Arelith

Rodent wrote:You can likely retool the barbarians in the spires and the talassians so they are more friendly for late-teen dungeoning. After that, the surface does need a long, contiguous dungeon stretch in the manner of the UD ruins/beholders. I would suggest making an area for the abyss, some sort of fortress or some new fixed map area that you can lead into from Talassians

ngl i'd absolutely murder a man to remake the 363rd

Cortex wrote: A hard to get to dungeon(pirate cove) as is, for late teens-early epics with very deadly mobs becomes outright impossible to do when these mages walk in.

I agree that the presence of these mages on a pirate island makes little sense. On the other hand, the difficulty of pirate cove is very dependent on a build. It can be tough for melee characters, but it was complete breeze for my soloing arcane archer post level 17. Same for Talassians.

-V-

The Earls Manor in Minmir could use some good refurbishment.

Such a great area, very detailed in terms of area build but the mobs in there are completely unrewarding, at least it was that the last time I checked.

Going to say a revamp of some surface dungeons in not only aesthetics but also in content would be super refreshing. A lot of them as Kuma pointed out have been the same for at least ten years. While it is cool that there are some areas you can kind of go back to and see some degree of the previous philosophy I think the benefits of changing things outweigh anything we gain by limiting these areas. I recently leveled a UDer to late epics and it really is a joke in terms of the difference in quality of experience once you get to mid/late teens and onwards into epics. I'd really say it is more like 18-30 on surface that ends up painful.

After all, as others have pointed out, there is a reason on my UD characters I will constantly run into surfacers in ruins/duergar.

I went 6-22 in 4 months in UD, nerf surface

18-to 30 is perhaps the hardest spot for Surfacers, having to go to the UD for said level ranges, but in my opinion almost all the content on Surface (excluding Bullywugs, Bandits by Cordor, Sea Bandits by Crow's nest, Orclands) is super old and is in need of a tweaking.

I mean after 21, yeah, that's the worst, but even before then, the surface is still pretty dungeon starved. This is furthermore a very serious problem that greatly affects the efforts to create any real atmosphere between the UD and Surface...I mean, lets be real. Tons of surfacers try to make nice with UD characters purely because they just need somewhere to grind.

Before level 7 in the UD feels like a constant contest for somewhere to grind. After level 7 on the surface feels like a constant contest for somewhere to grind. This is problem. Plox fix. Uncuck Orclands.

Orclands being buffed imo is the first step to solving the
"WE DONT WANT SURFACERS IN THE UD'
"But I don't want to stay level 23 forever" issue.

ActionReplay wrote: What exact level range is the main issue here? Early Epics or Mid-teens?

Both early epics and mid-late teens.

Barradoor wrote:Orclands being buffed imo is the first step to solving the
"WE DONT WANT SURFACERS IN THE UD'
"But I don't want to stay level 23 forever" issue.

Problem is buffing the orclands again will just turn it into the mass area everyone goes to again for easy lvling. It was the favorite spot for both UD folks and surfacers.

If only there were some kind of middle ground.

Sab1 wrote:Problem is buffing the orclands again will just turn it into the mass area everyone goes to again for easy lvling. It was the favorite spot for both UD folks and surfacers.

That's because it was overtuned. You could go into Orclands at high teens and not leave until 30, and with relative ease at that.

Like Lorkas said, there's a middle ground. And besides - a lot of the great areas in the Underdark's similar level range (thanks to ActionReplay), like the Ruins or Myconids, simply didn't exist when Orclands was at its peak.

What you saw then was just a mirrored version of how things are now, except instead of three or four viable zones in that range there was one, and that one was Orclands.

Yes, please rebuff Orclands to something closer to their former glory.
#MoreSibayadTraffic

I think a lot of the dungeons in the Skull Crags could be redone. You could also add more "sky druid" zones.

The Viper Monastery, Glorag Mur, and the Guldorand Crypts, to my knowledge, have not been touched in years.

There's been a lot of thematic changes to the Crags - Soulhaven in Guldorand (and closer to the Vipers), moving the Weatherstone onto the actual mountainside, the creation of a port in Guldorand, the decline of golemmaking w/ Glorag Mur, the resurgence of Talassians, that I think you could make it a more dynamic place.

Also, Minmir. Boy. Talk about wasted potential. It's an area seeped in server history (see most DM events, and FL) but it's still untouched and rather generic. The addition of the "Upriver" portions were great, but there could still be more.

All of these would be areas in that level 15-25 range.

I also fundamentally believe that the journey to epics should also be a journey across the island. (from south to north) Unfortunately, this is not the case, and has not been in the case, in some time.

ok I will probably get hit for saying this but..........

since when has it all turned into I got to level 765 before you did with my umpteenth toon

sure the ultimate goal is the be Phenomenal Cosmic Power, without the teeny tiny living space. But have we really forgotten its the story of how you got there is whats important.

Have we simply become enamored with being the unkillable without a gank squad level 30 that we dont even recall how the story has played out?

so some areas havent been reworked or some have been detuned to keep everyone from leveling from 18 to 30 in a week.

I know I have had four characters who were shelved before 30 just because the story pushing them didnt have another chapter as others moved on, so they did as well.

Sure the Dread Mage might have been a misplaced spawn. OK not people may have to think and use tactics instead of Im level 30 and the gods kiss my booted feet, ill stomp this mage with my pinkie toe.

Our devs rock, no question asked, but maybe a players we should remember why we roleplay, and as far as I know its not to just be level 30

I don't think anyone is saying that we don't roleplay but grinding and going to dungeons our level is something that people do, whether they circle-grind or adventure RP through it. We're expressing that dungeons need some touch-ups or work. We're not saying that we should abandon the RP formula and become a full on PVE circle grind server.

This thread is about offering our critique of a problem, and has been rather productive in my opinion.

just seemed like everything was about having a place to gain xp, but maybe i just read too much into things

Love the Viper monks, but that maze can be annoying. As for Minmir Manor, no idea what lvl it's for but turn undead is pretty useless there. I like fighting undead but it seems places with undead spawns are never as popular. What I dread is when it seems people always want the spawns made easier, I love some of the challenges, like being afraid of certain mages.

As for changes, then push for changes ig. Give the devs a reason to pay attention. Not to toot my own horn, but a few of us have been trying to lead people into making changes at Minmir ig. It might happen, it might not but it gives devs a reason to look at maybe changing a place that hasn't changed in over 10 years. Maybe its time ig to try and start forcing open that door in Glorag Mur. if they see people trying to make changes ig, it might help with changes being made. There is never a guarantee it will change, but at the very least you get some good rp out of it.

Shadofury wrote:just seemed like everything was about having a place to gain xp, but maybe i just read too much into things

My posts were about the discrepancy between dungeon quantity and quality in the Underdark and the Surface, and to stress the fact that adventuring RP becomes constrained when there is so few variety of dungeons to play in. It's interesting, and fun to go through Kholingen the first few times, but the lack of variety necessitates that I do it a great deal many times more. And whenever I play another character, I hit that same wall, again and again.

since when has it all turned into I got to level 765 before you did with my umpteenth toon

I didn't read anyone talking about how levelling speed was a competition with someone else, and really I'm a little bit confused on how you actually derived that point from any post in this thread.

Sure the Dread Mage might have been a misplaced spawn. OK not people may have to think and use tactics instead of Im level 30 and the gods kiss my booted feet, ill stomp this mage with my pinkie toe.

Moving on to your sentences about the Dread Mage, which basically end up being a slightly more verbose and equally infantile "git gud," but I guess I'll bite. These dread mage mobs are basically an uber powered Talassian mage - you know, that mob that people talk about being too strong on an alarmingly regular basis. These dread mage mobs are the reason nobody goes into the Spires barbarian caves. Because they're overtuned, and now they're bringing their stink somewhere else.

Our devs rock, no question asked, but maybe a players we should remember why we roleplay, and as far as I know its not to just be level 30

Again, nobody said that. Nobody said the developers were by any means bad at what they do. Nor was roleplaying besmirched, or the focus of the server implied to be on anything but roleplay. I love Arelith, and I want to see it succeed. I want the mechanics behind the amazing roleplay to be of top quality, so I post about imbalances I see, and discuss changes I'd like to see made. Is discussing the mechanics of the game Arelith stands on an inherently bad or insulting thing, like your tone seems to want to paint it as?

Sab1 wrote:As for changes, then push for changes ig. Give the devs a reason to pay attention.

Okay, but-

Most devs aren't DMs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure that between the time they devote to coding and creating areas, mobs, treating this server like a job, their own life, their own job, and the much lesser time they really spend roleplaying their characters...

I just have this feeling, and I repeat, correct me if I'm wrong, that the devs are more creatures of the forums. I think that where DMs are...well, kind of literally supposed to watch rp, they got skype, discord chats, and the forums to most easily look things over.

We don't speak up, what do they hear? What do they see? What's brought directly to their attention in private, I assume. Other than that, just...comments like this, please. The point is large quality of life changes that I'm sure many agree would imrpove things as a whole.

No ones whining and moaning, and constant shifting and changing is important to keeping the server alive. You can only put so much effort into roleplaying out a dungeon so many times over.

And to make things "happen IG," you're kind of supposed to /DM.

gilescorey wrote:

Shadofury wrote:just seemed like everything was about having a place to gain xp, but maybe i just read too much into things

My posts were about the discrepancy between dungeon quantity and quality in the Underdark and the Surface, and to stress the fact that adventuring RP becomes constrained when there is so few variety of dungeons to play in. It's interesting, and fun to go through Kholingen the first few times, but the lack of variety necessitates that I do it a great deal many times more. And whenever I play another character, I hit that same wall, again and again.

since when has it all turned into I got to level 765 before you did with my umpteenth toon

I didn't read anyone talking about how levelling speed was a competition with someone else, and really I'm a little bit confused on how you actually derived that point from any post in this thread.

Sure the Dread Mage might have been a misplaced spawn. OK not people may have to think and use tactics instead of Im level 30 and the gods kiss my booted feet, ill stomp this mage with my pinkie toe.

Moving on to your sentences about the Dread Mage, which basically end up being a slightly more verbose and equally infantile "git gud," but I guess I'll bite. These dread mage mobs are basically an uber powered Talassian mage - you know, that mob that people talk about being too strong on an alarmingly regular basis. These dread mage mobs are the reason nobody goes into the Spires barbarian caves. Because they're overtuned, and now they're bringing their stink somewhere else.

Our devs rock, no question asked, but maybe a players we should remember why we roleplay, and as far as I know its not to just be level 30

Again, nobody said that. Nobody said the developers were by any means bad at what they do. Nor was roleplaying besmirched, or the focus of the server implied to be on anything but roleplay. I love Arelith, and I want to see it succeed. I want the mechanics behind the amazing roleplay to be of top quality, so I post about imbalances I see, and discuss changes I'd like to see made. Is discussing the mechanics of the game Arelith stands on an inherently bad or insulting thing, like your tone seems to want to paint it as?

i admitted maybe i read it wrong or simply read more into it

Sab1 wrote:As for changes, then push for changes ig. Give the devs a reason to pay attention.

I don't think player-characters should be motivated by out-of-character balance concerns.

please dont tell me the journeymen were replaced with initiates


I feel like I must ask if you know what these mobs are capable of and the level range/difficulty they propose, how about get some more people to help with monster creation? I'd volunteer.

edit: For reference, the initiates are basically the same as journeymen but with elemental shield instead of acid sheath, both also full sequencer buff on max aggro range, as soon as you can see them, they buff, there is no sneaking up on them.

Hilariously high AC mages that spam horrid wilting and elemental shield?

Boy, I play loviatarite fighters just for this kinda thing!

The insta-buff sequencer thing is to simulate them being buffed just like you are. However, in this case, these spawns are horrifically unsuited. So in their usual place they're like, whatever, but this is v different.