Arelith

Coreybush11 wrote:I'd guess the standard for unseelie would be Enchantment + Abjuration?
And then Abyss/Infernalist would be Conjuration + Abjuration?

Abjuration solely for that G.Dispel spam.
Man I am so hype.

Abjuration will definitely make the spam strong, though both pacts have other options, as level 30 greater dispelling will be pretty solid with no foci:

Necromancy on the fiendlock gives them access to a crowd control spell which they can pair with mind spell immunity on their summons, a potent combination.

In the same vein, a feylock with transmutation will have a decent spammable allow, which will help with mind spell immune spawns, if memory serves.

This, I suspect, will be the source of the greatest variation in how warlocks of the same pact type are played.

DR comment. Remember casting spells Cancels any expertise or improved expertise! This alone is a huge minus for warlocks vs Dwarven defenders. they can use all abilities (fighting ones) without issue, but if we use a spell or the staff it cancels the extra ac so that DD will have the AC over warlocks

So... the spells on the list mith.... those are the ONLY spells warlocks get now? but they are unlimited?

so selecting spells isn't needed as it doesn't matter what you pick now when you level up?

Pre-update level 17 warlock (well, 16 warlock/1 monk, with Infernal pact) still has access to all her old bard spells with infinite castings, which includes haste, ethereal visage, and ice storm. Will these be removed on level-up? Just started multiclassing as monk, so can't take another warlock level until 20.

Preacher wrote:So... the spells on the list mith.... those are the ONLY spells warlocks get now? but they are unlimited?

so selecting spells isn't needed as it doesn't matter what you pick now when you level up?

Correct, and yes, this is policed/applied on level up, when you level as a warlock.

Can we add remove curse to the spell list for abyssal/demonic. if we can place it, shouldn't we be able to remove it?
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and does the lvl 0 resistance has the duration lengthened?

is there a chance to get some healing on the abyssal side as well?

Just an off question, but would it be possible to remove the low HD cap for the sleep spell? As useful as it is for killing rats on the ship, it becomes useless after level 5 or so, and its use, I feel, would encourage metagaming an opponent's level anyway.

All this stuff is possible, but I'm going to hold off making changes until we see how things work today.

Any word on how soon FL is getting this?

When I've figured out migration code. Since I spent this evening debugging crafting and am flying to Canada tomorrow, it will likely be next week before I sync FL up with the latest changes.

The main delay will be migrating the crafting database.

Sweet. Is it safe to make warlocks on FL now in the interim, or will they need to be remade?

Well, you can make them, but they'll follow the old rules. It'll be cleaner to wait as you won't have a vestigial staff hanging around at the end.

Mithreas wrote:It'll be cleaner to wait as you won't have a vestigial staff hanging around at the end.

Couldn't you just chuck that sucker in the trash?

I'm not sure I get exactly how this works. Does casting Hold Person (as a fey warlock) on someone do just the blast ability, or does it do a will save vs. stun in addition to the blast?

It will do both, Twily.
-First you make a ranged touch attack. If it hits, move on to the next step. If it misses, nothing happens (not even a will save vs paralysis).
-Spell Resistance is taken into account. You have to beat that.
-The Eldritch Blast damage is dealt.
-A will save is made against the paralysis of Hold Person.

Charm and dominate spells do not deal damage.

Alright, thanks!

Question: What happens when your level 30 Warlock wants to cast Hold Person/Monster on a level 3 troublemaker? Is there a way to avoid splattering their entrails everywhere?

Answer: They probably shouldn't have pissed you off. Or use a wand, which should work on lowbies.

Really though, the answer isn't Much different than if you were a mundane with no holding spells available. Tell them to cease and desist, inform them they will be fired upon if their unscanctioned troublemaking behavior does not stop immediately, and that the use of force may be unavoidably lethal, and if they refuse to cooperate, well. They sort of made their bed.

Note: My opinions on level 3 troublemakers are my own, but generally I've seen way too many interactions that boil down to "Troublemaker gets caught, law-person tries to ask for their surrender so RP can continue, Troublemaker shouts out 'you'll never take me alive, pig!' (or some equivalent), they get their wish, and then get super upset that their troublemaking ended in death".

Valo65 wrote:It will do both, Twily.
-First you make a ranged touch attack. If it hits, move on to the next step. If it misses, nothing happens (not even a will save vs paralysis).
-Spell Resistance is taken into account. You have to beat that.
-The Eldritch Blast damage is dealt.
-A will save is made against the paralysis of Hold Person.

Charm and dominate spells do not deal damage.

Speaking of- can't believe I hadn't thought of that one yet... Ought a pure (all the way to 30) warlock take spell penetration in order to beat some races' and cleric/druid buff SR? Or would the high investment in casting class levels suffice to beat that?

Absolutely take Spell Penetration. My Warlock had Epic Spell Penetration. There's nothing worse than trying to murder someone with SR and having your blasts harmlessly bounce off.

Warlocks, unlike mages and druids, do not have a native means of dropping SR, and unlike bards and clerics cannot roll up their sleeves and beat the crap out of a high SR target (at least not as well as those two classes). Spell penetration is probably more important to them than most casting classes.

Feedback/review thoughts so far: while running around on my warlock before I leveled I was getting the benefits of both sides. fey and abyssal/demonic. I actually felt quite useful. I was close to leveling and when I did, found myself only able to use half of the abilities... I felt a little useful still but base bards don't get that many spells as it is and now it seems like the push is to encourage things other then spells. add to that the abyssal/demonic side doesn't have the invisibilities or etherial visage and it seems if something gets to you, you can't stand up very well at all without those and don't even have haste to run away very easily. With how buggy darkness can be at times combined with players actually getting mad at me for using it. (yes, mad, and I mean players NOT characters.) darkness, fear and grease have limited use when grease effects you and your summons as well and you have no freedom spell and then thus far fear hasn't been very reliable at all ether...

so far those are my thoughts. More to come as I play/test more.

Ecstatic wrote:Warlocks, unlike mages and druids, do not have a native means of dropping SR, and unlike bards and clerics cannot roll up their sleeves and beat the crap out of a high SR target (at least not as well as those two classes). Spell penetration is probably more important to them than most casting classes.

Mord's scroll (monks excluded).
As for cleric and druid SR, a wand of lesser spell breach will do, as I believe Spell Resistance (the spell) is rather high up on the list of things to strip (just checked, it's 11th, but the spells that breach prioritizes aren't spells clerics and druids are likely to have).

So, you'll have trouble with monks. Good. Don't make any monks angry -- or get one of your lackeys to deal with him/her. A smart warlock will know his limitations, his enemy, and his chances.

Use UMD and use your head.

Hamatreya wrote:

Ecstatic wrote:Warlocks, unlike mages and druids, do not have a native means of dropping SR, and unlike bards and clerics cannot roll up their sleeves and beat the crap out of a high SR target (at least not as well as those two classes). Spell penetration is probably more important to them than most casting classes.

Mord's scroll (monks excluded).
As for cleric and druid SR, a wand of lesser spell breach will do, as I believe Spell Resistance (the spell) is rather high up on the list of things to strip (just checked, it's 11th, but the spells that breach prioritizes aren't spells clerics and druids are likely to have).

So, you'll have trouble with monks. Good. Don't make any monks angry -- or get one of your lackeys to deal with him/her. A smart warlock will know his limitations, his enemy, and his chances.

Use UMD and use your head.

Important part bolded. Most clerics, druids, and bards will have multiclassing to use mord's scrolls, but it'll cost them.

You probably want to avoid building yourself into a situation where your character is failing a large portion of their offensive casting attempts if you don't happen to feel like busting out 7-10k gold on a scroll just that moment, provided you can find one. Don't get me wrong, you should carry the scrolls too. Warlocks aren't exactly feat starved, though, so there's not a ton of reason to avoid bucking for the spell penetration feats.

Ecstatic wrote:

Hamatreya wrote:

Ecstatic wrote:Warlocks, unlike mages and druids, do not have a native means of dropping SR, and unlike bards and clerics cannot roll up their sleeves and beat the crap out of a high SR target (at least not as well as those two classes). Spell penetration is probably more important to them than most casting classes.

Mord's scroll (monks excluded).
As for cleric and druid SR, a wand of lesser spell breach will do, as I believe Spell Resistance (the spell) is rather high up on the list of things to strip (just checked, it's 11th, but the spells that breach prioritizes aren't spells clerics and druids are likely to have).

So, you'll have trouble with monks. Good. Don't make any monks angry -- or get one of your lackeys to deal with him/her. A smart warlock will know his limitations, his enemy, and his chances.

Use UMD and use your head.

Important part bolded. Most clerics, druids, and bards will have multiclassing to use mord's scrolls, but it'll cost them.

You probably want to avoid building yourself into a situation where your character is failing a large portion of their offensive casting attempts if you don't happen to feel like busting out 7-10k gold on a scroll just that moment, provided you can find one. Don't get me wrong, you should carry the scrolls too. Warlocks aren't exactly feat starved, though, so there's not a ton of reason to avoid bucking for the spell penetration feats.

Speak for yourself.
I've tried to fit in two greater spell foci, and power attack and cleave (for obvious reasons) along with a much needed skill augmenting feat. Also being a feylock, had to splurge on great charisma. So I have no feats to spare, unfortunately. I can only hope 27 levels is enough to bust through most SR. Pretty sure I'll be fine.

Maybe have Greater Dispelling lower SR by 5?

The new 'locks are great. I'm only level 4, but I'm loving it. In anticipation of later levels, though, I am still of the opinion that DCs should be modified. We have a rather awkward stat spread, and while dexterity and constitution aren't as important as they were, because bards lack access to Epic Spell Foci our disabling abilities are really quite pathetic, especially considering most players will invest in save gear that makes our 33 - 35 DC (and that's with heavy investment in Charisma) disabling spells ineffective. I suppose being able to cast them an infinite number of times sort of makes up for that, but I'd rather not cast and hope that barbarian doesn't have +10 uni saves on his gear (spoiler: he does).