abuse ) because the limit of level 19 effectively makes even yoinking impossible.

Tbh, i don't see as a big issue
If someone hoards enough adamantine to supply for that 2 IRL month closed window period, good on them. I don't see how it can happen anyway.

This is not 2 RL moths for sure. I think I have seen some characters visiting Skal at least 3 times per RL month.
And yes - if this is not big issue just make rules clear that this is allowed.

[Edens_Fall]

Personally I don't see a reason why PCs are allowed to return to Skal after lvl 19. As it is, I mostly see them come to sell merchandise, recruit for various settlement guard factions, or raid the island's resources. Unable to counter a group of lvl 30 PCs, the locals just put up with it until they leave. Not unlike a tourist city on Alaska's coastal wilderness during the summer months when the cruise ships arrive. As for myself, I always just eye roll when noticing the various recruitment postings, fixtures, or recruiters on the street corner.

In short, my vote is to block return travel to skal. once a player leaves for the mainland, thats it. Let Skal be Skal, free from outside influence.

[ExpectoDraconis]

While there is lots of debate about what kind of ruling the playerbase would want, I want to remind all replying to this thread that the intention of this feedback is to request a clearer ruling on the matter of in-game items, which would be most appreciated for the sake of transparency regardless of opinions on adamantine and level 20+ characters on Skal.

If you support this, you should say you're in favor and be ready to accept whatever decisions are made even if it's not what you're hoping for.

[PowerWord Rage]

Tbh, if your intention is to request for clearer rulings and not feedbacks ( despite this is a feedback forum ), you should have just sent a report to the Active DMs team instead on such request after all, you're seeking answers that only Arelith staff can answer.

[Zaon]

Tbh, if your intention is to request for clearer rulings and not feedbacks ( despite this is a feedback forum ), you should have just sent a report to the Active DMs team instead on such request after all, you're seeking answers that only Arelith staff can answer.

Both reasons actually. Since the Team is deliberating on this, good idea is to communicate how players feel

[Starbridge]

Personally I don't see a reason why PCs are allowed to return to Skal after lvl 19. As it is, I mostly see them come to sell merchandise, recruit for various settlement guard factions, or raid the island's resources. Unable to counter a group of lvl 30 PCs, the locals just put up with it until they leave. Not unlike a tourist city on Alaska's coastal wilderness during the summer months when the cruise ships arrive. As for myself, I always just eye roll when noticing the various recruitment postings, fixtures, or recruiters on the street corner.

In short, my vote is to block return travel to skal. once a player leaves for the mainland, thats it. Let Skal be Skal, free from outside influence.

As a player that has taken a couple of level 30 characters back to Skal, I have kept my being outside of the town/castle to a minimum. There is the occasional walk I will take to collect a node of iron, pick some seeds or whatever but I do try and leave the overall impact virtually non-existent and I have been getting better and better at it. As for other people... I don't see a problem with others coming to recruit. As for the people that are bringing over hordes of things to sell, the DMs will have to deal with that. Anything that I bring back to sell on Skal are usually things that can already be found--books, potions, gems, etc. I will, have an item of a bit more rarity every now and then, but it's not like I am bringing over stacks of adamantine and other large numbers of things not found on Skal.

If you see someone that you suspect is over 19, grinding and farming the island, get a screen shot and make your ticket.

Other character that I have loved taking to Skal is my 30 cleric where I stand in the village and offer healing.

While I agree with level 20+ characters having minimal impact on writ work. Most of the higher level gear is level 21 anyway, so importing adamantine to the island is damn near pointless for people that stay there long term pre level 20.

[Dr Mantis Toboggan MD]

Personally I don't see a reason why PCs are allowed to return to Skal after lvl 19. As it is, I mostly see them come to sell merchandise, recruit for various settlement guard factions, or raid the island's resources. Unable to counter a group of lvl 30 PCs, the locals just put up with it until they leave. Not unlike a tourist city on Alaska's coastal wilderness during the summer months when the cruise ships arrive. As for myself, I always just eye roll when noticing the various recruitment postings, fixtures, or recruiters on the street corner.

In short, my vote is to block return travel to skal. once a player leaves for the mainland, thats it. Let Skal be Skal, free from outside influence.

This. I can't really see a logical IC reason for sailing all the way to Skal in order to post a recruitment poster/recruit. It's an OOC response from knowing Skal is a low level zone and that those leaving will just so happen (for some curious reason) to arrive in Arelith at some point. The rules also force said tourists to behave OOC for example overlooking certain behaviors that they'd otherwise try to dissuade.

[LordofThunder]

I agree that in many instances RP will be overlooked. Like, if you are a lvl 21 + paladin or a cleric of a good aligned deity, what are you supposed to do if your daily friendly necromancer walks around the Skal square with their undead summons?

[Cnaym]

Hit smite and laugh.

No seriously, if you are on Skal during summertime and people are going out of their way to antagonize you, bonk'em.
You can always tell an animator to leave their undead at the gate or somesuch, most are looking for a fight if they parade them around and sometimes you end up picking a fight against someone too strong.

This doesn't mean you should stand guard around Skal and play law enforcement, but undead are such an easy yikes in the setting that people shouldn't need to hold back when they see them within the walls of a settlement that isn't flying Thay colors.

I remember a big event where the town was pretty much taken over by undead, that'd be a reasonable time as a lonely visitor to not speak up and just move on, but if you arrive with 15 paladins to advertise your friendship is magic group and someone keeps wobbling corpses to you it'd make no sense to ignore it and they should know better as well ^^

[Dr Mantis Toboggan MD]

Hit smite and laugh.

No seriously, if you are on Skal during summertime and people are going out of their way to antagonize you, bonk'em.
You can always tell an animator to leave their undead at the gate or somesuch, most are looking for a fight if they parade them around and sometimes you end up picking a fight against someone too strong.

This doesn't mean you should stand guard around Skal and play law enforcement, but undead are such an easy yikes in the setting that people shouldn't need to hold back when they see them within the walls of a settlement that isn't flying Thay colors.

I remember a big event where the town was pretty much taken over by undead, that'd be a reasonable time as a lonely visitor to not speak up and just move on, but if you arrive with 15 paladins to advertise your friendship is magic group and someone keeps wobbling corpses to you it'd make no sense to ignore it and they should know better as well ^^

From the rules for visiting Skal post level 19:

"You are neither the Hero or the Villian of Skal. Do not try to enforce your own version of justice, vengeance or villainy onto the Skal population."

Sure, if they are outright antagonizing you there's an excuse, ie hostiling you...but if Jonny Necro and his friends have decided necromancy is cool beans and they want to make it a local custom you'll need to lump it. By the rules, this would apply even without Thay flying the colors. What flys in Skal is for the locals to accept or deny.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's ever been a ruling on what Skaljard's NPCs find acceptable, it's always been a case of police yourselves and leave us (the NPCs alone).

[Cnaym]

I'd take the writs to bonk undead as evidence that they are generally seen as an unpleasent thing tbh.
There is also an entire castle with Garrison ontop of some crypts, not like the soldiers ever go out to guard anything else.

During events the Hovdinger in my experience stays calm till things get too loud, but then again he also wants us to kill stone people for his profits. He might be slightly open to bribes.

From what I know undead in the setting aren't fire and forget like normal spells. They stick around and spread, which is why people have an active interest to keep them in check or at least away from civilization.

Mind you that the entire counter argument for undead around Skal is a Banite winning a quarter auction. (I know and appreciate the Banites on Skal, but it usually boils down to "they let them have a chappel there so undead must be fine")

[Dr Mantis Toboggan MD]

I'd take the writs to bonk undead as evidence that they are generally seen as an unpleasent thing tbh.
There is also an entire castle with Garrison ontop of some crypts, not like the soldiers ever go out to guard anything else.

It's evidence they don't like hostile undead on their doorstep. Not evidence that they outright oppose all forms of necromancy/controlled undead.

As you say the Hovding is happy to send you off to kill good natured stone people for profit, happy to host a priest of the (Chaotic Evil) Furies, happy to host a church of Bane (known for utilizing the undead), happy to host a wizards tower intent on doing odd things to minotaurs.

From what I've seen, pretty much anything gets a pass, provided it's roleplayed well and not done to grief, hence theoretically a bunch of yucky necromancers could through right of might enforce everyone summons a zombie day, even if it's just flash in the pan 1 day event and epic paladin Pete would need to lump it where usually he'd be winding up the smiting arm.

Perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill and the chance is rare, but hey ho!

[But Will It Blend]

If you're a level 30 showing up to Skal to start problems for the players there, you should probably be removed. Or face consequences similar to what happens if you FAaFO in Shadowvar Trade Post or Dis.

Seriously. It's not meant to be for you, and you're not really supposed to be there. Even if it's 'What my character would do lmao'. You need to respect the setting. Arelith as a whole is way more insane with their religious fanaticism in most cases with things that would be common in other parts of the world.