Linking summoning to piety? (no exceptions)

[Thake]

What do you think about linking piety to summoning? I didn't throw that into the suggestion box yet, just scouting the opinions / give an idea what's going on in my twisted mind. I was mainly thinking about Druids (Animal Companion) and Warlocks (Infinite Balor (Lord) spam), could also apply to familiar.

Warlock Summon VI: -4.0%
Summon Creature IX: -4.0%
Animal Companion: -4.0%
Familiar: -4.0%

Warlock Summon V: -2.0%
Summon Creature VIII: -2.0%

Warlock Summon IV: -1.0%
Summon Creature VII: -1.0%

It would let Druids summon their Animal Companion not only once (twice if already summoned when resting) per rest and give the Warlock a minor trade off.

[DaTexican]

Id be ok with this. One of my greatest compaints as a druid is losing my animal companion to a server transition or something stupid like that. This way I could resummon it quickly, and at a cost that seems reasonable. This would limit druids in dungeons too cause most druids worship a nature god and you don't see plants kicking around in dungeons very often so you would have to manage it carefully. For warlocks? Got me beat, know nothing of the demon spawns

[Mayonnaise]

I'm a bit confused at what this is saying.

[DaTexican]

As it stands now, Warlocks can cast spells a infinite amount of times because of how they are set up. They can therefore just spam summoning balors at high lvs. He wants your "Peity" score to be tied to this, so that when you summon something (any summon creature spell or summon companion), it pulls from your peity as a resource, thus limiting the amount of spam one could to on a warlock, and giving Druids/wizards a slight buff/debuff in the fact that their companions could be re summoned easily, but if they were say a "Summoner", they would have to manage another resource.

[Mayonnaise]

Ah, I see. Thanks!

[Preacher]

one large issue I see is that both druids AND warlocks are not summoning their animal companions/demon or devil's based on their faithfulness to a god. Warlocks rp are as numerous as there are warlocks. some even fighting against those they are pacted to. Druids are able to befriend more and more powerful animal companions due to their own power, not their connection to a god.

[Mithradates]

one large issue I see is that both druids AND warlocks are not summoning their animal companions/demon or devil's based on their faithfulness to a god. Warlocks rp are as numerous as there are warlocks. some even fighting against those they are pacted to. Druids are able to befriend more and more powerful animal companions due to their own power, not their connection to a god.

Yes, I agree with this. A warlock's power isn't connected to the divine, and I don't see a problem with the infinite summons- honestly. The summons are a great supplement to the warlocks other weaknesses. I think the limitations of the animal companions are already notably restricted in their use of once per day.

Source

[Hunter548]

I dislike the idea thematically for warlocks, but some sort of limit on how often they can do it (While still retaining an infinite/day theoretical ability) so that dismissing or disabling the balor is actually a hindrance to the warlock, in PvE or PvP. A cooldown would be the best option to my mind, but maybe some sort of X/day, cast from HP otherwise effect would also be interesting.

[Preacher]

playing a warlock, trust me, getting my summons dismissed or disabled is a HUGE hindrence. and it takes time to cast another one, and often it takes a few seconds for them to respond to frantic commands to defend you lol.

Pvp wise, its the same as with any summons, you ignore them and kill the caster.
Pve wise, well there's all kinds of strategies and if the caster is actually casting anything npc's will often turn on them so they have to be careful. the infinite summons is not an i win button.

[Manabi]

I upboat the idea.

The only thing is - how low would it have to be before someone couldn't use a summon/familiar? 50? 0?

I think it's a great idea - but as some have said - it doesn't make sense as far as lore is concerned. But eh- I still think it's a good idea.

[DaTexican]

make it like 5-10% peity cost to do it and you already have created a balancing aspect as no one wants to lose the favor of their god and die because their god didnt save them or something like that

[Hunter548]

What about warlocks who don't worship what they're pacted to? What about warlocks who hate the divine in general?

[Thake]

I totally see the nonsens, concerning the lore. So the piety limitation probably doesn't make much sense for the Warlock summoning.

playing a warlock, trust me, getting my summons dismissed or disabled is a HUGE hindrence. and it takes time to cast another one, and often it takes a few seconds for them to respond to frantic commands to defend you lol.
Pvp wise, its the same as with any summons, you ignore them and kill the caster.
Pve wise, well there's all kinds of strategies and if the caster is actually casting anything npc's will often turn on them so they have to be careful. the infinite summons is not an i win button.

- I play a Warlock too, and if disabling / dismissal happens, I just summon a new companion.
- I'd say I am far from an awesome pet-master, regarding NWN. But you can easily foretell when your pet's going down. Simply look at the pet's AC and HP, as well as enemy attack rolls, attacks per round and damage and you can pretty precisely tell how many rounds your pet will stay alive. Usually, you don't wait until it's dead, but re-summon it at about 1/3 of HP. The sturdier your summon gets, the easier this is.
- PvP wise, you can always avoid PvP - but ignoring a Balor Lord.. I don't know^^
. PvE wise, infinite summons is definitely an I win button. As long as the summon can deal a blow or two and the enemy doesn't regenerate it, it's only a matter of time.

Don't get me wrong, if that's intended, I'm fine with that. Anyone can play a Warlock and become a Balor spammer

[IndifferentPerson]

While the summons are very strong and need some looking into, everytime you re-summon them, they're naked of buffs such as bull's, cat's and war cry. Just food for thought.

[aaa3]

You can understand the piety drain on warlocks as the willingness of those supplying them powers to do so if they see it is vasted in such huge ammount.

[DestroyerOTN]

Fifty cents here: As a fey pact 'lock, I find little reason (to those that'd like power with little involvement) for a -full- warlock to not go fiendish, grab their conjuration focus, and fling bottomless greater pit fiends at city gates en masse: they're the strongest summons currently IG (this -is- including dragon knight), bottomless, and buffed or no, anything's an issue if it repeats.

For PvE (mith's confirmed angle of building attention), this is -wonderful-, where a player may fling a quick escape down, draw away aggro and run for it when stuff looks bad, and is capable of creating a warrior for the party where one otherwise doesn't exist.

For PvP, anyone which claims this isn't overpowered should receive a laugh. Fiendlocks are an immediate "rock and hard place" situation, with Soriek capable of singlehandedly forcing the entire cordor guard to pay a sum exceeding 100 thousand just standing on a bridge with a hostage whom noone really cared about. Focusing looses it's place when you have a summon capable of doing upwards of 70 damage a hit, 3-4 times a round, replaceable at the tip of a hat...

This said, I support fully the prospect of initiating some limitations on these summons, though what one needs to ask is how this may be appropriately balanced with PvE... to this end, piety should work... albeit, the rates need to be high enough of drain to be significant.

Eventually, killing the summon should be a cripple.

EDIT: Should add, while I lend my support to this, no other class or subclass has any need whatsoever to summon-based piety drain. Focus to 'locks alone, I say

[Katze]

hmm, would we get unlimited summons to this?

[Preacher]

While the summons are very strong and need some looking into, everytime you re-summon them, they're naked of buffs such as bull's, cat's and war cry. Just food for thought.

as well as any wand buffs, potions or scrolls you used on it