Arelith

So you realize SD gets more ac than a hips-dip rogue right

because of shadow evade

Its numbers are better than the build you're saying it's worse than

Zavandar wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:51 pm So you realize SD gets more ac than a hips-dip rogue right

because of shadow evade

Its numbers are better than the build you're saying it's worse than

Meh or not as much meh AC is not much difference...what actualy makes rogue way better in PVP are granades..

CptJonas wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:46 pm Enemy having TS, listen or spot enough to get you, or that they will simply drop implosion/banshe on your last location...

Risk is that you cant say if Hips works..so if they somehow counter it you just slowed yourself in fight...which is deadly...

Since you seem to not have read the various reasons for why this doesn't work out well for the non-SD already posted in this thread I'll break it down for you:

1: The enemy won't have TS up already. It lasts one round, and if you see them pull out a scroll to cast it after you HIPS it doesn't matter, you've had your 6 second window to either re-engage for free damage on a flatfooted target or scoot your butt behind cover to break the TS.

2: There's nothing inherently more dangerous about this than if they dropped it on you before you HIPS'ed.

3: To have enough spot/listen to get you, they have to have enough to beat your initial roll when you hit HIPS, which means 20 RANKS MORE THAN YOU HAVE otherwise it's down to a diceroll that 99% of the time will be in the HIPS'ers favour since they have a lot easier of a time getting and maintaining high sneak stats than their opponent does sensory stats.

4: If you find yourself slowed down, you can cancel HIPS just as instantly as you enter it.

5: Most of this is a moot point anyway, as the best way to use HIPS is to flatfoot someone so you can get more damage while staying in close quarters. It also makes you all but invulnerable as you can at any point just dip out of the fight and vanish, or apply FoM, Mind Blank, Acid sheat or any number of consumable that you now can't be interrupted as you use them.

CptJonas wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:55 pm Meh or not as much meh AC is not much difference...what actualy makes rogue way better in PVP are granades..

I see the goalposts are getting moved now.

4 ac is a 20% reduction in being hit

That's not insignificant

I know I am repeating myself..but...
This is feedback section...
If you see something realy strong which OP on some builds...
Dont post topics and coments like "This is strong and OP bcs of X, nerft it maybe like this..."

Anyone can see those strong/broken combinations...

What actualy is hard...what actualy need your constructive feedback, is how to change that so those things cant be abused by some OP builds...but same time you totaly dont crush those who dont build optimaly or simply have different build combo which is good but not broken...

Thats actualy that hard part About ballancing game with so many options as is NWN...

CptJonas wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:07 pm I know I am repeating myself..but...
This is feedback section...
If you see something realy strong which OP on some builds...
Dont post topics and coments like "This is strong and OP bcs of X, nerft it maybe like this..."

Anyone can see those strong/broken combinations...

What actualy is hard...what actualy need your constructive feedback, is how to change that so those things cant be abused by some OP builds...but same time you totaly dont crush those who dont build optimaly or simply have different build combo which is good but not broken...

Thats actualy that hard part About ballancing game with so many options as is NWN...

Yes, and have you recently gone to read OP's suggestion? This is a constructive feedback about increasing the cooldown on HIPS, you're behaving like that's the same as taking it away entirely.

Zavandar wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:05 pm 4 ac is a 20% reduction in being hit

That's not insignificant

Thats not how it works...
How would that 4 AC help ya agains my 60AB cleric? % in case of AC VS AB works differently based on what difference in those 2 things...you cant say it gives you flat 20%

Clerics dont get 60 ab

Also this build can get 68 ac. That 4 ac will definitely help. They will hit you more if you only have 64.

20% more

smh

Nitro wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:09 pm

CptJonas wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:07 pm I know I am repeating myself..but...
This is feedback section...
If you see something realy strong which OP on some builds...
Dont post topics and coments like "This is strong and OP bcs of X, nerft it maybe like this..."

Anyone can see those strong/broken combinations...

What actualy is hard...what actualy need your constructive feedback, is how to change that so those things cant be abused by some OP builds...but same time you totaly dont crush those who dont build optimaly or simply have different build combo which is good but not broken...

Thats actualy that hard part About ballancing game with so many options as is NWN...

Yes, and have you recently gone to read OP's suggestion? This is a constructive feedback about increasing the cooldown on HIPS, you're behaving like that's the same as taking it away entirely.

Read that post that you just quoted once again...

As was said many times...OPs sugestion would nerf/afect everyone...

But this wasnt exactly targeted on OP...more on like 70% of all replyes here...
You have 1 person who created topic which had sugestion that could/could not be good...

And 70% of reply is like *nods* its broken pls nerf...and only few posts actualy have normal workable opinions/solutions...

Zavandar wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:12 pm Clerics dont get 60 ab

Also this build can get 68 ac. That 4 ac will definitely help. They will hit you more if you only have 64.

20% more

smh

Well yeah...they can
And you have 68 only with exp..how will you fight now when you have AB aroun 34? You will try nat 20 him while he will pound you with like 3 out of 5 atacks?

No, they cant

Bclerics cap around 55 ab, and this is after they fully buff. I know you think 4 is about the same as 0, but it's not. I could whip up a spreadsheet to show you this, but I am at work

Like are you trolling dude? The ellipses are selling it

Zavandar wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:35 pm No, they cant

Bclerics cap around 55 ab, and this is after they fully buff. I know you think 4 is about the same as 0, but it's not. I could whip up a spreadsheet to show you this, but I am at work

Like are you trolling dude? The ellipses are selling it

Im gonna go ahead and say Ive got no skin in the HiPs game, but Battle clerics can top up to 65 AB. ive seen 2 whove done it.

Shrouded Wanderer wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:44 pm Im gonna go ahead and say Ive got no skin in the HiPs game, but Battle clerics can top up to 65 AB. ive seen 2 whove done it.

I'm assuming this is with Truestrike? If not, I'm rather curious as to how you're achieving this.

Zavandar wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:35 pm No, they cant

Bclerics cap around 55 ab, and this is after they fully buff. I know you think 4 is about the same as 0, but it's not. I could whip up a spreadsheet to show you this, but I am at work

Like are you trolling dude? The ellipses are selling it

They can...but fine...I dont need to prove it..

If your atacker have AB then you have AC then difference between if he have more by 4 or 8 will make any difference maybe by 3 atack in row...so...not much advantage...it will help...but not as much...its definetly not on par with power boost ofgranades of rogue...

Dont get that last part...

I never did, and no truestrike needed.

I couldnt tell you the build, but ive seen the numbers.

Yall realize there is a +20 bonus ab cap and the sheet doesn't account for that right

You would need to be a bcleric with 45 base ab to reach that, and that is BEFORE the weapon ab/enh bonus

Nitro wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:48 pm

Shrouded Wanderer wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:44 pm Im gonna go ahead and say Ive got no skin in the HiPs game, but Battle clerics can top up to 65 AB. ive seen 2 whove done it.

I'm assuming this is with Truestrike? If not, I'm rather curious as to how you're achieving this.

Dunno if we mean samé thing...but ist with crossbow/bow...wis mod for AB...and all those cleric buffs...and ofc you go war domain for that another AB boost

Can't argue with those numbers, tbh. Count me as persuaded.

Edit: And those of you who have switched from defending SD by arguing "the numbers are bad" to instead say "the numbers don't actually matter" really need to learn how to evolve your opinions. This thread is done. The point is made. It's time to let it die.

Anyways...lets stop This isnt buildcraft part of fórum

We are derailing this thread...we are off topic

Magistrasa said it best. This is hardly a discussion anymore and a warning has already been given. Locked.