Accountability

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

seems well blown up to me
a good simmer goin on here
might wanna caramelize some onions

[Hin_Justice]

Reading this thread, my eyes have glossed over trying to keep track of various opinions and the root of it. So I will try to paraphrase and try to regroup here.

One camp believes that DMs aren't doing enough. Another camp believes DMs are corrupt because of what some players believe have been bad judgments. DMs have said that if any in their numbers are found not following their rules, is cut from the DM Team. One camp cries foul because they believe friends were unjustly punished by new PvP rules.


Conclusion:
We have a lot of "He said, she said," finger-pointing going on and little-to-nothing laser-focused for the topic of: Accountability. DMs have said they are held accountable and I know it is sometimes hard to trust in a process that is not transparent to everyone.

Point-of-fact, if you watch any major sports games, sometimes a ref makes a bad call they can't take back. SOMETIMES. I cannot speak for the DMs, but they have to use their best judgment. And as they have said - players with bans were banned because they knew they did wrong. We will never know what happened in those cases and it's none of our business - no rudeness intended.

And at the server meeting, the DMs repeatedly said to come to them for rule clarification.

I know several players here want the laundry aired out, but that is not pragmatic, at all. You pull a molten-hot blade from a furnace and set it in oil before it's been tempered, it will shatter on the first critical hit during battle... Players as well, make bad mistakes out of having one bad day. Airing their laundry for the players to see, would shatter them. More so when most here have been punished once or twice - including me, and now exemplify good sportsmanship.

We ALL make mistakes. Owning up to them and striving to be a better person is the only recourse after a 2-3 week server ban or so forth. Not public shaming just so the masses can see your sins and be judged for it. Or so the masses can love or hate a DM for it. Watch The Orvill Season One episode: Majority Rule. You will understand in a far better way why, "Mob Mentality," is a terrible thing.

In the end, Accountability starts with US as players. Following the rules and asking for clarification, if you do not understand them. Seeing something terrible go down, and doing something (reporting) about it. Players need to stop holding on to old gripes and move forward, focus on the rules.

Got nothing more to say on this topic, really. Sorry if I touched a nerve with some, but I tire of people putting the blame mostly on DMs. Accountability is for ALL. So we need to look at our own behavior too.

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

Share love, not private communication.

Love, DM Eyeball

[Flip Flappers]

Man this thread is full of some insane entitlement. I'm sure y'all can go make your own or find another server if there's truly 50 to 80 of you. Like that's probably more than even the population of Ravenloft during active playtime? So hell guys, go make something cool for you if you honestly think there's a problem. Like a fair number of people here outside of your echo chamber have told you however, the only ones seeing these delusions are you.

[DM Chiliad]

Have there been things that could've been handled better?

Maybe in future DM team when there is a problem with war-factions can make a discord chat for all sides members to join for mediation?
So others aside from faction leaders and bigshots know what is going on also. And also so that you can easily read and talk to members of opposing faction.

I like this idea. I'm a very staunch proponent of mediation and taking the time to talk things out among each other. This could be an idea going forward that I'll put a pin in to bring up later.

We as a team are pretty hesitant to involve OOC communications to this degree though, as we don't want anyone to feel like they must be OOC/have an OOC presence to get involved in the happenings of the server. We want this to be an experience you can dive right into without needing to organize so much on an OOC level.

In the situation presently I'm not sure if a mediation will help when moods are at their current level. It's hard to listen to objective reason when you're upset.


RE: Faint,
I know you're upset, and I'd be willing to agree things are not always at their best. The server always has something going on that's on fire and no one is saying that isn't the case. We do however want to do our best to foster and encourage as positive an environment as we can and not let our community become a cesspit of toxicity, and unkindness.

You can always bring up your opinion and your side of things. What you cannot do is attack people, base your arguments on speculation and wild assumptions, and instigate a fight (not to be confused with a debate that is a difference of opinion done from a calm and level headed place) to express your anger and frustration. And more over, you really, really, cannot take a slight (perceived or legitimate) as an excuse to go ahead and break the rules in turn.

[Sockss]

Share love, not private communication.

Love, DM Eyeball

LOL

That about sums it up.

This has been a spicy evening, lovely.

[Nobs]

No one should be afraid of posting here. If they are, I’d wager that they know they’ve been involved in their share of wrong doings otherwise, they are just creating hysteria.

Also, it’s very reasonable to ask that someone who does not actively play to not try and “help”.

Alright , then i would like to ask why the player of the drow Calandis was banned and perhaps see some screen shots from the DM side of it all.
I seen his screen shots on his discord and could not help but feel bad for the guy.

[Zavandar]

when the frostblades are conducting OOC investigations that are as shallow as the ones they did IC

when the frostblades are churning out "polls" about trusting the staff but only handing out those "polls" to offended parties

when we have the aforementioned screenshot

when all this happens days after Mach comes back in a desperate attempt to fix his faction..

mach, i had a long conversation with you about this. you came to me, seemingly in earnest, with a desire to fix the server. this turn of events is as disappointing as it was predictable.

i have my occasional gripes with the DM team, but the heavier hand lately has been healthy for the server. this is blatant bias in defense of friends (zed as an example, he's in the frostblade discord), and cacophonous hooting because of extremely biased evidence (as penwize demonstrated).

the problem parties are the ones complaining, because they were dishonest from the start.

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

Share love, not private conversations.

Love, DM Eyeball

[Faint]

RE: Faint,
I know you're upset, and I'd be willing to agree things are not always at their best. The server always has something going on that's on fire and no one is saying that isn't the case. We do however want to do our best to foster and encourage as positive an environment as we can and not let our community become a cesspit of toxicity, and unkindness.

You can always bring up your opinion and your side of things. What you cannot do is attack people, base your arguments on speculation and wild assumptions, and instigate a fight (not to be confused with a debate that is a difference of opinion done from a calm and level headed place) to express your anger and frustration. And more over, you really, really, cannot take a slight (perceived or legitimate) as an excuse to go ahead and break the rules in turn.

Thank you for not deleting my post. I'm surprised, and I'll be more surprised if another staff member doesn't do it instead.

But, yes. I'm irritated. We are often told that feedback is welcome, if not even encouraged. But players on this server have and continue to be banned for providing honest, civil criticism of the system at current.

I'm an example of one of those players. Three incidents of PvP in the period of a month. One in self defense, one to assist an ally in ongoing combat, one in a 40+ person war that many people engaged in. Wasn't a participant in the first battle, and thus not someone who breached 24 hr. Long story short, no rule breaches. Yet, I was permabanned without warning. Without discussion. Without previous consultation of my 'behavior', requests for improvement, or any opportunity to improve. And I was banned for three things:

1. Ideological dissent.
2. Asking for clarification of the rules.
3. Requesting that the rule structure be re-evaluated, clarified, and made more transparent.

A permanent ban was immensely unnecessary, and a huge escalation that hardly was required. A critical step was skipped in my case, and that was: Consult the player about their 'behavior' and ask for improvement. Such was an opportunity I was never provided. It doesn't take 6 months for a player to understand when they're told: "No. Stop critiquing the system, or you're getting banned." I could've ceased overnight. I simply wasn't asked to. Never consulted, never warned, never told no.

Irongron was very respectful in my ban message. However, he places far too much trust in his staff, to the degree that he believed it when a player, banned for dissenting opinion, was accused of treating the server like a PvP server instead. I had a pretty, unrelated cover-up label slapped upon my ban description that had scarce little to do with the real reason for it. I -admire- the players here who have the courage to speak up for what they believe, and detail the problems they see on this server. But I dread the thought of what's going to happen for them as a result. Because, I literally got permabanned for doing precisely the same thing.

To those of you who will undoubtedly claim my post here was only in lieu of what happened to me: It isn't. I've been trying to voice this problem to the staff for months on end before I was ever sent away. My attempt to do so is exactly -why- I was sent away.

[Sockss]

Share love, not private conversations.

Love, DM Eyeball

wtf dude, marry me.

[BegoneThoth]

I'm almost immediately skeptical of anyone claiming they were perma'd for nothing given some of the actions of total moral degeneracy that result in a talking-to and nothing more.

There's more to these stories I'm sure but if you arn't the person who got banned please don't ask the DM's to make things about other people's bannings public.

[Nobs]

I'm almost immediately skeptical of anyone claiming they were perma'd for nothing given some of the actions of total moral degeneracy that result in a talking-to and nothing more.

There's more to these stories I'm sure but if you arn't the person who got banned please don't ask the DM's to make things about other people's bannings public.

Mhm im skeptical aswel thats why im asking the dm team for their side of the ban of Calandis.

[Zavandar]

he's being disingenuous

he did a lot more than that and he knows it. far from his first offense too

[Nitro]

Mhm im skeptical aswel thats why im asking the dm team for their side of the ban of Calandis.

Unless you're Calandis, why do you need to know though? To show solidarity? To prove that they've given out a one-sided flawed account?

[Scurvy Cur]

Given the absolute herculean effort it takes to get more than a stern finger-shake from the DM team, I am for once in full concurrence with BegoneThoth.

[Faint]

he's being disingenuous

he did a lot more than that and he knows it. far from his first offense too

Between my return to the server on 3/19/22 and now? No. What I wrote is all that occurred. I'd appreciate if you don't comment on something you know very little about.

I wrote a large petition to Irongron regarding DM conduct, and the rule structure of the server. Nearly 30 people signed it, and from the day I wrote that document I was viewed as a figurehead for anti-DM sentiment.

My continual critique of the obscurity of the server rules, and proven inability of the staff to remain consistent in their interpretations of them is what led to my banning. Discussions with staff members over Discord. It can be called whatever someone wishes to call it, but that is at the core of what caused my removal.

[Nobs]

Yes so far it is one sided thats why im asking for the other side of it , and i wil be the first to say gogo DM team and cheer them on if they wil be willing to give their side.

Cous you maybe right the player may changes stuff i dont know , but i would like to as it would put my mind at ease.

[Wrips]

when the frostblades are conducting OOC investigations that are as shallow as the ones they did IC

when the frostblades are churning out "polls" about trusting the staff but only handing out those "polls" to offended parties

when we have the aforementioned screenshot

when all this happens days after Mach comes back in a desperate attempt to fix his faction..

mach, i had a long conversation with you about this. you came to me, seemingly in earnest, with a desire to fix the server. this turn of events is as disappointing as it was predictable.

i have my occasional gripes with the DM team, but the heavier hand lately has been healthy for the server. this is blatant bias in defense of friends (zed as an example, he's in the frostblade discord), and cacophonous hooting because of extremely biased evidence (as penwize demonstrated).

the problem parties are the ones complaining, because they were dishonest from the start.

Oh, apparently, Mach and some other do some shit (two players I never talked with before, and never had interest to) and suddenly you accuse all the people that are part of the Frostblades to be all his accomplices in some grand scheme to blow up the server?

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

your return to the server
where'd u go
were u
banned

[Kreydis]

This thread is complaining from more groups then the frostblades. But it seems that there's proof it's derived from their conflict for the most part. But these are feelings I've had for a year personally. So Zarvandar, you can make it about you as much as you want. It's not, I couldn't care less about you or Mach's dumbass plans in the screens above.

Arelith is a huge server, and will likely never die off despite any plans to 'ruin' it. Hence why it's dumb as shit. It's why it kept going strong, averaging 100 ish players even long before beamdog grabbed it during the times of no EE.

Even if you purge every single player here you can point finger at for colluding to Mach, I assure you, there is a dedicated part of the playerbase who feels the same way. I'm one of those unfortunate souls, which is why I continue to send my 'evidence' to what few DM's I pretend I can trust, so they can see if I'm full of shit, or actually right.

Which again leads to, they can't tell me anything, so I have to trust them in order to feel reassured that nothing's wrong. But as I stated in the last thread long before the banning began. People are sacred of each other as players leading to more insular RP, and endless mass reporting incidents. People don't trust the DM team, which leads to this unholy bickering and finger pointing.

But likely we'll see people getting banned until they give up, instead of taking as much as reasonably is possible and actually addressing the Balor in the room.

[DM Chiliad]

Hi everyone.

It's very hard to address legitimate concerns and questions when you're all flaming each other and going full blast. Please tone it back so I can spend my time typing up responses and not taking down your personal attacks at one another.

[Faint]

your return to the server
where'd u go
were u
banned

Nope. I took a multi-month break for college.

[Nobs]

Hi everyone.

It's very hard to address legitimate concerns and questions when you're all flaming each other and going full blast. Please tone it back so I can spend my time typing up responses and not taking down your personal attacks at one another.

Im not here to flame im here asking the DM team side on the ban of the player of the drow Calandis as i said in a post or two before.

[Flip Flappers]

Hey so like I said earlier if you guys have legitimate beef and legitimately have 50 - 80 players as has been claimed why don't you go and make your own server with it's own code base a a team of DMs I'm sure will be as completely impartial as you've all shown yourselves to be here. Or I guess even go to some other server since there's so many options for you to choose from.