Arelith

NegInfinity wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:13 am Or the player could get gear with actually useful set of enchantments, and skip that one pointless chest at the end.

If the idea was to enforce specific type of enchantment mechanically, this is approach never works and is best abandoned.

Rogues, unfortunately, are quite uncommon. I think I met a single digit number of rogues (that travelled in my party) on the sever.

I was referring to carrying a second set of gear which you only equip for the purpose of breaking into boxes, and then switch back to your regular gear afterwards. It seems people think about such things in a very linear way, rather than trying to work or think around potential in-game problems or challenges.

This solution is hardly some radical or revolutionary leap of thought. I had imagined it would be fairly obvious. It even makes roleplay sense. To perform specialist tasks, we use specialist tools. Your inventory is your toolbox. You can have multiple tools for multiple jobs, and are not limited to equipping only one set of tools. We can change our gear for a reason.

Also, rogues are common. However, the majority of rogue levels are in the three-rogue dip region (which is still enough).

I know why would you want to bash an artifact chest, there are three reasons for doing that and we'll get to them in a moment. I'm going to repeat what Joe said for the sake of spreading the word and say that Arelith simply doesn't give a shit that you don't have open lock/disable trap skill invested. There are three or four chests in total, I think, that can't be bashed and you're forced to unlock them. But what I'm doing here is not necessarily good. This is adapting to the game's questionable if not poor decisions. You can have a rogue ( and that rogue if he's a greedy rogue won't bother putting many points into this skin, but just haul along a set of +2 gear ). Or you can do it yourself, assuming that you're a rogue yourself. As a bard disabling traps is not really an option, you have to pick them up - meaning more skill points, meaning cling to your artifacts, meaning we're in 2018 and this is not an option, meaning don't be a bard in the first place. This is the first reason you'd want to bash a chest, you're a bard ( and the thing is trapped, unless something was changed in EE once that trap is lifted the chest is good for the grabs for the rest of the reset ). The second reason you'd want to bash a chest is because you're just greedy, or lazy, aka me. You don't have the gear, you don't want to bother with getting the gear and since you did bother to get to this point in the first place it's entirely normal that you deserve some sort of a reward, so bashing is viable. The third reason is that you're a third-grade me who doesn't know that you don't have to be a disable trap/open lock invested character in order to get your reward without breaking the chest.
Okay, having stated the near obvious and hoping Mithreas won't see this post and inform us that the days of being self-reliant are now over:

Why do they have to be locked/trapped in the first place? Why is it pain in the Snuggybear to get any sort of a reward for doing literally anything on this server without including roleplay? From completing a level 3 dungeon, to completing a level 30 dungeon. I made a new guy yesterday and we went through some chests. Kobold mines one at the end of the dungeon, at the middle ( with the red glowing-sword kobold ) and the chest in that the crazy-gnome magician covets in the old archives. They were all empty. Not actually all of them if i'm to be entirely honest. The one in the archives had a +2 hide +2 discipline ring in it, courtesy of Scholar Midnight's script ( I think, at least. No I'm not being sarcastic this time, these random-drops are actually only worth loot you'll be getting early on ), and the second chest was the one that's always filled with coin. The one with wall of fire trap next to it in the kobold mines. Why is this still a thing? Is this how the server wants to greet new players, by playing a game of chance? If some guy didn't pass through there ten minutes ago to actually find something useful in the chest it was likely curious garbage, easily replaced by whatever you can make from the basin. Why can't I find a steel short sword in there, steel full-plate, or hell even mithril full-plate after completing the orclands citadel of screw you and everybody else mad enough to come here? I think I'd deserve a +2 full plate after going through that hell-hole. Can I get some coin, at least? Close, but no cigar. It's always empty. Why is it always empty? Bashed. Empty. But let's not get entirely dramatic. Some times it isn't empty, or bashed, and it's a good feeling when it does occur. But it's rare. And that's... fine, really. If the intention is to prevent players from getting easy-rewards. If everybody has the best stuff, the unique stuff then it isn't so unique anymore. But I think there are better ways to handle this. The least you could do is give the player some consolation prize. Something with a little "you tried" on it that isn't necessary randomly generated. I'm not the only person on this server. Finding something useless for my guy, but useful for somebody else who is ten levels bellow me is worth the trip. There are so many creative ways you can reward the player for playing the game, that's what is the point of doing dungeons is. This includes both artifact chests and your normal ones. What is the point of the chest being locked/trapped if most people can remove the trap, and if they don't they'll vex the other people who can by bashing it? The solution here is to set the DC to 55 and only allow rogues to have fun on the server. The actual solution is to find other ways to 'block' the player, or simply... not block them at all, from getting their reward. The promise of Heaven is meaningless. Hetfield wrote a song about it, Nothing else matters -So close, no matter how far. Actually the song has nothing to do with the small, but nearly impenetrable barricade between you and your reward. But the "So close, no matter how far" is right on point. Did you read this far? Tell me in the PMs what do you think about the Groundhog's day movie so that we can discuss it. I watched it the other day, being a third world country resident and all, and I have mixed feelings about it but no one to share them with.

It would be fair if you had chests that needed certain classes like a sorcerer/wizard or ranger/druid. That way everyone would have an equal chance of being screwed due to class and getting nothing. Sound good?

Nobody says bashers are alone...might have a paladin, wizard, ranger and cleric. They deserve no loot because they don't have a rogue?

Rebel4ever wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:00 pm It would be fair if you had chests that needed certain classes like a sorcerer/wizard or ranger/druid. That way everyone would have an equal chance of being screwed due to class and getting nothing. Sound good?

Nobody says bashers are alone...might have a paladin, wizard, ranger and cleric. They deserve no loot because they don't have a rogue?

Once more for emphasis.

You can break into any chest in the game with a tiny (even as little as two points in each skill - This could be cross-class) investment of disable trap and pick lock, and a second set of gear with dex/int/disable trap/open lock to change into when you need to open a box.

You do not even need a rogue dip in your build. You can reach the recover trap DC on epic chest traps with that setup and only 14 int.

If people exercised forethought, there is no legitimate reason to bash a rune-stuff chest. Ever.

Aodh Lazuli wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:17 pm Once more for emphasis.

You can break into any chest in the game with a tiny (even as little as two points in each skill - This could be cross-class) investment of disable trap and pick lock, and a second set of gear with dex/int/disable trap/open lock to change into when you need to open a box.

You do not even need a rogue dip in your build. You can reach the recover trap DC on epic chest traps with that setup and only 14 int.

If people exercised forethought, there is no legitimate reason to bash a rune-stuff chest. Ever.

What if you don't see a trap? (even with all that gear also included +search) :p

Knock + Find Traps, both of which are on items so non UMDers can use them.

I can't, hence, axe it is.

Yes, you can, they are 0 requirement items with the spells cast on them per day.

If you're a Kensai, you're flat out of luck, but you're a kensai, so you deliberately built around a class that purposefully excises chunks of vanilla content from useability in a way even not having UMD does.

In which case, you can still gear for open lock, search, and disarm trap, all of which work witb gear and one rank, because I've played and partied with people who do exactly this, and it works.

Freyason wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:08 pm

Aodh Lazuli wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:17 pm Once more for emphasis.

You can break into any chest in the game with a tiny (even as little as two points in each skill - This could be cross-class) investment of disable trap and pick lock, and a second set of gear with dex/int/disable trap/open lock to change into when you need to open a box.

You do not even need a rogue dip in your build. You can reach the recover trap DC on epic chest traps with that setup and only 14 int.

If people exercised forethought, there is no legitimate reason to bash a rune-stuff chest. Ever.

What if you don't see a trap? (even with all that gear also included +search) :p

Find traps wand.
Lens of detection.

I'm kensai, with spare set of equipment. Can open (up to 50), can't see epic traps (43 search I think?). So I just take trap damage. Not complaining about it or being kensai, just saying that's why. That's current main, all others have means of doing it so they don't have to shatter the chest.

Freyason wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:48 pm I'm kensai, with spare set of equipment. Can open (up to 50), can't see epic traps (43 search I think?). So I just take trap damage. Not complaining about it or being kensai, just saying that's why.

Search is an int skill. The same set of gear with search slapped onto it will increase your search skill by 28 (between int modifer and direct skill bonuses).

You also get a dice roll on search checks, but might have to wait a few rounds in detect mode to see it as unlike actively "used" skills, you won't get an auto 20 when checking search out of combat.

If I recall, the search DC for (most) artifact/rune-stuff chests is lower than the DC to remove it, although it is kinda difficult to check this as the rolls happen in the background, rather than appearing in the log like actively used skills.

Additionally, if you're playing a dwarf (which I assume from your "location" on your profile), then you get a +2 to search checks anyway. You should be able to see these things.

However, when you say "I bash chests because I am a kensai and therefore can't detect traps" (apologies for the paraphrase), you do realise you are making others suffer for your character building choices - without you ever interacting with those others... Right?

Aodh Lazuli wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:50 am

NegInfinity wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:13 am Or the player could get gear with actually useful set of enchantments, and skip that one pointless chest at the end.

If the idea was to enforce specific type of enchantment mechanically, this is approach never works and is best abandoned.

Rogues, unfortunately, are quite uncommon. I think I met a single digit number of rogues (that travelled in my party) on the sever.

I was referring to carrying a second set of gear which you only equip for the purpose of breaking into boxes, and then switch back to your regular gear afterwards. It seems people think about such things in a very linear way, rather than trying to work or think around potential in-game problems or challenges.

I do not see chest contents as worthwhile enough to justify the hassle of creating a second set of gear just for opening chests. Finding an enchanter is a major pain, and when your primary gear is adamantine/mithril or heavily enchanted already, starting dressup to open a damn box, is not fun.

Basically, I do not see closed box as a challenge that is worth "solving".

If you enjoy that part of the game, cool, but it is not a good idea to expect people to share the interest.

So, getting back to OP's post, if the chests were unopenable, i'd largely ignore them, without looking for a rogue, because I enjoy combat part of the game more than box opening part of it. I used to love the whole process in NWN2, but for some reason I'm not feeling it here.

Once more for emphasis.

You can break into any chest in the game with a tiny (even as little as two points in each skill - This could be cross-class) investment of disable trap and pick lock, and a second set of gear with dex/int/disable trap/open lock to change into when you need to open a box.

You do not even need a rogue dip in your build. You can reach the recover trap DC on epic chest traps with that setup and only 14 int.

If people exercised forethought, there is no legitimate reason to bash a rune-stuff chest. Ever.

Um...what?

Did they nerf epic traps?

58+ Skill to disarm an epic electric trap..
36+ Skill to disarm a deadly electric trap.

This is by default..recovery is even more difficult.
recovering trap DC = 10 + disarming DC

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Set_trap

Rebel4ever wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:29 am Um...what?

Did they nerf epic traps?

58+ Skill to disarm an epic electric trap..
36+ Skill to disarm a deadly electric trap.

This is by default..recovery is even more difficult.
recovering trap DC = 10 + disarming DC

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Set_trap

Module builders can set the search/disarm DCs on traps on chests/doors/floor to whatever they choose. The traps on loot chests are traps placed in the module, and are not traps set by players.

There are some traps in dungeons that are really quite easy to see, but have a MASSIVE DC to disable/recover.