Arelith

Cataclysm of Iron wrote:

Seven Sons of Sin wrote: I.e. Sasha Silverscales was a player. Nautilus Lane in Cordor is named after Nautilus.

Were these 5% rolls? I always thought it was just a dev-level decision because of how fundamentally huge those characters were in terms of shaping the server.

Mithreas was always very ambiguous. To my knowledge, Sasha Silverscales was a 5% roll. Daedin as a baelorn was not (correct me if I'm wrong Daedin). Nautilus Lane and Mesmer Way were also dev-level decisions.
The old Biblio- statutes in Wharftown were also not 5% rolls. It's very subjective. To my knowledge, there's nothing permanent on the server from a dev-level that honours or recognizes Vippin (someone correct me if I'm wrong), which seems like a travesty to me.

A clear policy, with more flexible and inclusive guidelines, I think could make some really cool space for players who know they can leave some minor, lasting impression when the time to end the story has come.

DarkDreamer wrote:

Cataclysm of Iron wrote:

DarkDreamer wrote: Also, RPR doesn't reinforce anything, this is LONG proven that stuff like that doesn't do anything except cause hurt feelings and the feeling of players shacking up with specific people to get special goodies.

I'm not trying to be facetious or to bait you here, I am genuinely willing have my mind changed. In what way has it been proven (i.e. not just an opinion)?

https://hbr.org/1993/09/why-incentive-plans-cannot-work

Here you go, a literal study into it.

It is difficult to overstate the extent to which most managers and the people who advise them believe in the redemptive power of rewards. Certainly, the vast majority of U.S. corporations use some sort of program intended to motivate employees by tying compensation to one index of performance or another. But more striking is the rarely examined belief that people will do a better job if they have been promised some sort of incentive. This assumption and the practices associated with it are pervasive, but a growing collection of evidence supports an opposing view. According to numerous studies in laboratories, workplaces, classrooms, and other settings, rewards typically undermine the very processes they are intended to enhance. The findings suggest that the failure of any given incentive program is due less to a glitch in that program than to the inadequacy of the psychological assumptions that ground all such plans.

The Arelith situation is made worse by there being no feedback at all, and players don't even know when or if they are being observed. What results is a broken system accomplishing the opposite of what it's intended to do.

Such things are researched thoroughly and there are about a dozen such studies that can be linked as to why mystery rewards in a system of total uncertainty do nothing but undermine their goals.

Arelith has grown so large, the population is spread across a massive amount of areas. My own personal request would be that whatever rewards are implemented, they're with the purpose of forcing groups together. Quests have had this effect and it's given rise to a more purposeful adventures - the pretext is shallow, but it gives the players freedom to determine the parameters around why they did accept the quest.

These simple, mechanically injected ideas bring players together. I am impressed that it was done in such a way that didn't remove player agency nor compromised the overall roleplay on the server.

I am not a fan of gated content, and am more in favor of implementations that inherently bring players together instead of isolation.

DarkDreamer wrote:

Cataclysm of Iron wrote:

DarkDreamer wrote: Also, RPR doesn't reinforce anything, this is LONG proven that stuff like that doesn't do anything except cause hurt feelings and the feeling of players shacking up with specific people to get special goodies.

I'm not trying to be facetious or to bait you here, I am genuinely willing have my mind changed. In what way has it been proven (i.e. not just an opinion)?

https://hbr.org/1993/09/why-incentive-plans-cannot-work

Here you go, a literal study into it.

That's super interesting and I agree, quite relevant to the RPR System. I wonder whether there would be a difference in a recreational context such as Arelith compared to a professional one, but in principle I agree this corroborates your point.

Thank you.

What i am lacking here, is a feature from czech ultima server.

They made systém based on DM evaluation (added xps per kill later too) and made part of it evaluation from players.

It consisted of marks from 5 to 1. Mark from each ten players made avarege mark equal to one of DM. It would be nice if players could reward people they had fun with by giving them a mark.

id mark everyone i hate with a 1

Cataclysm of Iron wrote:That's super interesting and I agree, quite relevant to the RPR System. I wonder whether there would be a difference in a recreational context such as Arelith compared to a professional one, but in principle I agree this corroborates your point.

I think the motivations that are associated with money are very different from the motivations from the pursuit of fun.

That said, every PW I've played on, I've done so with a slightly different approach after reviewing the rules and wishes the of the admins (and further adjusted based on players). So, in a way, it does not change my overall attitude of RP, but does shape my interaction with this specific one. I don't necessarily see an issue with that.

Again, on the other hand, those that have only (or mostly) played on Arelith, will certainly be shaped by the Arelith view of positive RP is more so than a PW hopper.

I don't think that article can fully be applied to recreational activities.

Cortex wrote:id mark everyone i hate with a 1

Well usually when got too many 1s (best mark) DM came to oversee that guy, same with one who got only 5s, Dm came to check if he does not deserve better. But the fact marks from players were divided into avarage number kept things in linie.

I'd just like to see the environment get changed by our RP. One of the most appealing things in Arelith is how characters can literally shape the server and it just seems the standard of what it takes to accomplish these things big and small seem so massive these days. Like if you want to do an RP quest to create a building in the environment the Arelith team should be supportive of that goal.

flower wrote:They made systém based on DM evaluation (added xps per kill later too) and made part of it evaluation from players.

It consisted of marks from 5 to 1. Mark from each ten players made avarege mark equal to one of DM. It would be nice if players could reward people they had fun with by giving them a mark.

You can already "vote" for players by sending PMs to DMs letting them know who's doing a good job.

We should just make rpr values public. That way you can just look at someone to see if they're worth rping with.

Of course implementing such a system would break the entire server entwine. Which makes you wonder, if the rewards for good behavior have to be hidden, is it really the right system that were using?

RP begins at 30. Both level and rpr.

Cerk Evermoore wrote:I'd just like to see the environment get changed by our RP. One of the most appealing things in Arelith is how characters can literally shape the server and it just seems the standard of what it takes to accomplish these things big and small seem so massive these days. Like if you want to do an RP quest to create a building in the environment the Arelith team should be supportive of that goal.

The team has always been supportive of implementing player-driven change into the module, see bramble watch for example. Or that stupid bridge gate-separate-nation thing between Cordor and the Arcane Tower. These things take a lot of time and effort to get put in place, and rightly so. Otherwise the server would just end up with hundreds of empty campsites, buildings and forts as the flavor of the month moved elsewhere.

BegoneThoth wrote:We should just make rpr values public. That way you can just look at someone to see if they're worth rping with.

Of course implementing such a system would break the entire server entwine. Which makes you wonder, if the rewards for good behavior have to be hidden, is it really the right system that were using?

RP begins at 30. Both level and rpr.

i'm convinced begonethoth is an elaborate trolling bot synthesised by the Philippines government's elite coding team to wrack worldwide havoc

it's more probable than someone actually having this as an unironic opinion at least

I'm not trolling, I'm illustrating how absurd the rpr system is.

Doing what I said in my last post would break the server, but it also shows just how backwards the system is. We actually can't show the general population who the DM's have decided are the model players, who they think the general population should look to in order to learn what good RP is.

Instead it has to be hidden, and that's nothing but the hallmarks of the rotting framework that is the current rpr system. Some get elevated via a secret vote to unknown criteria and everyone else is just left to wonder "why" or "why not me?"

BegoneThoth wrote:
Instead it has to be hidden, and that's nothing but the hallmarks of the rotting framework that is the current rpr system. Some get elevated via a secret vote to unknown criteria and everyone else is just left to wonder "why" or "why not me?"

The Criteria is -not- unknown.

BegoneThoth wrote:[...]everyone else is just left to wonder "why" or "why not me?"

You can ask a DM to watch you play for a while and give you tips on what they think could use improvement. It might take a little scheduling, but the resource is there.

As some others have mentioned, I feel like the premise of the thread's original point, presumed that players affecting the world is a norm, but in reality, meaningful DM involvement with player instigated goals or events, seems quite abnormal.

It would be great if those that put the extra effort into stimulating Roleplay, actually had DM's offering the tools at their disposal, to push for some fun and creative uses, of the DM's ability to control NPC's, spawn NPC's, and otherwise temporarily edit the module.

I think if you're wondering "why not me", that question might be the problem. I have played on this server for over 10 years. 75% of the time I was a 10 RPR, 20% a 20 RPR and 5% a 30 RPR. I by no means deserve a 30 RPR, especially now when I'm practically a casual player.

For YEARS I strived to achieve a 30 RPR specifically so I could flaunt my roleplay prowess as a Tiefling...or some other nonsense like that. "Look at me, I'm a fairy!" I believed I was better and I believed I deserved better, and damn it the system is broken because my perception did not meet reality.

Then I grew up, stopped giving a F* and decided to play for fun. Got lucky by being pulled into some excellent drow RP & the players around me inspired me to give back. I spent time & effort not for that illustrious 30 RPR, but because I wanted to contribute to the fun.

People noticed I guess. It felt good to be rewarded, but I still don't think I'm even worthy of it. Really shed those entitlements, and cliques and presuppositions if you truly want a higher RPR.

Then again, this is a 15+ y/o game and I don't need someone on here to validate my RP.

It would be great if those that put the extra effort into stimulating Roleplay, actually had DM's offering the tools at their disposal, to push for some fun and creative uses, of the DM's ability to control NPC's, spawn NPC's, and otherwise temporarily edit the module.

Well, they do! Anyone does!

Just hit us up with your ideas, and we'll give you hand!

No seriously. Got a cool idea? Run it past us. I can't /promise/ anything (again it's dependent on time/idea/inspiration but chances are good we'll try and help out, no matter what your RPR is!

Ork wrote:I think if you're wondering "why not me", that question might be the problem. I have played on this server for over 10 years. 75% of the time I was a 10 RPR, 20% a 20 RPR and 5% a 30 RPR. I by no means deserve a 30 RPR, especially now when I'm practically a casual player.

For YEARS I strived to achieve a 30 RPR specifically so I could flaunt my roleplay prowess as a Tiefling...or some other nonsense like that. "Look at me, I'm a fairy!" I believed I was better and I believed I deserved better, and damn it the system is broken because my perception did not meet reality.

Then I grew up, stopped giving a F* and decided to play for fun. Got lucky by being pulled into some excellent drow RP & the players around me inspired me to give back. I spent time & effort not for that illustrious 30 RPR, but because I wanted to contribute to the fun.

People noticed I guess. It felt good to be rewarded, but I still don't think I'm even worthy of it. Really shed those entitlements, and cliques and presuppositions if you truly want a higher RPR.

Then again, this is a 15+ y/o game and I don't need someone on here to validate my RP.

I don't wonder either, and I don't feel that I personally need validation, but this is the kind of system that has been created.

It is, again, another example of how the system does the opposite of what it is intended to do. In a good reward system, players wouldn't be come apathetic after striving for a reward that may never come.

DM Titania wrote:

BegoneThoth wrote:
Instead it has to be hidden, and that's nothing but the hallmarks of the rotting framework that is the current rpr system. Some get elevated via a secret vote to unknown criteria and everyone else is just left to wonder "why" or "why not me?"

The Criteria is -not- unknown.

Because parts of the system are in fact unknown and not public, the entire system is therefore an unknown. Are players notified when they are up for a review for a higher RPR? Are they notified when they are being observed? Are they notified who and who didn't vote for them and why or why not? Is there a chance for rebuttal if a DM has it wrong?

It is unknown, a black box system by design.

BegoneThoth wrote: Because parts of the system are in fact unknown and not public, the entire system is therefore an unknown. Are players notified when they are up for a review for a higher RPR? Are they notified when they are being observed? Are they notified who and who didn't vote for them and why or why not? Is there a chance for rebuttal if a DM has it wrong?

It is unknown, a black box system by design.

In my experience (as a player, not a DM, disclaimer: may have changed over time/have been instance rather than policy);

Yes, No, No, Yes.

Cant rebuttal a vote you dont know happened.

DarkDreamer wrote:Cant rebuttal a vote you dont know happened.

I can attest to the process of having a server admin consider and make a judgement in response to a DM's decision regarding a change in RPR.

As in, DM takes RPR-based decision, player approaches admin, at request player provides details to admin of the decision and its context as they see it(, admin presumably does the same for anyone else involved and the DM themself), admin makes a decision on whether DM acted appropriately or not.

It's obviously not as simple as calling for a recount on a vote for your 30 because you didn't get bumped up and wanted to, but my point was that the DM decisions (as I understand it) aren't irrevocable, absolute, and beyond appeal.

Why would you need notification that you're under review or a vote is happening, etc? You should be playing the same as always, being watched or not.