Arelith

Xerah wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:13 pm

thimblegiant wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:05 pm But really, what would a halfling call it?

They would 100% call it the Shyr. This happens often with things in human linguistics. A specific city becomes The City. A big island is called The Island. The nearby forest is called the Woods/Forest/etc. People assume if you are close to something, you have familiarity with it and can shorthand these things to descriptive terms. This is doubly so in the case of something unnamed when it is the only one of the THING in that area. Even if it were to get a name now, people would call it by the other name for a long time.

Or it can just all be retconned to whatever.

This is true, but I wonder if it would be accurate to Arelith. Arelith doesn't just have one river. Calling it "The Shyr" specifically, rather than "The River" might work, since non-Hin would understand "Shyr" to be the name of the river, despite it just being called "the river" in Hin. As Durvayas mentioned, though, "the Shyr" sounds way too much like "The Shire". I don't mind some Tolkien flavor, but just calling it "The Shire" is a bit too much, IMO.

That said, even when geography has names in real life, they're often not really that interesting. There are about a billion lakes called "Fish Lake", or creeks called "Oak Creek". Only the hugely major things like mountain ranges, big mountains within those rangers, or large or interesting lakes/rives get interesting names.

We could also pick out something the river is known for. Good fishing, particular trees or plants that grow on the shore, some trade that depends on it (what interesting thing is shipped up and down it?).

On the other hand, since Arelith was settled in a burst, something like the Ambliss River might make sense, since the river might not have had an accepted name until then. No one had lived in Bendir Dale that long before he went tumbling in and got himself drowned, so that might have been the first notable event associated with it.

thimblegiant wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:05 pm Personally, I'm a little baffled by halfling culture in FR, especially on Arelith. Some people play them like Kender and some more like Hobbits. Are halflings fun loving, curious and almost child like, or brave and quiet homebodies?

In actuality, they could be either. In the most recent editions of Forgotten Realms, like almost all races except humans, they have been split into various subraces which behave differently and have different cultural aspects. Originally they were either Tallfellow, Stout, or Hairfoot. Nowadays they go by Lightfoot, Ghostwise, and Strongheart (which I believe now has reverted back to Stout).

By Arelith Reckoning, the Lightfoot, Ghostwise, and Strongheart varieties would be in effect. Lightfoot halflings tend to be more cheerful, outgoing, comfortable with other races. Ghostwise halflings are reclusive and nomadic, more wilderness dwellers. They do not mingle with the other races, and have some small telepathic abilities. Strongheart halflings are a little taller and more physically imposing than other hin, they really only exist in groups in the nation of Luiren. They would be more dwarf-like and the most martially inclined.

So I would probably play a Lightfoot a little more like a kender and a Strongheart a little more like a hobbit (except I wouldn't necessarily be adverse to battle or martial ability the way hobbits are - although I am sure there are Strongheart merchants and farmers and innkeepers who wouldn't know a lick about fighting). I would play a Ghostwise halfling closer to some of the gelfling from Dark Crystal or perhaps the elves from Elfquest (who let's be honest are more halfling-shaped they just have long pointed ears).

Of course there could be hin from all subcultures in Arelith, as adventurers are exceptional by definition. But Bendir Dale feels more to me like a copy of Luiren placed in Arelith, so the Bendir Dale folk feel more like Stronghearts to me. Meanwhile, the random hin that you see in Cordor or Sencliffe or the Arcane Tower would most likely be Lightfoots. I have yet to encounter many roleplaying the Ghostwise type in Arelith, but it would be cool if that could become a thing!

Subutai wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:29 pmOn the other hand, since Arelith was settled in a burst, something like the Ambliss River might make sense, since the river might not have had an accepted name until then. No one had lived in Bendir Dale that long before he went tumbling in and got himself drowned, so that might have been the first notable event associated with it.

To be honest, this is the first time that I've heard the name Ambliss. I think if there was named now (Rather than retconned), it would more likely be named after Sasha than anyone else.

Xerah wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:53 pm

Subutai wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:29 pmOn the other hand, since Arelith was settled in a burst, something like the Ambliss River might make sense, since the river might not have had an accepted name until then. No one had lived in Bendir Dale that long before he went tumbling in and got himself drowned, so that might have been the first notable event associated with it.

To be honest, this is the first time that I've heard the name Ambliss. I think if there was named now (Rather than retconned), it would more likely be named after Sasha than anyone else.

I wasn't around for either Ambliss or Sasha. Might as well name it after Sasha, if she played an important role at the time the village was starting up, or if she also drowned in the river!

She's the main priestess NPC in the city and in halfling culture, they are an extremely important person.

Xerah wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:10 pm She's the main priestess NPC in the city and in halfling culture, they are an extremely important person.

Naming a river after a living person after like 160 years of living by the river seems odd, to me. I'd think they'd have already had a name for it, unless they're renaming it.

I like where Subutai was going with the everyday names for things. I agree. That's where things start. A simple name like "oak-town" or "Snaky river" is where the name start. Then over generations the name will change. Oakstown - Ookstoon - Uksoon. Names change like language. So if people have lived near the river for long it should have a "original" name, not a descriptive name like "Wine river", "Shortleg Stream" or "middle-of-the-isle cluster creek".
That's atleast my thoughts. And how things CAN be done (easy to find examples in England) in the real world. Now, with this change happens over generations it begs the question -- what if there's longer lived races? Elves could still call the hin fort whatever it first was called, because they were alive when it happened.

RobertSolved wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:50 pm And how things CAN be done (easy to find examples in England) in the real world.

England is fantastic for this, because it has names that run the gamut. From Oxford (originally Oxenaforda, which means the same thing. "Ford in the river that oxen use", more or less), to Wessex (West Seaxe, the western Saxon kingdom), there are lots of names that are still very close to the original, mundane meaning.

Then there are places like York that have been through about a billion names (Jorvik, Eoferwic, Everwick, Eboracum, etc.), which is either the relatively mundane "Settlement of Eburos" (a town founded by a guy) to the even more mundane "Place of the Yew Trees". So it could very well just be that some Celts came upon a little patch of yew trees, built a settlement, and called it little more than "Yew Tree Town".

The River Thames is the same way, and probably just means "Dark River" or "Muddy River".

Subutai wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:39 pm

RobertSolved wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:50 pm And how things CAN be done (easy to find examples in England) in the real world.

England is fantastic for this, because it has names that run the gamut. From Oxford (originally Oxenaforda, which means the same thing. "Ford in the river that oxen use", more or less), to Wessex (West Seaxe, the western Saxon kingdom), there are lots of names that are still very close to the original, mundane meaning.

Then there are places like York that have been through about a billion names (Jorvik, Eoferwic, Everwick, Eboracum, etc.), which is either the relatively mundane "Settlement of Eburos" (a town founded by a guy) to the even more mundane "Place of the Yew Trees". So it could very well just be that some Celts came upon a little patch of yew trees, built a settlement, and called it little more than "Yew Tree Town".

The River Thames is the same way, and probably just means "Dark River" or "Muddy River".

I think we can combine this idea into some sort of historically developed name.

1.) Hin settle and it is the only river so they call it the Shyr,
2.) Ambliss comes along and gives up the ghost in the water so the Hin start calling the Ambliss Shyr, or Shyr Ambliss (not sure how the syntax of the language works)
3.) Humans come along, have no knowledge of history, no knowledge of hin language and think Ambliss must be Amble (like meander because that is the word they have that connects) and those darn Hin talk so fast they just here Ambleshyr or Shyramble.

Now you have a name that is both simple, commemorative, and doesn't sound too much like tolkien, and is in keeping with how history happens.

Xerah wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:53 pm

Subutai wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:29 pmOn the other hand, since Arelith was settled in a burst, something like the Ambliss River might make sense, since the river might not have had an accepted name until then. No one had lived in Bendir Dale that long before he went tumbling in and got himself drowned, so that might have been the first notable event associated with it.

To be honest, this is the first time that I've heard the name Ambliss. I think if there was named now (Rather than retconned), it would more likely be named after Sasha than anyone else.

These are old names that existed over hundred in-game years ago.

While I love Count *multicoloured hugs*, Sasha is always and forever present in Bendir. I think it would have to be named after another PC to share the love.

You could call it "badger river"

because feste

related to badgers, Sett River?

"Wotan's River."

The Toddle River, after the toddlers that live nearby.

Archnon wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:03 pm
3.) Humans come along, have no knowledge of history, no knowledge of hin language and think Ambliss must be Amble (like meander because that is the word they have that connects) and those darn Hin talk so fast they just hear Ambleshyr or Shyramble.

Speak those names a hundred times in really quick succession and you're eventually get to names like the Amber or the Shamble

DM GrumpyCat wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:15 pm

Xerah wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:46 pm shyr is the halfling word for river that could be used in a name.

Like, just call it the Shyr if it is the only river nearby, I could see that being a thing.

Better yet the Shyr River

I second this name!

I would call it Pebblestream... because... because it is an endless stream of pebbles!

If anything the river itself would be called Bendir,

The village would be called Bendirshire or some other name, as the name as always been "Bendir" Village, "Bendir" Fort, which normally indicates that these things belong to Bendir, and it being the main body of water it would be the name of the region.

I like this Diilicious fella.

Subutai wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:48 pm What about Bendir River, River Bendir, Bendir Shyr, Shyr Bendir (whatever ordering Hin uses). If Bendir is in a dale (a valley) it would make sense that the river would go through the dale. Bendir Dale is so named because it's the valley that River Bendir goes through, or vice versa.

Diilicious wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:23 pm If anything the river itself would be called Bendir,

The village would be called Bendirshire or some other name, as the name as always been "Bendir" Village, "Bendir" Fort, which normally indicates that these things belong to Bendir, and it being the main body of water it would be the name of the region.

Shyr River?

Forest time that comes to mind... Rural Juror.

Rivery McRiverface.

But if the popular vote is denied, Shyr seems cool.

...Or whatever Rivery McRiverface is in halfling!

Subutai wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:48 pm I'm not sure on a good name, having not played a halfling, but I'd like to make a bit of a point in favor of a simple name. The charm of Bendir, every time I pass through, is the rural, idyllic look. Much moreso than any other settlement on the server, it has the look of a place folks would want to go for a quiet, simple life. It might not always be so, and halflings are certainly known for being daring and adventuresome, but I feel a nice name like "The Shyr", or naming it after some local common usage for it (what might halflings ship up and down on the river, or what kind of agricultural activity might it be known for? ) would really fit well with the peaceful names like "Bendir Dale".

Last minute idea: What about Bendir River, River Bendir, Bendir Shyr, Shyr Bendir (whatever ordering Hin uses). If Bendir is in a dale (a valley) it would make sense that the river would go through the dale. Bendir Dale is so named because it's the valley that River Bendir goes through, or vice versa.

Just posted to say this, if Bendir Dale is a valley the primary river being named Bendir would be very fitting.

"Have we reached the Crystal Caves yet" River

Crystal River?

Love it

Muddy Run

Why?

Because off all the Dirtytoes.

*cue cymbal hit*