Arelith

I'm hearing today there are Greater Ruin single use rods. Can we get a confirm here?

Also getting confirms that Word of Faith rods exist - 6 uses per rod.

Edit: Rod of Greater Ruin confirmed

TimeAdept wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:36 am
Edit: Rod of Greater Ruin confirmed

won't this cause massive backbite damage to anyone who doesn't have ESF: Evo? (I.E. the mundanes these rods are supposed to be bandaging)

NauVaseline wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:45 am

TimeAdept wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:36 am
Edit: Rod of Greater Ruin confirmed

won't this cause massive backbite damage to anyone who doesn't have ESF: Evo? (I.E. the mundanes these rods are supposed to be bandaging)

It's not supposed to be used by anyone but mages. *wink wink*

Szaren wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:57 am It's not supposed to be used by anyone but mages. *wink wink*

i mean, that rod is pretty dope. but only for a caster. that could outright kill some other users and leave others who use it disadvantaged

NauVaseline wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:45 amwon't this cause massive backbite damage to anyone who doesn't have ESF: Evo? (I.E. the mundanes these rods are supposed to be bandaging)

this one mostly just seems to be a neat addition

doesn't that make the taking the "feat epic spell greater ruin" pretty useless and a waste of a feat?
why an epic spell on a rod.. ? what the?

Seekeepeek wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:17 am doesn't that make the taking the "feat epic spell greater ruin" pretty useless and a waste of a feat?
why an epic spell on a rod.. ? what the?

Not useless, you'd theoretically be able to cast it 2x in a row. it's actually pretty good... if your class can already cast greater ruin and you've ESF: Evo

Kuma wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:05 am this one mostly just seems to be a neat addition

yea

NauVaseline wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:18 am

Seekeepeek wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:17 am doesn't that make the taking the "feat epic spell greater ruin" pretty useless and a waste of a feat?
why an epic spell on a rod.. ? what the?

Not useless, you'd theoretically be able to cast it 2x in a row. it's actually pretty good... if your class can already cast greater ruin

but can't you do that with two rods?

So it didnt make sense that mundanes could use 9th through umd, as some argued.

But now /anyone/ can cast an epic spell, without 0 investment beside getting the Rod?

Is this the part where both sides of the argument join together and shake hands that this update is extremely bizarre?

Aftond wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:25 am So it didnt make sense that mundanes could use 9th through umd, as some argued.

But now /anyone/ can cast an epic spell, without 0 investment beside getting the Rod?

Is this the part where both sides of the argument join together and shake hands that this update is extremely bizarre?

The difference here is that casting from scrolls or wands requires some magical knowledge to read and utilise the spell. The rods are powerful artifacts that hold such effects and thus do not require knowledge of magic. The biggest difference is availability, scrolls are very easy and common to obtain powerful artifacts are much rarer and unlikely to flood shops constantly.

Restless Dragon wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:33 am

Aftond wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:25 am So it didnt make sense that mundanes could use 9th through umd, as some argued.

But now /anyone/ can cast an epic spell, without 0 investment beside getting the Rod?

Is this the part where both sides of the argument join together and shake hands that this update is extremely bizarre?

The difference here is that casting from scrolls or wands requires some magical knowledge to read and utilise the spell. The rods are powerful artifacts that hold such effects and thus do not require knowledge of magic. The biggest difference is availability, scrolls are very easy and common to obtain powerful artifacts are much rarer and unlikely to flood shops constantly.

is there rods for all the epic spells then? i really wound'nt pick the feat greater ruin.. if there is a rod for it.. and pick dragon knight in it's place if there isn't a rod.

You should build however you wish your character to develop. I would trust your character has a direction and story to tell so build accordingly to this. Any rare items should likely not be things to build around but instead embraced if/when found instead.

Afraid no spoilers from me on what may or may not exist.

Restless Dragon wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:50 am You should build however you wish your character to develop. I would trust your character has a direction and story to tell so build accordingly to this. Any rare items should likely not be things to build around but instead embraced if/when found instead.

Afraid no spoilers from me on what may or may not exist.

okay. i guess i have to consider if i want to play Eragon or Superman on Arelith.

I guess whatever lucky evo mage that gets their hands on 3 or more of those gets to enjoy a free win in their pocket.

1. Evocation spells are still useful even with biteback. The biteback makes them a risk, but when the spells are used properly, that risk is mitigated. If the opponent is dead, your own hit point total does not matter. This was the intended design paradigm, as I explained to Irongron when I implemented these changes to epic spells.

The trade off for taking an evocation feat, generally, is that when put in a position where that risk is unacceptable, you are down a feat the entire fight. This is a long term, strategic risk. Obviously, that risk does not exist with rods, and I have no idea why epic spells have been added as consumables.

2. The notion has been raised here that rods are more "immersive". Wands and Scrolls are magical items that require training, whereas Rods do not.

I assume this notion attempts to appeal to the PnP understanding of rods as activated items. Which is all well and good, except rods in PnP do not cast standard spells, and items that do tend to require a UMD check just like Wands and Scrolls.

Even setting aside the issue with strict adherence to PnP in a video game, this is a nonsense argument intended to muddle the discussion (i.e. it's illogical and inconsistent). Nothing more.

3. If rods are intended to be rare, then how does that solve the current imbalance between casters and mundanes?

Rare items, if they are powerful, will absolutely be planned for. And then grinded until obtained, along with an ever increasing large list of items to grind gold and loot chests for.

Wow. Just wow. I have no words.

I need to make a separate post about this.



Gentlemen, this is a level 30 spell on a standard loot item. A level. 30. Spell.

Look. Anecdote time. I once managed a 40th level action-PvP server with a magic level much higher than Arelith's. Hellball there worked the same as it did here. The concept of Hellball consumables was raised as part of an epic dungeon loot, and we refused to add it, because it is just that good.

140 damage. AoE. Knockdown. Chainable into melee attacks.

I can't even. I don't. I have no words.

To whichever developer was responsible for this update, please seek out expert help before committing updates in the future. Updates like these are extremely damaging.

Oh my god.

This update isn't real.

EDIT: And I was ninja'd by Peppermint. Still gonna keep the post up.

Well, a hellball rod was found today too. So I guess Arelith is going to turn into cold war server, with each faction stockpiling a pile of WMD rods to both cause and prevent MAD.

On a bit more serious note, I too was expecting rods to be custom effects, to have tools for the mundanes which are replaceable, but different from what magi can do. Now, however, we're opening up avenues of evocation wizards becoming even more oppressive, letting them have multiple castings of the same RAW Epic Spell. Unless there is a cooldown stuck, which is shared both through rods and Epic Spell itself, this is going to be, quite literally, MAD. Even if that is done, nothing stops just having 5 people each hold a Hellball/Gruin Rod and point it at the same spot for quite literally a blast-off.

rods of epic magic are a

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

bad idea

So disjunction scrolls are a no no for meele PCs, but, epic magic is okay?

Does anyone see a world in where these epic magic wands are not farmed harder then adamantine ever was?

I admit after the update I didn’t think things could be broken further. Really hope this is not true.

is this clown world

Restless Dragon wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:50 am You should build however you wish your character to develop. I would trust your character has a direction and story to tell so build accordingly to this. Any rare items should likely not be things to build around but instead embraced if/when found instead.

Afraid no spoilers from me on what may or may not exist.

my character after finding that his years - aoens of understanding of the arcane - having found a cheap and consumable version of his life's work replicating the horrifying hellweapons of old netheril

that he would delevel and get rid of his hellball feat for an esf and keep his ESF:evocation feats so he could collect upwards of 30 hellball wands with all of his newly acquired search and treasure finding skills and keep his enemies pinned down indefinitely until they die with saveless knockdowns and massive damage

its deep

"We don't want fighters to have access to high level magic, so we're going to give them all Greater Ruin and Hellballs instead."

I can't stop laughing. What is this even.

Jesus. Wow. Time for breakfast. I'm out.

These rods will be used by mages most often, with ESF evocation they can bypass the backlash, thus a mage can now, Hit you with a hellball, then hit you with another, then stop time, hit you with another, then cast his own hellball if he has enough rods for that.

And incase you survive all this, you eat a rod of G-ruin to the face.

If these rods are actually in the mod, they allows meele PCs, like wm to use the rod in combat to insta knock opponents down, do shit ton of damage, and have a round to kill them as they are flat footed.

And as it’s easier to grind chests, then say adamantine deposits, these will sooner or later be in widespread circulation. What can be farmed, will be farmed if it is powerful enough.

Really hope this is a bad joke.