Arelith

AstralUniverse wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:22 am

Tikin wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:57 am

I wonder if the team would be ok with me using “…” at times, or if would be frowned upon?

People have been doing this for 20 years and despite it being purely ooc, it's far more elegant than quackers and I dont recall anyone complaining.

If you're giving someone a ... to indicate you're talking to them, I dont see the problem.
If you're ending your long post with a ... to indicate that you arent done talking I also dont see a problem.

The difference is that these examples above dont happen all that often, compared to the dots who happen all the time, thus there's no real opt-out from quackers if it goes in. people will be subconsciously trained to give less attention to people who opt-out because, again, they are always on, rather than something you add in your text in very specific situations.

I've always used ellipsis to mark hesitation, or any kind of noticeable pause in my character's speech.
A sentence that trails off, and may or may not be continued immediately. I wouldn't expect anybody to think the ellipsis are an indication that they should wait until I'm done typing - in fact, if they did wait they'd probably spend a LOT of time just waiting. I enjoy to play indecisive and emotionally fraught characters that may change their mind, or aren't entirely sure what they themselves are thinking; if you wait for them to make up their mind, you will die of age before you get a word in.

Point in case, a lot of people use vastly different writing style and have different, let's call them, cues. Signs and hints that indicate the pacing of the person behind the character. If you are an experienced RPer yourself you can sort of intuit these - it's how a lot of people manage to still pace themselves without quackers. As a self-proclaimed experienced RPer - no autographs will be given this time, sorry - I'd say I can definitely live without quackers, but this tool did help me considerably to read other people - and simultaneously let them read my own activity - to better pace our habits and our writing.

People use "..." to indicate they're speechless, usually in a kind of dismissive way so I'm not really in love with it, but I wouldn't immediately take it to mean you're hesitating.

Maybe it's just better to emote * thinking * until the quackers come back (which I have the feeling they will)

The problem is, again, that people DO in fact get used to play around the quackers and walk away on people who are typing without using quackers. This is a fact, and is evident in this thread. You can accept it or not. You can also say that "of course you'll run into that problem if you turn these quacks off" and that's precisely the issue and precisely why there's no opting out of this.

I'm not saying quackers dont solve ANYTHING. I'm saying they do more harm than good, and the fact people walk away on you if you arent showing dots, where previously before quackers exist, they would sometimes stay a bit longer, is a strong evidence that there's no opting out. You're also going to look very rude if you walk away on someone while they're typing because you've opted out and you dont see their quacks. Saying there's an opt-out is just not real. Delusion. There's opt-out only mechanically, but not REALLY.

Now that we've established that there's no opting out - have fun seeing me with dots over my head 24/7 even when I'm not about to actually post anything. This is surely going to do wonders for my RP and all players who have their chat bar active for no reason very often.

This is all or nothing - and I prefer the nothing.

Bring it back, bring it back!

Seriously, for me at least I massively benefited from this, gives slower players chance to get involved. I got comfortably used to this, and really noticed my experience go down after it was turned off. I'm not a slow typer by any means, but there are some who I shan't name who take an eternity to reply, it's helped me know that they haven't just gone afk . Also, I feel it allows some to be more creative in their writing, often people can be rushed to reply to keep the conversation going.

I vote for being able to toggle.

I prefer it not here. But if it must be, then have it be opt-in, not permanent.

I cannot handle the massive amount of input if I was forced to see it from everyone talking around me.

I already miss the Quackers if I'm honest.
I liked them for my own pacing, and to indicate if I suddenly had to go AFK without warning which happens quite a lot with me due to the little one.
I kept my eyes peeled for a few of the concerns that were mentioned early on so I could see how they evolve or manifested.

The first being that people would stop typing if they saw someone else typing, I didn't really see this all that often nor do I really stop typing what I was already saying if I saw other Quackers going off. I slowed down a bit and paced myself in a conversation, but there was no 'You go, I go, they go, you go, I go-' pattern that I could really see. It carried on as it normally would, though I would see the Quackers and not get distracted by Youtube in another tab waiting for others to reply. I found it kept me much more engaged.

The second concern was being somewhat socially outcasted if you didn't use them. A small few of the people I RP with the most decided to opt out of the Quackers. Obviously I can't speak FOR them, but I will note that while around them, I didn't see anyone brush them off or fail to interact with them. Including myself, I quickly got the gist after about two posts they didn't use Quackers and carried on as normal, being patient if they were a slow typer. I was MORE likely to wait for a response this way, which makes me chuckle since I'd at times get the Greentext of "Sorry, ninja'd!" after a while. It happens, not really a biggie. I'd wait if someone who DID use Quackers suddenly stopped typing too, I'm just more likely to connect the dots that they went AFK before being told. So again, not really much of a difference there.
Myself and every person I've spoken to who do use the Quackers seem to share the sentiment that if someone doesn't want to use them and doesn't want to see them, it's not an issue. It may QoL for me, but others don't see it that way, and that is okay too.

I heavily disagree with the 'All or Nothing' sentiment. Much like other aspects in this and any other game, the Quackers and their usage boils down to opinion and preference. I believe I mentioned this before, where an opinion isn't truly right or wrong, it simply 'is'.
As an example, if you dislike being a Paladin, you're not likely to play them.
If you dislike Family RP, you're not likely to make them.
If you dislike the Quackers... you're not likely to have them.
It is entirely valid and acceptable to not want to use something. It is equally valid and acceptable for others to want to use that same something. Having it as an option but not a requirement gives everyone their own choice.

I loved it. I liked the different options of using it. And I like having some kind of on/off delay so if someone stops typing but has the box still open it doesn't go on endlessly.

How many more posts of people missing the quackers until they come back? :S Seriously, I don't see why they are still not back. People clearly want them and they can be disabled for those who do not want them. What is the reason for not having them right now?

As someone who dislikes quackers myself, I will say that in order to fully test out what happens to server culture over time, you most certainly need a lot longer time than just two weeks.

Someone else mentioned it, and I agree. 2 weeks was too short. At the very least, two months. Habits take time to break and form, two or even three months would give the devs and DMs enough time to be able to spot shifts of behavior in server culture.

And, in order to test for that, those of us who still dislike quackers should be allowed to opt out. And vice versa.

The fact so many people already managed to get used to them and now having hard time breaking the habit goes to show that perhaps 2 weeks was too long.

AstralUniverse wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2024 7:21 am

The fact so many people already managed to get used to them and now having hard time breaking the habit goes to show that perhaps 2 weeks was too long.

No... Nice words you like to try and place into peoples mouths though. We are not having a hard time "Breaking a habit"... ... We would like the massive QOL improvement back.

If YOU dont like it thats one thing but trying to turn this into something that it isnt, well... Thats a habit you probally need to break.

I think the typing indicators are a lovely feature. They allow me to be able to tell that someone is working on a response, so I can wait a bit to hit enter with the next prompt, improving the quality of conversation and roleplay.

It makes me wanna cry to see that there are PvP concerns about this, because I really wish people would be better RPers than that.

Not something I ever want to see but if it's not mandatory then I have no issue with it.

Loved the quacker, i hope it sees a return.

i miss quackers

Played on the Star Wars nwn server for ages a while back, they have "quackers" or something like it and I found it a real boon to RP if for no other reason than it let me know when the PC/s I was engaged in conversation with were crafting a response instead of wondering if they were afk, zoned out, bored af.

I was so happy when after a break I returned to play on Arelith to find there was a trial of "quackers" and was morose when the trial ended and they were gone.

As for specific feedback I say:

They should universal and always on not an "opt in" as the objective benefit is pretty clear vs the theory crafted subjective naysaying.
That said if the distance at which they are visible is tunable to a more conversational distance (perhaps a little further than the whisper range) this would probably mitigate any issues of "overload" from a game with 101 visual buff effects but a few dots will cause meltdown.

+1 for quackers return

This player fully supports the full implementation of the quackers and the way they were implemented!

Well done!

I just want to note that this hasn't been forgotten.

I have been very busy with a game-release schedule IRL and that's been eating up all my time. Internal discussions about the path forward regarding the 2nd trial will commence in about 2 weeks.

Is this still something we are going to see more of?

Yes, please bring back round 2! I personally found these to be very helpful in group RP or to see that oh someone isn't finished speaking I should wait.

On some feedback of quakers, I never really got to this thread but I just wanted to say.

As much as the classic RP scum tactic of attacking someone when they start quaking is real...

Because of quakers, I was able to accept someone's surrender mid PVP. I knew they were typing.

They do have benefits.

People waiting til someone's typing to attack should result in a vacation from the server.

But it's that just sort of interesting? An RP tool, that would improve RP, and are quite popular, is being abused by the same bad actors, as everything seems to be abused by them.

The PvP blood hounds, that only use RP to facilitate their justification for killing other players.

As with many things, yet another potentially useful tool, held under intense scrutiny because the people whom don't play Arelith to RP, but play it to kill other players might potentially use it to gain an unfair advantage over other players, because all they care about is winning the PvP fight.

It's a shame that an RP server can't even have what is commonplace on other RP servers, or other social games in general, because Arelith's culture is so mired in people only caring about murdering each other.

Kalthariam wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:53 pm

People waiting til someone's typing to attack should result in a vacation from the server.

But it's that just sort of interesting? An RP tool, that would improve RP, and are quite popular, is being abused by the same bad actors, as everything seems to be abused by them.

The PvP blood hounds, that only use RP to facilitate their justification for killing other players.

As with many things, yet another potentially useful tool, held under intense scrutiny because the people whom don't play Arelith to RP, but play it to kill other players might potentially use it to gain an unfair advantage over other players, because all they care about is winning the PvP fight.

It's a shame that an RP server can't even have what is commonplace on other RP servers, or other social games in general, because Arelith's culture is so mired in people only caring about murdering each other.

I've been on Arelith for 18+ years now and I know past administrations grew very careful about too many bans due to lower player counts, especially just before EE when everyone was uncertain if we had another year or even a few months left and every player was precious simply for the life of the server.

However, with Arelith at its highest ever player count, it may be time to start dropping the hammer liberally and hopefully either change the culture or at least just remove the bad actors.

Now for the positive stuff with the quackers, I would love these to come back, though I would prefer if they could respect things like whisper range (only see them if you are in that range when in whisper mode...not sure if that is possible, but would be great) or just not show up if you are sending a tell or contacting DMs or whatever.

But knowing someone is actively typing a response is a huge boon so you can sync up your pace with them.

I still sorely miss the quackers. Im hoping they return, the short time they were in, I feel the quality of roleplay only increased and I still find myself wishing they were in while having larger conversations.