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Re: New Subdual Update
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 11:26 pm
by Drowboy
The Rambling Midget wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 10:46 pm
The GrumpyCat wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 12:10 pmIf this does become as said - a chaotic warzone where pvp doesn't matter cos 'lol it's only subdual' then I assure you, it will be removed.
I think it would make more sense to remove the offenders, rather than the system. That's kind of a big red "I don't care about RP at all" flag.
This seems like the better option with almost all systems hit hard over a few people being jerks, tbh.
Re: New Subdual Update
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 12:49 am
by Aelryn Bloodmoon
Seven Sons of Sin wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 4:18 pm
Take it more seriously than "grievous assault."
Pretend you are beating someone so badly there is a high probability they could die from their wounds (unlikely due to Arelith and plethora of healing magic and divine aid but still).
This is Obi Wan leaving Anakin to (presumably) die on Mustafar.
The mechanics of this subdual mode is not to "knock them unconscious" it is put them into a state of inaction and near death. You are simply refusing to strike a killing blow. We are not dealing with nonlethal hitpoints or any other abstraction.
Whether you crit for 200 in subdual mode or not, you are still critting for 200 Hit Points. The only thing this effects is the outcome of your target who has 190 HP.
Lets not pretend there is no great deal of violence here, because there is. This is not "tavern brawl subdual mode" , this is "I wont kill you but I wont save you batman subsual mode."
This is beautifully put. Can we put this or some summarized version of this as a system text message to a player each time they turn on subdual mode and each time they log in with it turned on? Also maybe on the wiki?
Also, I am now more concerned with whether or not this works on partymates, because for some AoE casters in the chaos of PvP (edit: and even PvE) this is invariably going to result in awkward situations - nipping the possibility in the bud prevents the need to punish the whole for heat of the moment decisions; it's hard to fault someone for going fireball fireball fireball to end the fight, when they
know their fireball
won't kill their teammate and they're stuck between "my immersion" and "my playmate's fun cost for dying when I could have saved them." <Admittedly, I'm looking dubiously at my own 9 wisdom true flame in my head while I type this>
Re: New Subdual Update
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 1:32 am
by AstralUniverse
Seven Sons of Sin wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 4:18 pm
This is Obi Wan leaving Anakin to (presumably) die on Mustafar.
Its very good way to put it.
Your actions are not any less 'pvp' when in subdual. Only the outcome is different mechanically. IC, its still pvp like any pvp. Your character may try to hurt but not kill, but they dont forsee the future, they dont know the outcome of the fight and thus, IC it has the same gravity as any normal pvp.
Re: New Subdual Update
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 3:48 am
by Dr. B
I will not say a single word to naysay this change. Well done, and long overdue.
Re: New Subdual Update
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 5:43 am
by Archon
Does -subdual stick over server resets, or is it toggleable upon each pvp encounter only?
I like the new broadened subdual a lot as valid option.
Re: New Subdual Update
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 11:53 am
by The GrumpyCat
Keep in mind that the rp onus here isn't just on those -using- subdual, but those who are victim to it, and those who see it.
I think before making more changes and such, we need to let it settle in and see how it works, see how people treat it. If we're lucky everyone will treat it for what it is. But yes, if we get people being dumb a message may need to be put up.
Re: New Subdual Update
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:21 pm
by Inf
Archon wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 5:43 am
Does -subdual stick over server resets, or is it toggleable upon each pvp encounter only?
I like the new broadened subdual a lot as valid option.
Not yet. I intend to make this the case though.