Arelith

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:49 am**

So, with the way the changes are going when can we expect every Monster to carry a Monster Tag, and every Surfacer to carry a Surfacer Tag. Lol

But seriously, all of this seems kinda... Uncecesary? I don't really see people abusing settlement mechanics like at all for the most part, then again I don't tend to bother with it so I don't really know why this became such a big thing. Can anyone inform me what is instigating all this?

Because i'm pretty sure none of us want a return of the Surface/UD split forums of the old days.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:19 am**

Chair wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:49 am So, with the way the changes are going when can we expect every Monster to carry a Monster Tag, and every Surfacer to carry a Surfacer Tag. Lol

But seriously, all of this seems kinda... Uncecesary? I don't really see people abusing settlement mechanics like at all for the most part, then again I don't tend to bother with it so I don't really know why this became such a big thing. Can anyone inform me what is instigating all this?

Because i'm pretty sure none of us want a return of the Surface/UD split forums of the old days.

just because you cannot see it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. and this has nothing to do with split forums.

You would be surprised how often as a player, I know this person is a underdarker, but my toon doesnt so nothing can be done.

this is to enforce the choice you make when you choose Outcast. Before there was really no penalty on the surface save no boat travel. wow use the portals.

Now there are penalties for choice that are enforced.

And also it was mentioned, this creates black market RP

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:24 am**

If thats the case, all I can say is that I hope they add in Intimidate and Persuade on to the skill checks along with bluff.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:29 am**

they literally did that

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:36 am**

They did? All I heard was that they were using Bluff for it. Oh wait, i'm literally blind. Please disregard.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:51 am**

Irogron wrote: Pariah Status
-------------------
Settlement leaders can now declare a person a Pariah within their settlement.
- Revoke citizenship power now replaced with Bestow Pariah power

Pariahs penalties:
- Cannot buy/sell from pc/npc shops.
- Cannot use ship travel TO the settlement, but they can FROM
- Can only donate to the trade czar
- Loses access to settlement services (but may still vote during elections)
- Pariahs can use persuade/intimidate/disguise (DC: 40) bypass the restrictions for all but settlement storage.

Outcasts
-------------

- Outcasts suffer the same restrictions as Pariahs in EVERY surface settlement.

Please Note: If a PC wishes to have their Outcast status removed at any time they may contact the DMs explaining the surrounding RP and why they feel it should be lifted, if accepted this will only be done at the cost of receiving a Mark of Despair.

Live after the next reset.

Here's my feedback. Irongron, you are a beautiful, beautiful man.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:07 am**

A few points to remember:

-Outcast is clearly defined in game and expansively defined on the Wiki. It requires a player to confirm their choice through a second confirmation chatbox.

-Outcasts are not people who stole a loaf of bread to feed their starving puppy. They are the worst criminals/individuals known to society. They are your serial killers and other detestable sort.

-While it is not our desire to force players to roleplay certain ways, we reserve the right to enforce the consequences of choices (usually via system or NPC input). This means settlement NPCs will often react very poorly to Outcasts in their midst.

-Losing one's Outcast status is not done through suddenly deciding to be a better person. Consider the archetype of a violent death row criminal who, after their incarceration, reforms themselves and acts as a model inmate. This does not wipe away the stain of their heinous crimes. Losing one's Outcast status will require more than just a ping to the team, as there is demonstrable benefit of having the Outcast label (unfettered access to Andunor mechanically).

Please feel free to continue the discussion here, but this change is designed to ameliorate some issues the Outcast system previously encountered.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:54 am**

Question: How are Sencliff and Sibyad treated by the Pariah system?

Will a Kobold be able to buy things in the "den of villany" that is Sencliff?

Will a Goblin, with the current warning sign of "conduct your business and be gone" -sign be able to browse the wares of Sibyad bazaar?

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:12 am**

Sibayad isn't part of the settlement system, so unless it was specifically included in this update I imagine it should work just like before.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:25 pm**

Sencliff and Sibiyad are not part of the settlment system.

I'm not sure about monsters owning property in Sencliff. Will get back to you on that. But I susspect that no, they cannot own property in Sencliff.

Monsters can of course shop in Sibiyad and move though it, but they probably shoudln't be lingering openly to have chats with locals. Behind closed doors is likely alright. They cannot own property there.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:39 pm**

Monsters can own a place at the fort out in the desert thought. not sure if it's monks only?

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:42 pm**

The fort in the desert is not monks only. It's just being used that way by a player at present. I think monsters/outcasts owning rooms inside the desert for is probably OK, but probably not the fort itself (I can't imagine local human npcs/the guard npcs of the fort would be very happy with that.)

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:44 pm**

Owning property on Sencliff (not 100% sure if EVERY property, but so far what i met) requires you to be at least Greenhorn rank, thus having a pirate tattoo. If monsters cant get tattooed, they arent able to buy those properties

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:09 pm**

DM Senke wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:07 am A few points to remember:

-Outcast is clearly defined in game and expansively defined on the Wiki. It requires a player to confirm their choice through a second confirmation chatbox.

-Outcasts are not people who stole a loaf of bread to feed their starving puppy. They are the worst criminals/individuals known to society. They are your serial killers and other detestable sort.

-While it is not our desire to force players to roleplay certain ways, we reserve the right to enforce the consequences of choices (usually via system or NPC input). This means settlement NPCs will often react very poorly to Outcasts in their midst.

-Losing one's Outcast status is not done through suddenly deciding to be a better person. Consider the archetype of a violent death row criminal who, after their incarceration, reforms themselves and acts as a model inmate. This does not wipe away the stain of their heinous crimes. Losing one's Outcast status will require more than just a ping to the team, as there is demonstrable benefit of having the Outcast label (unfettered access to Andunor mechanically).

Please feel free to continue the discussion here, but this change is designed to ameliorate some issues the Outcast system previously encountered.

Not to nitpick but using the guide posted by irongron, the 'crime' could be anything as minor as being born with a cleft palate, a *family member* doing something bad, a bad omen, or just straight up being falsely accused. While some of the examples given are for sure evil (infanticide might want to be like, omitted, given server rules, dudes), some of them are less minor than people on the surface already hang out doing. Certainly not all if them are serial killers, and it seems like from examples giveb, they aren't intended to be.

Also, and this is bothering me: the change to make outcasts Arelith natives is a weird one, considering infamy, levels of a new outcast, and the fact that NPCs know you on sight but you aren't, really, famous enough for PCs to know off hand

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:11 pm**

I think the only issue is it never gets to the point where monster races feel so accepted and comfortable in those places that it becomes a place for them to chill and hang out.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:43 pm**

As far as I knew Sibayad (the actual town) was off-limits for Outcast/Monster property ownership.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10455

this is the relevant post; i think the desert fort is probably fine seeing as yall are paying for their upkeep and there's a kobold in the nearby caravan.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:46 pm**

This is my favorite change in years.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:32 pm**

What about surface characters who are evil and worthy of the Outcast status? Why do they get a pass?

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:34 pm**

Looking funny gets you put in the hole, but wearing a symbol of Bane, essentially a terrorist org I'm the islands history, doesn't? Inconsistent. This one really needed to bake longer.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:37 pm**

And players are able to make those banites pariahs if they want.

It seems like you're being unnecessarily condescending here.

Things change on the island. Adapt and play through. Who really wants an eternal static world?

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:49 pm**

Tarkus the dog wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:32 pm What about surface characters who are evil and worthy of the Outcast status?

The other part of the update literally answers your question.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:57 pm**

An outcast isn't necessarily an evil person. There's tons of evil people co-existing with the general populace in Faerun, heck, most big cities even tolerate temples of Bane and other evil gods.

What an outcast is, is someone whose reputation has been so irrevocably tarred by something that they're no longer welcome in polite society. Whether they actually committed the heinous deeds that got them thrown out or not is irrelevant, just that it's widely known that they did whatever it was.

And in gamified terms, the reason why billy necromancer the evil overlord isn't automatically a pariah is because he hasn't selected the background or applied to have it. That doesn't mean he can't be manually pariah'd all over the surface for his foul deeds.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:59 pm**

An outcast on Arelith, by its very definition, is a human or half-orc that belongs in the Underdark.

I don't see how this update is a bad thing. At all. It's not stopping you from RPing or interacting with people, it's just preventing you from lingering around for too long, unless you have the skills to fool people. Which is ideal.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:05 pm**

Mr_Rieper wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:59 pm An outcast on Arelith, by its very definition, is a human or half-orc that belongs in the Underdark.

I don't see how this update is a bad thing. At all. It's not stopping you from RPing or interacting with people, it's just preventing you from lingering around for too long, unless you have the skills to fool people. Which is ideal.

Agreed wholeheartedly.
And the changes, in my eyes, are very much needed and I appreciate them.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:12 pm**

Thanks. My question was primarily about browsing the shops as a Monster. It was explained. Thank you.

Arelith

Outcast Amnesty

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