Changes to lycanthropy?

[Azensor]

Putting this here before putting it to suggestions just to get some feedback on the idea.

So on the werewolf wiki page it has this on the last few paragraphs.
"A character with awareness of his condition retains his identity and does not lose control of his actions if he changes. However, each time he changes to his animal form, he must make a Will save (DC 15 + number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of his animal form in all shapes.

Once a character becomes aware of his affliction, he can now voluntarily attempt to change to animal or hybrid form, using the appropriate Control Shape check DC. An attempt is a standard action and can be made each round. Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediately and permanently changes the character’s alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope."

My suggestion and request, would be to change lycanthropy to have this mechanic so people could actually roleplay has a lycanthrope instead of just going wild when in shape.
If the concern is 'someone will just do the uwu im cute routine' then slap those people with a time-out

[Edens_Fall]

Would love to see a Major award lycanthropy race (would so give up my vampire for the chance to play one if that helps clarify my thoughts), though if I recall there are concerns about it from staff. Not sure exactly what those might be, but was last rumor I heard.

[Dreams]

It’s more or less been communicated through Kalopsia and Irongron that werewolves are supposed to not have any control. The system is set up to more or less stop any roleplay from happening and forces you into a PvP situation.

So I guess just make the most of what is there and do your best, I doubt any help is coming from the dev side to fix its issues.

I’d love to see a natural werewolf award option but the line against is usually something along the lines of “oh no what is the furries start playing werewolves and do weird rp”, which could be solved by DMs on a case by case rather than blocking off a whole story arc.

[Security_Blanket]

Maybe a special werewolf shape that druids can change into with a feat investment, and a choice between a few different were-creatures. Lycanthropy is suppose to be a curse and the RP doesn't have to be present only in werewolf form. You can RP sharper hearing and invest in Listen, a pack mentality, a love of meat and hate of silver, and once a month you lose control.

[Darkstorn42]

So, I have spoken about this in the past, but never made any official suggestions, but, I love were-creatures and shape-changers in general. I would love to see the addition of changelings (essentially have Rak shape change only to make it harder to know if someone is a Rak by mechanics) as well as a repolishing of the lycanthropy system. Since this is a lycanthropy discussion, I will try to keep my thoughts on that.

The biggest problems I see with the current system is that;
1) It is, if anything, not terribly dangerous and mostly an inconvenience for a PC if they catch it.
2) It is cured instantly and easily with little to no RP.
3) Any deeper RP about this 'dangerous curse' is often turned into 'why don't they cure it' because of (1) and (2)

My ideas that I have mentioned prior, but never put into a suggestion, to address these;
1a) Remove the ability to change on command.
b) Make the inflicted form strong and dangerous.
c) Reduce the rate of the 'go crazy' save slightly. but make the DC go up with every check. They should be failing it eventually.

This removes the ability to make 'were' builds for PvP, but leaves it more of a dangerous RP mechanic. It also allows more time for the player to type in between murder attempts. They should go crazy eventually, however. It /needs/ to be dangerous and subdual/death should really be the only way to deal with a rampaging were-creature.

2a) Make the lycanthropy curse work within the current curse system. Make the caster level for the curse pretty high so it is difficult to remove.
b) Delete the current cure method, it is ridiculously simple and easy.
c) Add a new method from crafting to cure the curse. Make it a little involved.

This would make having the curse more severe as it would take more than just 4 minutes to cure the curse. You would be required to find a PC with the skills to cure the curse via remove curse, or a PC with the proper crafting skill to craft a cure. This crafting recipe would likely include the current cure in some form. Ultimately all of this generates RP by requiring an effort to go out and find people to help you in the event of wanting to get cured.

3a) The goals here are to make this a CURSE and make it UNWANTED while increasing RP around it.
b) Add an award to start with a curable lycanthropy curse as a relatively low award. (normal/minor)
c) Add a true lycanthrope award that can inflict other players as a higher teir award (greater/major). Evil Lycans only and make it wolf, rat, and cat, the ones already in the game.

This is all about making more RP and making lycanthropy dangerous. Evil lycans only because we want to avoid cuddly werebear RP. It should never be acceptable to be a lycanthrope by the goodly people of Arelith, so that is why I would restrict it to evil only (maybe nuetral, but that is a stretch, IMO). Whether the true lycan inflicts people with scratches or with a special racial ability is up to the staff, but there should definitely by RP around creating a pack of cursed people around a true lycan, similar, yet wholey different, to vampire thralling.

Final thoughts;
Perhaps a special ritual/mechanic should be added for true lycan to grant cursed lycans the ability to auto save the 'go crazy' save for RP purposes of moving in a pack, but it should definitely be a temporary effect. Either way, my ultimate goal here is to make lycanthropy more involved RP by building out a bunch of mechanics around it, increase its impact on the server, and create more options for interesting character concepts and RP.

Thanks for coming to my were-TED talk.

[Azensor]

my only real gripe with current lycanthropy, is that i'd rather it be a tool to further rp/a story which..yea it kinda is right now has the cautionary 'dont get scratched' but thats it thats all..very meh imo

[Security_Blanket]

It should be harder to cure, and I'd rather and even higher DC so you NEVER gain control, not even for a round. What sucks is that if casters get it they're not even a threat because of their low BAB, in werewolf form they should get full BAB, and again, NO CONTROL.

[Azensor]

Why no control though? for me i'd rather have some control so i can actually rp/scare people in form instead of just perma pvp with it

[Security_Blanket]

Because it's a curse, and the nature of the curse turning you into a ravenous beast. You can roleplay it just fine, you'll just have trouble doing it in werewolf form, depending on how fast you type anyway. There are plenty of pop culture references of werewolves in their human forms you can draw upon for inspiration. That to me is one of the much cooler and undervalued parts of lycanthropy, it's not just once a month, the beast is always present in some form.

YOU DON'T NEED TO BE IN WEREWOLF FORM TO RP A WEREWOLF.

[Azensor]

Lycanthropy As An Affliction, srd reference

When a character contracts lycanthropy through a lycanthrope’s bite, no symptoms appear until the first night of the next full moon. On that night, the afflicted character involuntarily assumes animal form and forgets his or her own identity, temporarily becoming an NPC. The character remains in animal form, assuming the appropriate alignment, until the next dawn.

The character’s actions during this first episode are dictated by the alignment of its animal form. The character remembers nothing about the entire episode (or subsequent episodes) unless he succeeds on a DC 15 Wisdom check, in which case he becomes aware of his lycanthropic condition.

Thereafter, the character is subject to involuntary transformation under the full moon and whenever damaged in combat. He or she feels an overwhelming rage building up and must succeed on a Control Shape check (see below) to resist changing into animal form. Any player character not yet aware of his or her lycanthropic condition temporarily becomes an NPC during an involuntary change, and acts according to the alignment of his or her animal form.

A character with awareness of his condition retains his identity and does not lose control of his actions if he changes. However, each time he changes to his animal form, he must make a Will save (DC 15 + number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of his animal form in all shapes.

Once a character becomes aware of his affliction, he can now voluntarily attempt to change to animal or hybrid form, using the appropriate Control Shape check DC. An attempt is a standard action and can be made each round. Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediately and permanently changes the character’s alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope.

thats from the srd, so it can start has just a simple curse but if you /WILLINGLY/ change shape..you accept the curse and gain some measure of control over it

thats also referenced in the werewolf wiki section

[Dreams]

Players should be trusted to roleplay it appropriately. Otherwise what’s the point?

[Someone Lost]

If someone likes wereshape fantasy of murdering mobs in bad @ss werewolf then I'd say let them.

Arelith and rp servers exist to give players that freedom any other game cant deliver thanks to aurora engine and modding community.

The current implementation is bad, nobody likes game mechanics that take player control away, it just sucks. But it needs to be well thought system if it would be replaced how ever.

[Azensor]

Furry wannabes always asking for more control as they want to play a fluffy puppy rather than a cursed person, been debated to death and back short answer comes down to.
On Arelith it's a curse not a boon as such it comes with massive negatives.

That said I'm all for giving victims control of there shape as long there combat power and level is reduced to that of the npc werewolves until the curse is cured, at which point they can level up again.
Which would allow the furry wannabes to RP being a werewolf while shifted into fluffy mode, but would still be a curse limiting the characters power and growth until the curse is lifted.
Would also reflect the level of danger that werewolves present on Arelith which is zero to anyone over level 15.

This is first and foremost an rp server, so yes i would like to be able to tell the stories i /can/ tell even the ones that dont have a good-ending.
Has for the rest the srd already outlines a way to handle the curse the same outline that the current mechanics somewhat use.

[Ork]

We can trust players to use tools to make compelling stories. Problematic roleplay can be addressed by the DMs. Let's unlock lycanthropy. It is a very cool, gothic curse that deserves to be explored.

[Azensor]

depending on how difficult it is to setup they could honestly just put an extra bool on a accounts info something named like

CanBeLycan:True/False
If true: the account can contract lycanthropy of any type.
If false:the account cant contract lycanthropy of any type and is barred from it.
..or just tie lycanthropy to rpr..though that option feels weak to me personally

and tbh have the bool be set to True for default, then if people are stupid with lycan rp lock it to false.

[Iceborn]

I'm unsurprisingly a big fan of lycanthropes. And werebeasts in general.
At some point I'd like to work on this system to expand its scope - specifically with more weretypes, curse variants, innate lycans, the works. With Iron's permission of course - the feeling of lycanthropes and how they are perceived in the game is something that needs to be discussed carefully so we don't accidentally enable manpup RP, or give more things to the DMs to be on the lookout for.

But it's unlikely it'll happen soon. We have, uh, other things looming on the horizon first.

[Azensor]

Yeee its half why i'm not really bothering to post the suggestion just yet, because i know theres a big pile of other stuff(tm) thats already in the works

[chris a gogo]

Just so i understand you,you are suggesting a reward for wandering around fighting werewolves until you get cursed,then rather than doing the correct thing a character would do and get it cured, you want to use it as character defining and play a monster, that can shift when he wants and have a cool fun thing to do.
A thing that has required no role play no award no application and would have no negatives.

[Azensor]

Just so i understand you,you are suggesting a reward for wandering around fighting werewolves until you get cursed,then rather than doing the correct thing a character would do and get it cured, you want to use it as character defining and play a monster, that can shift when he wants and have a cool fun thing to do.
A thing that has required no role play no award no application and would have no negatives.

Your skipping over some of the details i've already mentioned but let me type them again for you:
1: If the changes i propose are put in, if the character /willingly/ changes shape, the characters alignment would be permanently shifted to whatever the lycanthropes alignment is.

1. Lycanthropes by nature are reveled and hated even among monsters, will gaining lycanthropy isnt heavy on rp what comes /AFTER/ that is heavy on rp.
2. If my proposed change went through the current lycanthrope i play, if they changed form near /ANY/ faction member would instantly have to either take the cure, or risk expulsion from the faction

So no it isnt all daisies and cute fluffy kittens, there are still risks involved even with the change i propose.

[Ruzuke]

My Malarite Druid did the proper thing and accepted the blessing of his deity. It was fun RP and it was fun story. Eventually people found out and killed him at which point I rolled the character.

[RedGiant]

I really liked the totem shape base of the old lycanthropes, simply because even low-ab casters could occasionally be terrifying, at least to a mid-level or below crew.

I'm for any solution that makes the concept even somewhat viable. I know why the current changes were made, but we're at a low-ebb of believability/useability/horror.

I have a nascent idea that there should be two-tiers to this thing.

• 5% Major Reward for Permanant Lycanthropy. Can control themselves. Can infect others. Cannot be cured.
• All others. Affliction. Cannot control themselves. Cannot infect others. Can be cured.

This is analogous to how Vampires currently work. While we're on the subject, wouldn't mind a relook of thralldom. Would be great if there were some perks that weren't game-breaking. Maybe switch out the meh-to-occasionally fatal CON bonus (since most PCs max CON anyhow) with more of a flavor/utility perk such as the vampiric ultravision. And while I am at it, make them pay for it with an auto-fail (or stun) to the Domination Gaze!

[chris a gogo]

Wasn't skipping over anything you have mentioned a scripted alignment change which IIRC is a big no no, but that could of changed these days.
And "Oh but if i get caught i could be kicked out of my faction!"
Which is a role play thing, and lets be clear here you are wanting to play a monster not a cursed person, but a monster that has it's "curse" be the focal point of it's existence.

Which is where this falls down for me, if you want to play a devil or a vampire your need a reward and an application.

For your proposed changes you need to wander around a midlevel area fighting spawns until you catch the "curse"

See the difference.

Im not against werewolves being a reward race.
I played a werewolf on a different server and it was tons of fun but I had to have a story and a goal planned out and submitted as an application and when it was achieved or failed as it turned out the character was done.

I don't think killing mob spawns until i get the curse a good story for defining a character and i never will, so i will have to disagree with your P.O.V.on this.

Peace out.

[Ork]

Natural Lycanthrope
Prerequisites:

Application required to be approved for this race.

Greater Award
Base race: Default Races
Abilities
+2 Wis
Hybrid Form (Considered Wild Shape for other Prerequisites)
Inflict Curse: Spread lycanthrope while in hybrid form on a successful touch attack at DC equal to 10 + CL/2 + Wisdom Modifier

ECL +0

Werewolf
+2 Hide/MS
+2 Listen

Wererat
+2 Hide/MS
+2 Bluff

Werebear
+2 Intimidate
+2 Discipline

Werelion
+2 Leadership
+2 Discipline

Werecat
+2 Hide/MS
+2 Spot

[Dreams]

Any chance this can be looked into by admins again? Kenji mentioned on discord that these long standing issues might be reconsidered.