Accountability

[BegoneThoth]

Please stop with the personal attacks guys or the topic is going to get locked and for better or worse all discussion will stop at that point.

[Faint]

Hey so like I said earlier if you guys have legitimate beef and legitimately have 50 - 80 players as has been claimed why don't you go and make your own server with it's own code base a a team of DMs I'm sure will be as completely impartial as you've all shown yourselves to be here. Or I guess even go to some other server since there's so many options for you to choose from.

It's ironic that you say that, because a new server is being created precisely because of this situation.

[Huschpfusch]

Have there been things that could've been handled better?

Maybe in future DM team when there is a problem with war-factions can make a discord chat for all sides members to join for mediation?
So others aside from faction leaders and bigshots know what is going on also. And also so that you can easily read and talk to members of opposing faction.

I like this idea. I'm a very staunch proponent of mediation and taking the time to talk things out among each other. This could be an idea going forward that I'll put a pin in to bring up later.

We as a team are pretty hesitant to involve OOC communications to this degree though, as we don't want anyone to feel like they must be OOC/have an OOC presence to get involved in the happenings of the server. We want this to be an experience you can dive right into without needing to organize so much on an OOC level.

In the situation presently I'm not sure if a mediation will help when moods are at their current level. It's hard to listen to objective reason when you're upset.

Diving right into rp without any 3rd party content is good. I did that when starting on Arelith but installed discord eventually.
When things turn ugly (or even before they turn ugly) DM guided OOC communication channel of some sort is better than the current word-of-the-mouth and screenshot-circulating that is sure to happen anyhow.
I've heard say DMs can and have made in game rooms to talk to ppl directyl. But that is not as good an option as a chat-program or private forum thing because of timezones and protocol.
Also I think when ppl are confronted with the other sides perspective directly that would cool down things pretty fast. At least it will cool down the level-headed ppl of both sides even though others might continue rampaging verbally.
Also I hope you staff when considering chatchannel for medation purpose think of this:
In tabletop players can all hear what another one is saying. They can see other persons face and guess their feeling. There is always the level of OOC communication present.
In online game this is not so. We of one faction have no clue what other side players are thinking/feeling. I think personally that the level of anonymity that comes with online playing is to blame for a lot of harshness. So I think OOC communication channel for parties involved is actually brinign more tabletop feeling to online game rather than putting extra thing to it.

[Nitro]

Hey so like I said earlier if you guys have legitimate beef and legitimately have 50 - 80 players as has been claimed why don't you go and make your own server with it's own code base a a team of DMs I'm sure will be as completely impartial as you've all shown yourselves to be here. Or I guess even go to some other server since there's so many options for you to choose from.

It's ironic that you say that, because a new server is being created precisely because of this situation.

Well good luck with that. I'm sure you'll have a very successfull launch with the 50-80 players you will be taking with you to it.

[Irongron]

Just wanted to say how encouraging it is to see more than 90 people on the forums right now.

Whatever you guys are doing here it sure is working!

[Kreydis]

Hey so like I said earlier if you guys have legitimate beef and legitimately have 50 - 80 players as has been claimed why don't you go and make your own server with it's own code base a a team of DMs I'm sure will be as completely impartial as you've all shown yourselves to be here. Or I guess even go to some other server since there's so many options for you to choose from.

Because I'm sure most people here aren't like Mach and out to ExPoSe ThE dM tEaM fOr CoRrUpTiOn. And actually care about the server and we've been slapping back these posts time and time again pretending like nothing is wrong.

I'm sure if this keeps up however, everyone's going to start dumping dossiers on each other, again, leading to my point about how much everyone seems to hate each other OOCly for what should be IC exclusive actions. But at the same time, you should be mindful of how your IC comes off, it's why I try to send a tell to people involved in 'tense' RP in my case, to try and let them know, I'm not out to get them.

I've found that it's the most valuable tool in the world, to speak to each other after potentially perceived problems, but meh. I'm sure I'm just going to quit the server again at this rate. It tends to happen ever 3-6 months. I come back, see the same problems. Try to address them, get deflected, quit, come back, enjoy myself for a time, until I somehow find it again.

Now I could look at myself and say, maybe I'm the one who needs to change, and there's probably some truth to that. But I think everyone should be saying the same thing at all times.

[BegoneThoth]

Just wanted to say how encouraging it is to see more than 90 people on the forums right now.

Whatever you guys are doing here it sure is working!

I would recommend you read the topic, it's not trending for any good reason.

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

IN ALL FAIRNESS:

This thread has devolved and has been apparent from the start as a full-on bait against the DM team and the players that associate with the DM team in a very negative light. There is no unfairness - in fact, this is the most fair the DM team has ever been in all of my time on Arelith. You don't know what true unfairness is, you live privileged lives behind a computer screen where you can say whatever, and do whatever you want.

Bringing your battles onto the forums, to other players, and in general, to people who don't care to hear/read it, is the worst thing you could do. You're a negative aspect to the server and you need to be removed, and everyone who genuinely doesn't want to hear your gripes agrees with that. The severity of this situation has escalated into something atrocious that I haven't seen since the leaks a while ago, exposing the entire team at the time. It's pointless, it will pass, and you are wasting your breath and ruining your opportunities at future redemption.

Choose to do what you want to do, and you'll receive the consequences of those choices through and through despite how badly you complain about it or how many people you get to voice a falsified opinion on an internet chatroom with internet people who are all ultimately, internet-fake.

Get some fresh air is my advice.

[Kreydis]

Just wanted to say how encouraging it is to see more than 90 people on the forums right now.

Whatever you guys are doing here it sure is working!

Can I ask what the max has been? I really love looking at Arelith stats.

[Sockss]

My continual critique of the obscurity of the server rules, and proven inability of the staff to remain consistent in their interpretations of them is what led to my banning. Discussions with staff members over Discord. It can be called whatever someone wishes to call it, but that is at the core of what caused my removal.

The rules aren't obscure.

I imagine the vast majority of the server population never has to get a talking to, or any other punishment from DM's, which would prove that.

I mean, maybe you could argue that they are obscure but that the majority of people, who are playing fairly and for fun, and not being awful are not breaking these rules. Maybe.

IMO they are neither obscure and they are in no way limiting to enjoyment of the server as a whole.

What I fail to understand is how, despite absolutely no information regarding any decisions on cases that aren't your own (at least no information that hasn't been passed through an extremely biased lens) you can say that the staff are not consistent or that staff don't know the rules (because they're too obscure).

Maybe you were banned, and I'm sure the majority of the server would agree outside of your discord, because you deserved to be banned. Has that ever occurred to you?

[Flip Flappers]

Hey so like I said earlier if you guys have legitimate beef and legitimately have 50 - 80 players as has been claimed why don't you go and make your own server with it's own code base a a team of DMs I'm sure will be as completely impartial as you've all shown yourselves to be here. Or I guess even go to some other server since there's so many options for you to choose from.

It's ironic that you say that, because a new server is being created precisely because of this situation.

I legitimately wish you good luck.

[Faint]

My continual critique of the obscurity of the server rules, and proven inability of the staff to remain consistent in their interpretations of them is what led to my banning. Discussions with staff members over Discord. It can be called whatever someone wishes to call it, but that is at the core of what caused my removal.

The rules aren't obscure.

I imagine the vast majority of the server population never has to get a talking to, or any other punishment from DM's, which would prove that.

I mean, maybe you could argue that they are obscure but that the majority of people, who are playing fairly and for fun, and not being awful are not breaking these rules. Maybe.

IMO they are neither obscure and they are in no way limiting to enjoyment of the server as a whole.

What I fail to understand is how, despite absolutely no information regarding any decisions on cases that aren't your own (at least no information that hasn't been passed through an extremely biased lens) you can say that the staff are not consistent or that staff don't know the rules (because they're too obscure).

Maybe you were banned, and I'm sure the majority of the server would agree outside of your discord, because you deserved to be banned. Has that ever occurred to you?

Yeah, no. The rules are very obscure. "Be nice" couldn't be more vague, subject to interpretation, or opinion. And many a ruling aside from that is oft contradicted via various, conflicting interpretations from the staff. Want proof? Here's an entire .zip folder of examples. And a screenshot to boot. Enjoy:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/2lhssjxv ... s.zip/file

[Kreydis]

My continual critique of the obscurity of the server rules, and proven inability of the staff to remain consistent in their interpretations of them is what led to my banning. Discussions with staff members over Discord. It can be called whatever someone wishes to call it, but that is at the core of what caused my removal.

The rules aren't obscure.

I imagine the vast majority of the server population never has to get a talking to, or any other punishment from DM's, which would prove that.

I mean, maybe you could argue that they are obscure but that the majority of people, who are playing fairly and for fun, and not being awful are not breaking these rules. Maybe.

IMO they are neither obscure and they are in no way limiting to enjoyment of the server as a whole.

What I fail to understand is how, despite absolutely no information regarding any decisions on cases that aren't your own (at least no information that hasn't been passed through an extremely biased lens) you can say that the staff are not consistent or that staff don't know the rules (because they're too obscure).

Maybe you were banned, and I'm sure the majority of the server would agree outside of your discord, because you deserved to be banned. Has that ever occurred to you?

Yeah, no. The rules are very obscure. "Be nice" couldn't be more vague, subject to interpretation, or opinion. And many a ruling aside from that is oft contradicted via various, conflicting interpretations from the staff. Want proof? Here's an entire .zip folder of examples. And a screenshot to boot. Enjoy:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/2lhssjxv ... s.zip/file

And it begins. Alright, I give up. I hope you all stub your toes on something hard for the rest of your lives. Every last one of you.

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

Want more proof? Enjoy.

I fixed it though.

[Nitro]

Yeah remember that whole debacle we had about doctored, edited and cut screenshots before? Oh boy here we go again.

[Zavandar]

even more cherry-picking a la penwize

people who sit there and refuse to post are not exempt from pvp because they are intentionally refusing to interact.

you think you're being transparent, and you are, but not how you think you are

[Faint]

Yeah remember that whole debacle we had about doctored, edited and cut screenshots before? Oh boy here we go again.

Here's the full logs of that conversation, beginning to end:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/6uno4oa0 ... s.zip/file

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

that's a virus



NO ONE TOUCH IT

[Flip Flappers]

My continual critique of the obscurity of the server rules, and proven inability of the staff to remain consistent in their interpretations of them is what led to my banning. Discussions with staff members over Discord. It can be called whatever someone wishes to call it, but that is at the core of what caused my removal.

The rules aren't obscure.

I imagine the vast majority of the server population never has to get a talking to, or any other punishment from DM's, which would prove that.

I mean, maybe you could argue that they are obscure but that the majority of people, who are playing fairly and for fun, and not being awful are not breaking these rules. Maybe.

IMO they are neither obscure and they are in no way limiting to enjoyment of the server as a whole.

What I fail to understand is how, despite absolutely no information regarding any decisions on cases that aren't your own (at least no information that hasn't been passed through an extremely biased lens) you can say that the staff are not consistent or that staff don't know the rules (because they're too obscure).

Maybe you were banned, and I'm sure the majority of the server would agree outside of your discord, because you deserved to be banned. Has that ever occurred to you?

Yeah, no. The rules are very obscure. "Be nice" couldn't be more vague, subject to interpretation, or opinion. And many a ruling aside from that is oft contradicted via various, conflicting interpretations from the staff. Want proof? Here's an entire .zip folder of examples. And a screenshot to boot. Enjoy:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/2lhssjxv ... s.zip/file

Hey in your screenshot why did you very obviously cut it up to somehow favour some specific viewpoint?

[Sockss]

Why is it that 'be nice' is such a hard thing to understand?

Wanting a hard and fast rule in the first place is to know how much of a shit you can be before you get banned, you want the limits to your arseholery. Just don't be an arsehole.

I don't see a problem with anything Atropos has said.

In the case of an incident in which multiple people not grouped together were killed, you should have interactively RP'd with everyone. /s gtfo or I'll kill you and then proceeding to kill people in a location, is shitty and not interactive.

If it is obvious that there is a GROUP 1 against your GROUP 2 and one speaker from GROUP 1 has been interactively RP'd with, then it's fine.

Blanket bombing a location because you interacted with one person (or no people) is not okay.

Attacking a group when one person from that group has been RP'd with, okay.

It's really not that difficult to understand.

[ColorMeLucky]

So fun fact. I'm just going to go through what I've been doing the last 72 hours.

I've been talking to over 40 players since the Banites refused to talk to me directly to resolve any issues. Instead they decided to dig their heels and one of their players straight up was in my face about Frostblade misconduct, but refused (adamantly) to actually offer their information or what not. They could have done it privately, and I would have kept it secret.

Now, I have noticed increasing toxicity in my chat. Quietly observing, I have watched and I have watched.
There are two important things to note here:

1. I have a report that is quite long and includes various strange judgement calls (and sometimes lack thereof) regarding as many possible players as I have, including Frostblades, Banites and yes, Harpers. There are guilty parties on all three sides.

2. I know most of the Harpers from 8-6 months ago. I watched what they were doing, and compared it to the Harper Code as is posted on just about every site about the Harpers. Hell, I possibly know a few active ones now just walking around.
- Harpers are never supposed to instigate war. (They allegedly had according to an ex-Harper.)
- Harpers are never supposed to hold positions of power. (They have held positions of power, again, I have proof.)
- Harpers are never supposed to support their sworn enemies, Bane. (I have seen their actions in game knowing, and them knowing, and thus am quite now worried).

However, we find that strange plots pop up. The Heartstone plot for the grove was... great until you get elemental lords asking Varith to assist, who demands respect but doesn't act menacing in any way, he just kinda shows up, calls you "retarded" (not a great word by the by, that Be Nice rule doesn't seem to apply here) and PvP before you can even react. There are several instances of it.
A disarm build also isn't great when you use it to force RP onto others and then *admit* you forced that RP onto them for no other reason than "They disrespected us". And if they didn't like it? Too bad for them. Now that's not nice.

I have screenshots of as many players as I could find who agreed to speak to me on matters, and whom were fine with providing me their findings, their opinions of the team, and their general expectancy of any outcome regarding transparency. Logs, DM conversations, concerns, screenshots, and even some videos. It's not great for either side. Frostblades are probably too aggressive and burned out but hell, they have a lot of IC reasons to be fighting more so than OOC.

The Server Wide meeting was a mess. Everyone I've spoken too was furious that it was arranged on a day that it ought not to have been, where the only person who could answer most of the harder, necessary questions had to dip out halfway through with most of the DM staff, according to screenshots, then deferring to a missing Admin.

Now, if the Players who think that this report will threaten would like to speak to me and present their evidence, I am more than happy to. I had asked said players to provide their evidence for me so I can properly deal with my faction like a responsible person.

I was asked to step out of my echo chamber. When I did, all I found was a second echo-chamber, and a lot of people too scared to speak up against the DM team because they felt genuinely abandoned or that nothing was being done.
Attacking low-level areas or places not disposed for combat is just stupid. Two forces clashing in Minmir? That's fine. That place has always been contested. Attacking the Arcane Tower were people literally have to hide a floor above just to do proper Tower roleplay and not get messed up because someone can't control their temper and walk away?
That's kinda the Be Nice Rule.

If a DM would like to contact me about my findings? You know how to reach out to me. I have tried several times in the past to ask questions, and to even arrange a time to ask questions, and get some facts to prove to Frostblades you guys were in the clear, but more and more shady stuff kept popping up and remained tight lipped.

Otherwise? I'm just going to do what I promised I would. A simple display of everything I have found. And then offer a very basic overview of everything I have found.

I've been told I'm not even a Frostblade anymore by some players but even so I still assured them that I would investigate, even as I investigated their behavior. And yes. That will be included. It's not all sunshine and rainbows on our side, and I was acknowledging that too.

I do know things I apparently shouldn't. Fact is? It's not hard to find. Ask the people who are hurt for upholding the standards of the Harper faction and you will find that they are happy to reveal a lot of painful things about their usually brief time. A LOT of people know this information because the DM team has not allowed the players to police the Harpers according to the code. It's happened twice that I've seen.

Both times have left the players upset and angry. Their opinions were not respected and instead OOC was blamed (despite OOC having nothing to do with the Harper Code being violated. Seriously. It's basically been mutilated and left on the side of the road at this point in Arelith's history.)

And yes? I am willing to discuss everything I've found. With anyone. Over Reddit, over discord.
I don't intend to play Arelith anymore after seeing just how far it goes, and realising who is who and how they're connected.

In the end? I know I tried to do right, and I'm fine with that. I asked people a lot of questions, and a great many that I didn't even know about or hadn't even met yet both OOC or IC spoke to me. The server is still great. But some things were extremely distasteful.

DM's, you can either choose to ban or reach out to me. Whichever you choose will honestly make the bigger point.

[Aren]

The rules aren't obscure.

Not that it matters much to me, because nothing came of it and it was handled in an adult manner: I had a DM talk to me about the Big Brothering rule - because my male drow tried to ally himself with a newly arrived drowess in the UD, by handing her 3(or 4 can't recall) jars of ooze. I asked about the DMs inquiry, and was told that giving gifts worth 5.000 gold, was expected to have 3-4 RL weeks of RP preceding this.

I fail to see how that relates to this: http://wiki.arelith.com/Switching_characters_rule

[DM Atropos]

even more cherry-picking a la penwize

people who sit there and refuse to post are not exempt from pvp because they are intentionally refusing to interact.

you think you're being transparent, and you are, but not how you think you are

Congratulations. You got it even without the longwinded rants.

[l33tfragiletings]

Calm down people.

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

now i guess its time to watch spyre squirm haha!

p o w e r f u l

what a big report made solely to kick up dust