Examine: Race/sub

[flower]

The race should be examined on distance.


Like five metres away.

My experience is, each time i had in description drow/elf and met the other, people clicked description almsot screen away, seen i am a drow (when they were elf) and simple fled or turned immedietly hostile.

The same thing with my elf walking and meeting UDers, the situation repeated. I had been forced to remove race from description to get least minimal chance to have interaction which is not running off or outright hostiling.

If race could be recognized only from short distance (which makes totally sense!), it will still leave others to figure out who you are, skipping that panic/kill automode when opening description from distance.

[Lorkas]

It is the reality in Arelith now that if you have studied enough, you can pick out subtle signs that someone is planetouched. The planetouched character can hide those signs if they train to do so, but the signs are there. If you choose to RP that your character doesn't have any such signs and then try to use that line of RP to try to make people squirm about to explain how their character knows that you are a tiefling, then I'm sorry, but you're the one that's RPing poorly.

What you're doing in that situation essentially is claiming an advantage for your character that isn't supported (i.e. the ability to hide your heritage without taking bluff). If you want to hide your heritage, you take bluff. If you don't take bluff, someone might spot signs of your heritage. You can either designate what those signs are yourself or you can let them say something like "I detected a fiendish aura about you" or something like that, but either way the reality is that something about your character serves as an indicator of their heritage.

[If Valor Were Inches]

I more like it that you can finally tell a gnome and a hin apart...because Mechanics sure as heck isnt letting you otherwise.

Lol, you really couldn't? Gnomes have monkey arms, for starters and their legs are so awkwardly modeled. Despite being my favorite race they are rendered awfully. Plus if you're familiar with the heads, they are all different from eachother. I think a dwarf lover in jealousy messed up their original perfect look. I always laugh when people mix them up, and just assume they are doing it on purpose! Nice to learn something like this.

Just like we can muffle Charisma/Dexterity stuff, it'd be neat if we could do that to subrace to show as a general race without the need to disguise, since some might want to be known as Mary without being known as Aasimar for humility reasons, against the usual spot check.

Otherwise, I'm 100% for the update. I -hated- not being able to tell sub race, it seemed something you should be able to do.

Maybe set the DC's higher for lore and spot at the worst for detecting race, but I missed this from the old days.

[ForgottenBhaal]

I for one welcome it.
No longer will there be guesswork when you break someones disguise, and they are of another race than they pose as.

[Cybernet21]

The race should be examined on distance.


Like five metres away.

My experience is, each time i had in description drow/elf and met the other, people clicked description almsot screen away, seen i am a drow (when they were elf) and simple fled or turned immedietly hostile.

The same thing with my elf walking and meeting UDers, the situation repeated. I had been forced to remove race from description to get least minimal chance to have interaction which is not running off or outright hostiling.

If race could be recognized only from short distance (which makes totally sense!), it will still leave others to figure out who you are, skipping that panic/kill automode when opening description from distance.

But if it follows the same tag as the Radiant for example it will only work on short distances because iirc Radiant Heart tag for example does not show from far away you get the "You are too far to acertain anything else on this character" (not the exact words but you know what i mean).

But i agree,if this mechanic works from really far away then yes people can abuse it

[Lorkas]

Yea, definitely a good idea to tie this into -mimic as suggested here and earlier in this thread.

[DarkDreamer]

1. Have checked, at any real distance, you can't see the char info. Need to be closer.

2. I am at least in agreement to make outsider races a higher lore/spot DC....maybe 20-30?

[Stath]

It is the reality in Arelith now-

Yes but how is right clicking someone and examining them and reading their character sheet to then discover that they are a plane touched a preferable alternative on a heavy RP server to actually interactively roleplaying with them?

[If Valor Were Inches]

It is the reality in Arelith now-

Yes but how is right clicking someone and examining them and reading their character sheet to then discover that they are a plane touched a preferable alternative on a heavy RP server to actually interactively roleplaying with them?

Because it is readable information my roleplaying should be able to use to mold my interaction. Before we could already tell an elf was an elf by their model's appearance. Now I can RP my scholar taking a more detailed look and discerning the difference.

That -is- part of the RP ability. Now I can take this information to mold my next interaction.

Add a bit of mimic and I think it will be well balanced.

[Griefmaker]

[Gnomes have monkey arms, for starters and their legs are so awkwardly modeled. ....I think a dwarf lover in jealousy messed up their original perfect look.

I suspect that the NWN gods simply realized that gnomes were in fact monkeys and the arch nemesis of all living and thus finally showed them as they were meant to be?

[Thanatosis]

It is the reality in Arelith now that if you have studied enough, you can pick out subtle signs that someone is planetouched. The planetouched character can hide those signs if they train to do so, but the signs are there. If you choose to RP that your character doesn't have any such signs and then try to use that line of RP to try to make people squirm about to explain how their character knows that you are a tiefling, then I'm sorry, but you're the one that's RPing poorly.

You can either designate what those signs are yourself or you can let them say something like "I detected a fiendish aura about you" or something like that, but either way the reality is that something about your character serves as an indicator of their heritage.

I can't even fathom how somebody could think that this is a positive thing. This is "those are drow tracks!" tier -- for a race that can be portrayed in many more ways than somebody with a "fiendish aura about them." (really, what?)

[Iceborn]

Your race is your race. It is something that in most cases should be able to be told in the glance one way or another, unless you are trying to disguise it.

At least, I am in favor for a -mimic_race command to be added that works like a disguise without the tag.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

This is a concern I still don't really understand. Why is being a tiefling, and obscuring it to the point of hiding it, integral or necessary? (Because we're really only talking about tieflings here, not aasimar).
If you rolled up a tiefling, is it because you assumed you weren't going to get called on it because your traits were a little more subtle?
Or is it just the principle that if someone right-click+examine's you, they know what you are?

Because I don't really get that principle. I don't see what it undermines or takes away.

[Cerk Evermoore]

I understand why this is tied to lore. But to an extent lore is pretty weird on it's own. Apparently your lore powers teach you secret languages like drow sign language, thieves cant and animal language. Languages that you can't really learn from reading a book.

[Aftond]

This is a concern I still don't really understand. Why is being a tiefling, and obscuring it to the point of hiding it, integral or necessary? (Because we're really only talking about tieflings here, not aasimar).
If you rolled up a tiefling, is it because you assumed you weren't going to get called on it because your traits were a little more subtle?

Let's say a tiefling looked a bit odd, and got persecuted in their life. They flee to arelith, to begin something new. This time, they take precautions to hide their features. This doesn't call for a disguise. If you poke and prod at said tiefling enough, you'll find their secret. But that means actually putting in effort, not pressing examine and getting the answer. Are all tieflings supposed to be horn/tail displaying ones having pity parties about their origins? I know I said no more comments but the thread blew up, thus needs more views.

TL;DR=It's the examine part of your question.

[BegoneThoth]

I can't wait to see people trying to come up with random excuses about how they know my character is a tiefling.

Yeah, if a tiefling has no bio, but you KNOW the are a tiefer because it says so, what do you get to say besides "I know it when I sees it!"

I guess it's on the tiefling to provide that info in their bio or just deal with people that inexplicably know because now they do.

And if you don't like it, get bluff.

[One Two Three Five]

No one else remembers that *looks* used to do this? And it was used almost entirely for *looks*-spam followed by "THIS PERSONS A TIEFLING GUYS!" and it got removed? Now I'll grant you. It was a pretty good way to know who to avoid, which I assume is what's about to happen.

'if you don't like it get bluff' is a bad answer because this absolutely should've come with a hiding-your-race-mimic update at the same time because the -disguise function is bad for a lot of minor stuff that isn't crafting a new persona

Edit: also tieflings got tagged into being a reward race because too many people were using them as super special magical half-demons with malice auras and stigmata or whatever, but now they... have that again? Enough to make their race clear when fully covered with nothing more than bard levels, a good int bonus, and/or a modest skill investment in a skill that's already pretty strong?

[BegoneThoth]

I suppose the real question is, if you are that concerned about people knowing your race, why not just take bluff?

This is what the disguise system is for.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

This is a concern I still don't really understand. Why is being a tiefling, and obscuring it to the point of hiding it, integral or necessary? (Because we're really only talking about tieflings here, not aasimar).
If you rolled up a tiefling, is it because you assumed you weren't going to get called on it because your traits were a little more subtle?

Let's say a tiefling looked a bit odd, and got persecuted in their life. They flee to arelith, to begin something new. This time, they take precautions to hide their features. This doesn't call for a disguise. If you poke and prod at said tiefling enough, you'll find their secret. But that means actually putting in effort, not pressing examine and getting the answer. Are all tieflings supposed to be horn/tail displaying ones having pity parties about their origins? I know I said no more comments but the thread blew up, thus needs more views.

TL;DR=It's the examine part of your question.

That's fair, but you also know what you're getting into as soon as select Tiefling as a subrace that this is going to be a thing.

It's only going to become more difficult to hold onto 3.0/3.5 sentimentality of tieflings as time goes by, because of how 5th Edition and other formats portray fiend-blooded characters. If you look at frwiki or other sources, tieflings are very much an immediately-recognizable race in DnD.

I do think the Lore requirement of 15 is too low, however. That's the equivalent of a level 12 character always knowing, which I don't think is steep enough.

edit: I'll echo 12345's exasperation. There's certainly tonal inconsistencies on what's trying to be achieved. There's a lot of factors that make playing planetouched a conundrum currently, and this new insta-recognize for more than half the playerbase is one of them.

[One Two Three Five]

Because not every concept that would want to hide their race would do so by pretending to be a wholly separate person? You know this. Stop asking questions where you pretend the answer hasn't been stated already.

And, as I said in the last 'just give everyone OOC descriptors of everything' thread, I think it's a bad way to move the server toward regardless.

Also, uh, given that people seem to equate this update with tiefling-spotting (which, basically, it is. Half-elves too, I guess?) it seems weird to pretend there's much else to it that's going to do much for anyone.

[Cortex]

Using my tiefling as an example, he has a very monstrous trait which he actively hides, and has often been reason for him to be shunned in how he acts in order to hide it, though he would rather be shunned for being a weirdo over people finding out about why he acts so funny. Some more context, his behavior doesn't show, signify or hint at being a tiefling, you don't need to be a tiefling to be creepy.

It'd feel very undermining to have people point out what tieflings (that go to significant lengths to hide their heritage) are because "auras" or "smells", when they could have other much more interesting venues to look go into, rather than a click and a roll any level 7 character can do.

I actually took gift of Bluff to represent that factor that he hides his heritage, too. But I'd never be able to really take any bluff without cross classing it, at which point it feels like an extra needless disadvantage.

[BegoneThoth]

Using my tiefling as an example, he has a very monstrous trait which he actively hides

You can take bluff, even if you CC it, that's 16, then you factor in your bluff gift, that's 22. Throw +bluff on all your gear, that's easily over 40.

[Cortex]

yes, another skill needed in an era where skills are in higher demand than ever before, with every gear slot with bluff no less

[One Two Three Five]

Countering a skill that's freely available to everyone and a few classes wont ever need to take more than a rank or two (wizard, bard) to spot you out with a skill that like 3 classes get isn't great.

And unless bluff starts acting like it did back in the *looks*-era, auto-disguising features semi-randomly, so you don't have to tag yourself with mimic constantly, it's still a bad option.

The speed at which members of this community went from 'not having this feature for five years/ever for newer people' to 'you're a bad RPer if you DONT want your race known to the whole server' was legendary though so good job on that, us.

[BegoneThoth]

yes, another skill needed in an era where skills are in higher demand than ever before, with every gear slot with bluff no less

If you want to disguise that bad, isn't it fair to say 'take the disguise skill?'

Or do you believe that's somehow unfair?