Arelith

Machado wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 11:35 am

Kuma wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:25 am

I don't like them and won't use them. If they become mandatory I will protest heavily.

I also dislike the idea this is a purely net-positive accessibility concern - using these gives me MORE anxiety than less, and I know I'm not alone in that.

We've done fine for twenty years with the natural flow of roleplay indicating tempo; I don't need a [so and so is typing...] above anyone's head for that, and I think it's a sign of the times that people feel they need that. Overstimulated dopamine receptors needing a constant assurance of 'activity'.

It feels like a 'well another server/game/app/thing has it so we should too' idea. The fact it also doesn't really work as advertised - it isn't a 'typing indicator', it's a chat bar activity indicator - is kind of the icing on the cake. People are going to use it AS IF it were a real typing indicator, despite the fact it's not, which means it's already a sort of skewed metric (add in the heavy customisability of it to that, too).

+1 on this!
Hit the nail in the head, man.

+1 from me as well!
I wasn't sure how to articulate it, and then Kuma nailed it.

Chatting indicators of any kind have always been anxiety inducing to me, and so I'm planning to turn it off entirely once work slows down enough for me to play again.

Greatly enjoy the new feature.

Eliminates the common awkward silences I used to experience where both of us are waiting, thinking the other person is writing a response, as well as the common case of someone writing something slowly, then having the other party walk away thinking they were done.

It has made the chats I have with the other people engaging with the feature much more fluid and seamless, as it makes it immediately recognisable whether the other person is still continuing their line of thought. It's made it very easy to keep conversations feel natural, rather than a stream of odd pauses or speaking over each other.

Am hopeful the opt-in feature makes it more agreeable an addition to the parties with concerns of it being abused or otherwise. I have found most people I interact with regularly have the feature enabled, or at the very least, their own speech indicator and it's made chatting much better, I hope the people who this feature benefits will be able to continue using it, even if some folk decide to entirely opt out.

My only concern, is that the problems of a lack of an indicator I mentioned: people walking away while you're trying to talk to them, or speaking over you, could perhaps become a more common occurence to those that don't engage with the system.
However, these things already happened and frequently before this change. And I have found that it is very obvious when someone has this feature disabled. I imagine with it being so obvious, the chatter would be able to adjust appropriately.
Stopping someone walking past you to talk might be much easier for people who have the feature enabled, than those who don't, however, who will need to type out quick remarks to halt the person, before being able to write what they actually want to express.

I like it.

I like making long posts and I don't like when people walk away from me while I'm typing.

This is an unquestionably positive change.

My problem is that the people who like indicators REALLY like them. I sense that people who wont opt in will slowly find less and less people who want to play with them over time, since the people who like seeing indicators will likely prefer playing with people who use them too, which divides the playerbase. Which is a really scary thought I've had for a few days, and I've been playing with indicators flowing both sides simply because NOT using them became even more anxiety inducing than using them.

Please just remove it entirely, we dont need it. Thanks.

After properly testing it and playing with it more, my opinion is rather the same!
I really like it and find it to be a positive change, especially now that whispers can be hidden. I also really like the delay since I can do my - commands for outfits or the date without the dots.

I've seen several comments about it potentially 'dividing the playerbase' between those who like it and those who don't, but I haven't seen any evidence of this myself. Some of my friends use it, some of my friends don't, we all still play together and there's been no issues at all.
This really comes down to being a setting that everyone has an opinion on. Opinions can't really be right or wrong, they simply are. You have the option to turn it on or off, like everyone else. Don't judge someone else for their preference, I say. There's more important things.

Cthuletta wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 1:42 pm

I've seen several comments about it potentially 'dividing the playerbase' between those who like it and those who don't, but I haven't seen any evidence of this myself. Some of my friends use it, some of my friends don't, we all still play together and there's been no issues at all.

I have seen the same.... I have quackers on and some of the people I RP with do not. The other day we are all standing around RP'in as normal. Some of us quacking and some of us not. Nobody left because they didnt have quackers and nobody was feeling left out or anything at all of that nature.

Quackers make me stop role playing I stop my typing and wait for them to finish (so my character just stands there mute) making the interaction more stilted and less organic in nature.

It's like im type chatting with someone on whats app rather than chatting with someone face to face.

When im in game i try and type like i talk it's slower of course but i attempt to type fast and make the role play more like a real conversation rather than a messenger.
I find quackers prevent this as you get the feeling of being ooc rude, as a result I've turned them off.

chris a gogo wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 6:51 pm

Quackers make me stop role playing I stop my typing and wait for them to finish (so my character just stands there mute) making the interaction more stilted and less organic in nature.

It's like im type chatting with someone on whats app rather than chatting with someone face to face.

When im in game i try and type like i talk it's slower of course but i attempt to type fast and make the role play more like a real conversation rather than a messenger.
I find quackers prevent this as you get the feeling of being ooc rude, as a result I've turned them off.

I do think it's already changing the pace of RP. I was scolded for talking when someone was typing, like now that we have quackers the culture demands we must take turns saying our one line then they say their line... That's how Discord works, not how RL conversation works.

Spriggan Bride wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:18 pm

chris a gogo wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 6:51 pm

Quackers make me stop role playing I stop my typing and wait for them to finish (so my character just stands there mute) making the interaction more stilted and less organic in nature.

It's like im type chatting with someone on whats app rather than chatting with someone face to face.

When im in game i try and type like i talk it's slower of course but i attempt to type fast and make the role play more like a real conversation rather than a messenger.
I find quackers prevent this as you get the feeling of being ooc rude, as a result I've turned them off.

I do think it's already changing the pace of RP. I was scolded for talking when someone was typing, like now that we have quackers the culture demands we must take turns saying our one line then they say their line... That's how Discord works, not how RL conversation works.

The quackers are a tool to facilitate interaction. If anybody is asking you to toggle them on or telling you how you should behave, report them.

Personally, I know they simply help me pace my own RP better. I still feel compelled to fill the silence between posts with flowery emotes or behavioral addendums of my character, and I can also choose to slow down a bit so I don't overwhelm people.
But I won't feel ashamed in the slightest if the scene demands I talk over somebody; I won't 'take turns', I'm playing in a narrative medium that is asymmetric and realistically asynchronous. There are times that merit silence, there are times where I will write a 5 sentences one after the other because I feel it creates a better scene.

Frankly, the argument about quackers dividing the playerbase is either stupid or disingenous. This is a 20 years old silly elf game, no one is going to discriminate you (lol) because you decide you don't want dots over you head when you talk.

If you seriously believe that people are going out of their way to take note of who plays with quackers and who doesn't and actively giving you the silent treatment you probably need to take a break from the game and evaluate why it is making you pranoid.

That said, I don't think most of the people using that argument is doing so sincerely. If you don't like them because you think they look ugly, you just abhor change, or any other reason, just be honest and say it like that instead of making up problems that don't exist and won't. Honesty makes for better feedback.

Now, to a genuine concern; during my few first days with quackers on I too felt compelled to erase whatever I was writing if whoever I was talking too hadn't finished their piece yet, which as people have pointed out made interactions weird and unnatural due to the nature of turns disrupting the flow of the conversation. It was specially bad in big groups.

Iceborn wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:47 pm

But I won't feel ashamed in the slightest if the scene demands I talk over somebody; I won't 'take turns', I'm playing in a narrative medium that is asymmetric and realistically asynchronous.

I want to echo this because it is this mindset that helped me break from the habit. Don't stop yourself from typing because the other person is doing it already. NWN is not forum RP, you are not taking turns. You are not being rude for interrupting someone else during an interaction in real time, that's just how conversations work.

I have noticed that refusing to take turns in groups often causes everyone else to start typing at a more natural pace too, so be the change you want to see in the world yadda yadda.

I can't wait for April Fools to turn quackers into actual ducks over our heads.

Deep Fried Thinking Emoji wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:36 pm

Frankly, the argument about quackers dividing the playerbase is either stupid or disingenous. This is a 20 years old silly elf game, no one is going to discriminate you (lol) because you decide you don't want dots over you head when you talk.

If you seriously believe that people are going out of their way to take note of who plays with quackers and who doesn't and actively giving you the silent treatment you probably need to take a break from the game and evaluate why it is making you pranoid.
...

Given that Hoodoo has already had to issue one warning to the playerbase in response to people pressuring others to turn their quackers on, this stance itself seems silly and disingenuous.

I've been playing NWN PWs since the original NWN was released. These communities will -absolutely- find a way to make drama and in-group out-group dynamics based on the dumbest shit you wouldn't believe. This change is absolutely within the usual "scope" of that, and disparaging those concerns is pure naivete at best and being an obtuse jerk at worst.

ReverentBlade wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:56 am

I've been playing NWN PWs since the original NWN was released. These communities will -absolutely- find a way to make drama and in-group out-group dynamics based on the dumbest shit you wouldn't believe. This change is absolutely within the usual "scope" of that, and disparaging those concerns is pure naivete at best and being an obtuse jerk at worst.

I can definitely echo this.
I've seen firsthand players be alienated because they refused to use Discord. And then there is the whole obvious bias within the playerbase against those who play with -notells on.

Scurvy Cur wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:59 am

Given that Hoodoo has already had to issue one warning to the playerbase in response to people pressuring others to turn their quackers on, this stance itself seems silly and disingenuous.

Which is a different issue alltogether?

Some people also try to pressure others on which emote style is valid and which one is not, but they are not a symptom of a bigger problem, people are not divided between asterisks and quotation marks and avoiding interacting with the other side. Same thing with quackers.

Deep Fried Thinking Emoji wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:09 am

Scurvy Cur wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:59 am

Given that Hoodoo has already had to issue one warning to the playerbase in response to people pressuring others to turn their quackers on, this stance itself seems silly and disingenuous.

Which is a different issue alltogether?

Some people also try to pressure others on which emote style is valid and which one is not, but they are not a symptom of a bigger problem, people are not divided between asterisks and quotation marks and avoiding interacting with the other side. Same thing with quackers.

Because.... ugh...
Whether or not you use asterisks or quotation marks really doesnt affect what you're typing, or how you're typing it.
This is NOT a division in the playerbase because frankly it doesnt change anything to the other side. It doesnt deny or provide any additional IC or OOC inforamation.

So no, it's not a different issue altogether, it's frankly JUST about the quackers. Cheers.

I very much enjoy the quacker and will probably always use it as long as it remains an available feature.

I do not feel like it makes the RP and flow of it more stilted, because I believe that the stilted-ness of it (the I go, you go, I go, you go...) is a feature that a good amount of the playerbase (at least those I RPd with in the past) already already presented. Mimicking the real flow of conversation and discourse, with its natural beats, holds in my personal opinion no "virtuous" connotation. One can try and do that if they like it, but it neither good nor bad - and to my personal preference an excersize that sets unnecessary expectations.

I do appreciate that, when I have posted my line, my conversation partner knows whether I am concocting a second post or not, and I do like to see if the conversation partner has begun typing themselves. This, in my experience and for my preference, facilitates a good flow of roleplay more than any attempt at organic flow of conversation (which, I have experienced, naturally already defaults to I go, you go).

Yay quack.

If I had a dime for every time I was typing out some long thing and the other person ran off before I could hit enter, and every awkward moment I had walked off and caught the person I was RPing with replying at the edge of earshot then about faced and walked back....

If I had a nickel for every time a PvP started prematurely because nobody knows if RP is even being attempted and get jumpy
..

I'd have a pretty fat sack of coins

The Quacker mitigates all of that so I give it two thumbs up

I miss it.

I echo every positive sentiment, and toggling their visibility off ought to make it a nonissue for those who don't for their various and legitimate reasons. There are many reasons I like them, but the one most important to me... having a conversation with multiple people (as small as three or as many as a room full) felt more immersive and logistically reasonable because knowing when someone else was "speaking" allowed it to take on the character of an actual conversation. I hope they are reenabled!

You know what, after this trial period, I've really come around to the idea of quackers, and actually liked having them around.

I have gone from anti-quacker to pro-quacker!

+1

good man of god wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:55 pm

You know what, after this trial period, I've really come around to the idea of quackers, and actually liked having them around.

I have gone from anti-quacker to pro-quacker!

+1

Same!

Honestly, liked 'em, at times i can be a slow typer especially if im writing a complex emote so the 'hey im responding not just afk' is a nice little heads-up for the other person im rp'ing with.

I hope quackers come back.

I was very much enjoying the Quackers, even if I wasn't able to play much due to poor internet situations.