Arelith

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I can't imagine it's very common. And if it is very common - I am curious what sort of level thirty character one might play, that a) enters pvp that often b) looses pvp that often c) is disliked enough by their enemies that a raise isn't considered?

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When I kill someone in pvp I ask them in a Tell "Do you wanna get raised and continue RPing with me or do you want to stay dead and respawn" and if their answer is "can I just get an occ raise and no RP further because uh... I gotta log" then no I don't raise them, regardless of if I know the player or not. If you want a raise after you lost pvp, be prepared to be a slave or tortured for information or other kind of RP where you are RPing the weak. Or just respawn. Or just log.

Crag I think you're a bit over exaggerating when talking about the whole series of updates as they include some amazing turning points in economy, gear wise and money wise. You (and me as well) play here for so long. We are not used to have so many updates in such a short period. It's a new game to discover and learn. I think the devs have been outstanding in the pace of these changes who I didn't even believe were possible in nwn without haks, specially when it comes to reducing lag.

I'd like to hear your long-time-player-opinion on HOW to make death a thing! Because until someone comes up with the 'perfect' solution, we're fishing.

Astral wrote:

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I can't imagine it's very common. And if it is very common - I am curious what sort of level thirty character one might play, that a) enters pvp that often b) looses pvp that often c) is disliked enough by their enemies that a raise isn't considered?

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When I kill someone in pvp I ask them in a Tell "Do you wanna get raised and continue RPing with me or do you want to stay dead and respawn" and if their answer is "can I just get an occ raise and no RP further because uh... I gotta log" then no I don't raise them, regardless of if I know the player or not. If you want a raise after you lost pvp, be prepared to be a slave or tortured for information or other kind of RP where you are RPing the weak. Or just respawn. Or just log.

That's an entirely legitimate outlook to have. But in my experience, most people will say 'yes' to a ressurection and be happy enough to continue rp on whatever terms, or take an ooc raise if they desire. I neither condone nor condemn such actions myself. Nor do I suggest that every character should offer ooc raises. I merly say that in my experience, it is quite common for victors to raise the dead after defeat, for various reasons and more often, the choice 'not' to raise... especialy at high levels... is more an active decision than a passive one.

Okay let's clear something up about it being only a game.

A good game is something that you enjoy and challenges you if games didn't challenge you you're reading a book or watching a film it's the key difference in the medium. However that challenge may be presented.

On arelith whether you get fun from grinding to 30 and collecting the best gear to beating the dungeons(which are by far some of the best dungeons I've seen on NWN). or creating a arching storyline to involve others and work towards a goal. There's a sense of achievement and the dangers are dying and having to try again/losing XP or time spent or your character never getting to live out the story you planned. A game that you scream and rave at but also love is the mark of a truly great game, because that's the game that resonated within you at some level. It's the game you enjoy despite how much it makes you scream because the screaming was worth it to reach the goal.

Let's talk investment. Any investment requires emotional connection otherwise you're not invested. If you're not invested you don't care. That's just factually true and undeniable.

Investment Defined: An act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.

So if you've not invested in your character you don't care so yes you -should- be annoyed. you should care when something happens. The problem is people confusing being invested in your character to being invested to win. former is the right way to look at it the latter is not.

Edit: I never say yes to a raise. you want to rp it happens before death not after as death is the end of RP. If you need to kill to RP it's frankly not going to be good RP nor worth my time. (there's a subdue option now. there's not even an excuse to kill to rp now)

DM GrumpyCat wrote:It's true, in the worst case scenario, if you get pvped and remain unraised four times within 16 days (Presuming a spread wherein one is killed in pvp once per four days,. worst case scenario here) You could end up with 8 rl hours time for all your stats to return to normal.

But... outside of situations of griefing, how often does this actually happen?

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I can't imagine it's very common. And if it is very common - I am curious what sort of level thirty character one might play, that a) enters pvp that often b) looses pvp that often c) is disliked enough by their enemies that a raise isn't considered?

I invite you to play any kind of openly non-lolth( or kiaran or selvetarm) worshipping drow. It is extremely easy to get into multiples vs 1 PvP if your character has any level of actual conviction about their beliefs.

This is the reason most characters found to be apostates simply stop being played. A drow exile has nowhere to go, but can count on being PvPed constantly, especially if they try to stir the pot at all by remaining in the city.

Edit:

Quoth wrote:About recent changes.

First look great I don't have to be online for this then second look and realise if I don't want to be online for this it will tick down 4 times as slowly as before. So if you're unlucky or PvP happy it's now a 32 hour offline wait for it to clear up as a worse case.

That wasn't so much as listening to feedback as it was. "Fine we'll make it offline but we're punishing you even harder for that as well." It was like the dev team was forced to change something they didn't want because of the backlash but threw in a kidney punch just to get back at the playerbase for disagreeing with them. That's at least how it comes off.

I'm in agreement with this. Making the offline wait unreasonably long just seems like a dishonest way to force the player to wait it out logged in. Bad form.

It's almost as if Drow are a zealous race that don't take kindly to heretical worship.

Quoth wrote: I never say yes to a raise.

That's because you log out before anything happens.

Durvayas wrote:A drow exile has nowhere to go...

It's not just Drow exiles, it's any monster/Underdark race. Now with the restrictions on quarters and the lack of Laurick use, even Outcasts are somewhat strained, though not to the point that "real" Underdark races are.

Barradoor wrote:It's almost as if Drow are a zealous race that don't take kindly to heretical worship.

Rather the point. Grumpy asked how the given scenario happens. I explained that it happens rather easily. If anything, the new death changes will put an even stronger damper on apostacy RP, and you'll see even less religious variation than before. When the death exp penalties were decreased, we saw a huge uptick in people playing non-lolth drow. Coincidently, house Xun'viir flourished as La'laskra-ism took off for a bit. There also became more openly Kiaransalee worshipping drow.

Weaker death penalties support riskier playstyles and character concepts. Its not so painful to create conflict, or play a concept that might get killed a lot just for being when the penalties are low. If these frankly terrible death changes stay in effect, we'll almost surely see a massive drop-off of non-lolthite concepts in the drow community.

Almost as if "drow" need to learn the meaning of heretic before throwing the accusation around.

My reasoning on -NO- RP after death:

Killing to capture or killing to RP instantly means I don't think you're RPing the severity of death, because it just proves you think it's a common aliment to be cured and -that- is a problem where the winner has failed to RP death correctly. It's another example of death not being on the loser to impart it's meaningfulness. If you kill over an insult or pettiness you've failed to treat death as what it is but instead chosen to use it as a mild punishment especially if you want to raise to RP further. It's basically been used as a OOC slap to the other players face. "I'm bigger and stronger." and not what it is, which is ending another's life. You don't kill a 16 year old for mouthing off at you and not showing the respect you've earned. Yeah their an idiot. yes you could very easily do so but it's just not your first port of call. You might want to slap him and remind him of his place and with the subdue option you now have, you don't have an excuse not to use it. When you refuse to subdue but instead go for the kill "just in case I lose for not using my mega powerful kukri/scrimitar or my magic to put them down quickly." and because of this to give death meaning I refuse to rp with you afterwards.

Death on the server starts with the staff's approach to it. not the players. You limit what is allowed to be killed over and even who is allowed to kill(Players that have spent hours and a large investment of time in their character and thus the server) And instantly death becomes as rare as it's meant to be. Killing becomes this abhorrent act which doesn't happen in the middle of the city in a well traveled area. it in fact becomes rare it happens in the wilds. in private, alone away from others it becomes what it's meant to be and that's without you changing anything about your death script. it instantly makes death mean something because you give it meaning. You've made it rare you've made it an important act and without doing that death continues to be a meaningless as the disease effect. I just can't get a spell cast to remove it now, however it's still meaningless. It's because of that meaningless nature that increasing the punishment for it is been treated with such a large amount of backlash. To make death matter the server needs reviewing not the drawback for death. You can't increase the punishment and expect things to work if the same instances that needed death to be have little impact are still around. You can't approach PvP with "Be nice and a single line RP back and forth" for death to be allowed as a result and expect death to have any meaning. A level 30 monk druid shows up and kills me and my allies at lvl 15 while we're killing -something- for little to no reason have meaning when it doesn't that doesn't -deserve- meaning that deserves to be ignored and that's the problem. The staff are failing to see the flaw with death. It isn't your scripting it's your ruling/management of it. That's what needs fixing first.

Barradoor wrote:It's almost as if Drow are a zealous race that don't take kindly to heretical worship.

Quoth wrote: I never say yes to a raise.

That's because you log out before anything happens.

In PVP I never say yes to a raise either. I find that raising afterwords trivializes the act of murder and the death itself. If I start a fight and I lose it, that's on me. I want there to be gravity to that choice.

If someone starts a fight with me and kills me, I want there to be a gravity to that choice too, and I want them to remain accountable for the choice they made.

Quoth wrote:Almost as if "drow" need to learn the meaning of heretic before throwing the accusation around.

No, no they don't. Drow society revolved around Snuggle a Bugbear over your 'peers'
How easily is this done? HMM? Maybe by accusing someone of being a non lolthite.'

Drow also shouldn't actively go about telling people what they worship. When you tell everyone you follow llaskara and get your teeth broken over the curb, what did you expect?

Quoth wrote: If you kill over an insult or pettiness you've failed to treat death as what it is but instead chosen to use it as a mild punishment especially if you want to raise to RP further. It's basically been used as a OOC slap to the other players face. "I'm bigger and stronger." and not what it is, which is ending another's life. You don't kill a 16 year old for mouthing off at you and not showing the respect you've earned.

Do you know how drow work? Honestly?

Quoth wrote:just in case I lose for not using my mega powerful kukri

Saul?

Quoth wrote:The staff are failing to see the flaw with death. It isn't your scripting it's your ruling/management of it. That's what needs fixing first.

You lose a lot of your ability to complain about death when you log out of the game 10-15 times in a week as soon as someone hostiles you and say //ohmygod guys im telling on you!~!@#!// in character.

Lord, this thread you guys.

hmm... rly makes u think

gilescorey wrote:hmm... rly makes u think

:cjthink:

Only took us 7 pages to get into the "You're doing it wrong" accusations. Great job everyone.

Voidstone Roulette wrote:

gilescorey wrote:hmm... rly makes u think

:cjthink:

Never reply to me or my wife's son ever again

Nitro wrote:Only took us 7 pages to get into the "You're doing it wrong" accusations. Great job everyone.

Sarcasm, you're doing it wrong.

gilescorey wrote:

Voidstone Roulette wrote:

gilescorey wrote:hmm... rly makes u think

:cjthink:

Never reply to me or my wife's son ever again

:cjcry:

i like this thread. however i feel wrong for agreeing w/ barradoor on a public forum.

:cjnoose:

SilverCrow wrote:i like this thread. however i feel wrong for agreeing w/ barradoor on a public forum.

Same

Voidstone Roulette wrote:

gilescorey wrote:

Voidstone Roulette wrote:
:cjthink:

Never reply to me or my wife's son ever again

:cjcry:

*pic of superman saying "stop it" two times*

SilverCrow wrote:i like this thread. however i feel wrong for agreeing w/ barradoor on a public forum.

same

SilverCrow wrote:i like this thread. however i feel wrong for agreeing w/ barradoor on a public forum.

Same :\

SilverCrow wrote:i like this thread. however i feel wrong for agreeing w/ barradoor on a public forum.

Same :ז

only bad thing about this update is the fact that u have to stay logged for PVE deaths otherwise the hours don't count offline

none of the rest of this gobbledygook matters