Plane touched templates; updates on them.

[cowboy]

They are templates on Arelith;

Dwarves, Elves, Half-orcs, Humans, Half-Elves - but not gnomes or halflings have the ability to apply:

Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Tiefling, and Aasimar as templates.

Some time ago they decided to do this for everyone except the small races and it was never really addressed as to why. While this diverts from the lore I don't really find it problematic as each of those races have their own versions, some of which you just described.

[the grim yeeter]

If the medium-sized base races can be tiefling, aasimar or genasi, then why would the small-sized base races not be able to? Because they have not been given a fancy name in the books like fey'ri, tanarukk, maeluth and wisplings (oh hey, turns out halfling tieflings dp have a name, too!) have? A small-sized base race can be planetouched just fine.

[Cataclysm of Iron]

I know we don't play P&P here so comparisons are a little moot anyway, but worth bearing in mind that despite the general perceptions of tieflings (especially) and aasimar as basically normal people with edgelord traits and fancy physical differences (which comes from D&D 5e), Arelith is much more closely rooted in the lore and setting of 3e, where planetouched were extremely rare, a lot more rooted in their planar origins (including in terms of alignment), and their planar traits were a lot more subtle and understated, so sources are never going to be conclusive with one another nor fully applicable to us here.

All of which is separate to the point that, in any case, planetouched being unrestricted in terms of their alignment isn't good for server integrity because they only add to the setting if they are strange and have limitations and oddities outside of normal folks. If they're just normal people with no personality derivations or character traits from their background, just edgy horns and convenient stat buffs, they're a net negative to most people's play.

[garrbear758]

1. This is a PW, not PnP. Things that work in PnP don't necessarily translate well to a world with 100s of PCs.

2. The link cowboy posted of FR lore literally says aasimar are usually good and fight against evil. It also says enough tieflings are evil to create the prejudice, which you can easily infer means the majority are evil. So, as a counterargument, they both skew towards good / evil, and nothing says that they are commonly of the other alignment. They can both be neutral already if you don't want to play strictly to their usual alignment.

3. If a 5% allowed you to be also be good on a normally evil race (and vice versa), we would also have good rakshasa, vampires, ogres, and minotaurs. I don't think I need to explain why that's a bad idea.

[Nitro]

I think a good tiefling and a good vampire are so vastly different that it's not a remotely comparative subject.

[cowboy]

1. This is a PW, not PnP. Things that work in PnP don't necessarily translate well to a world with 100s of PCs.

2. The link cowboy posted of FR lore literally says aasimar are usually good and fight against evil. It also says enough tieflings are evil to create the prejudice, which you can easily infer means the majority are evil. So, as a counterargument, they both skew towards good / evil, and nothing says that they are commonly of the other alignment. They can both be neutral already if you don't want to play strictly to their usual alignment.

3. If a 5% allowed you to be also be good on a normally evil race (and vice versa), we would also have good rakshasa, vampires, ogres, and minotaurs. I don't think I need to explain why that's a bad idea.

1. It isn't PnP and things can be adapted. Why is that the server already has it to where players can play evil aligned monsterous races that could be insanely disruptive but are not numerous and they're only a normal award. I could right now go and make a LG Drow Paladin of Ilmater, something which is even rarer than a good aligned tiefling or an evil aligned aasimar.

2. The links I posted both are worded to give you a theme of their race. They are not alignment restricted in PnP, and their dialogue and writeup clearly says while both might fall into the typical "haha tiefling man evil" and "aasimar man good" it is possible for both not to be. This doesn't mean neutral alone.

3. Is not what I am asking for. I am asking that tiefling and aasimar be allowed for the full spectrum because that isn't unreasonable of a request.

Firstly because aasimar and tiefling are /plane touched/, they're not full fledged fiendlings or angels. They are people who may not even have ancestors of the evil or good powers but may even just be favored by them. They're basically race + flavor.

Something asking to be a good aligned rakhasa, vampire, etc - while completely probable (its a world of mystery and magic) are astronomically different. If you're clinging to me talking about them being a 5% they're a different category in their "weirdness" and "rarity".

A Minotaur is a creature born of ancient evil, the plan of Baphomat, and effectively demon spawn. They are programmed to work in a specific way.

A vampire is programmed similarly, even vampires who begin good, eventually become evil due to their malignant animus.

A tiefling or an aasimar is born and largely it is society / life / their own morals which determine their alignment.

[the grim yeeter]

It's amazing how people once more manage to make something entirely different out of what OP originally proposed.

2. The link cowboy posted of FR lore literally says aasimar are usually good and fight against evil. It also says enough tieflings are evil to create the prejudice, which you can easily infer means the majority are evil. So, as a counterargument, they both skew towards good / evil, and nothing says that they are commonly of the other alignment.

Yes. We all know that. And I'm faaaiiirly certain OP already read that before linking those sources as well. I will just quote myself as a response:

[...], but really, good-aligned tieflings and evil-aligned aasimar will be so rare (5%s are rare, and 5%s spent on an evil-aligned aasimar or a good-aligned tiefling will be even rarer) [...]

It would not be strange at all if there was a good-aligned tiefling or two on the island. Especially considering the prevalence of much rarer PCs and NPCs on the island.

3. If a 5% allowed you to be also be good on a normally evil race (and vice versa), we would also have good rakshasa, vampires, ogres, and minotaurs. I don't think I need to explain why that's a bad idea.

How do you even compare tieflings and aasimar to all these races you're mentioning? The difference is like night and day.

[cowboy]

I'd like to request a lock on this thread. It seems to tickle everyone's chromosomes in the wrong way.

[Opustus]

Can we change the conversation? I don't think the mathematical rarity discussion is going anywhere soon; regardless of what the odds are, how canon should be treated in terms of chances translated to Arelith etc. it ultimately boils down to what the devs think is appropriate or inappropriate as a representation of race and how frequent it ought to be across either Surface and Underdark or either Surface or Underdark.

What about the reason "I want to play an evil aasimar / I want to play a good tiefling"; can this be argued WITHOUT the rarity principle? Would it make the race less influential as a force of evil or grey in the world? Would a tiefling who volunteers at a homeless shelter for the warm feeling of empathy and doing good grate on people's sensibilities? Do we want to avoid people who play unique characters, because we find it to be in poor taste?

[The GrumpyCat]

The idea of plane touched halflings/gnomes is cool. I like that and will keep it in mind as an option going forward. I really don't see why not.

As for removing alignment restrictions..

See in a way I kinda like the idea. But as many other posters have said, it would need to be kept rare to the utter extreme.

My main concern is we have already had enough tieflings playing the 'you're all so racist against me!' that actually adding the possiblity that they could be good is already putting fuel on the fire. Maybe one day, if they're made a Greater award rather than major, I may perhaps consider a 'with application' option for a 5% good tiefling/evil aasimar. Maybe. Perhaps. If the application was REALLY good and the player was a 30/40 rpr material. But on the whole, at least for now, this is a definate. 'No.'

Locking the thread on request of the initial poster.