Arelith

I've got a few characters that were (or are) long term, or were active for longer than a year

Spike Dy'ner - Was my first character. One of the rangers of the Grove.
Ryang - Just over a year playing him? A spaced-out sorcerer of Light Keep
Terry - I forgot Terry. He was around for a long time as the Towers resident artifacter.
Mifune - Was old as dirt. I made him back in like 2009 and rolled him early this year. A wandering martial artist of Helm.
Sei - Current main

With the exception of Spike (He was kind of a Pufferfish) all of these characters found, in their own way, means of interacting with just about everyone they came into contact with in a non-hostile, pvp-ish manner. Ryang had his small medical clinic and treated everyone. Mifune tried finding subtle ways to help people and/or turn them away from evil. Sei...is just insane. Terry was a "morally ambigious researcher", which fit well with the Tower roleplay at the time.

Characters that were more inclusive, such as Null, typically didn't hold my interest as long. The number of people I could interact with was smaller, and their rp concepts were a good deal less flexible and tolerant of people that didn't align with their ideals.

I haven't been around that long. Like a year and a half according to the server. In that time I have had two characters get into epics and I am going to shelve the second one now. Each lasted about nine months and to be perfectly honest with my scattered play time it took me that long to get to those levels (24 and 28) for the record. Sometimes it takes a while to level up though and I can respect not getting rid of that investment. Especially if you are new to the game and there is a big learning curve.

Jhael'dra is my first and only character I do have with 1160+ hours (not sure if it's already considered as Long Running). Why I keep playing her despite of having multiple opportunities to roll her and try something else? Because I do enjoy playing her and once I feel like her potential has been depleted. I will try to make some dramatic events which would change the character and put on another layer for her and if not, shelve her and try to make some other character or move to other games to RP in.

For now, despite all what happened and what will happen in a future, I simply enjoy playing her. I like her character and her cold-hearted expression. Why I like her so much? Because I builded her from the ground up. From the mere homeless wanderer of Andunor streets to becoming Yath'abban, going through her ascension to become priestess of Lolth, then becoming councillor and ruthless politician people like, or dislike (which is how it works in politics but there is no such a thing as negative popularity) and even reached the point to where she challenged the position of First Daughter of her awesome drow house. She was not successful in the last part.... but she will find a way to reach for what she wants in one way or another!

I just wish that more people would experience the amazing journey of their character development "from zero to hero" through awesome roleplaying and immersive experience, while meeting dozens of other characters and provide their players with RP content and becoming part of their stories. Rather than just grind character to level 30 while not involving them in RP and then starts thinking about character's purpouse and goals after reaching max level.

RP is not only about your own immersion, but about the journey and your ability to create content for others. So even when I feel down I still feel this specific responsibility to make content for others. And that is ultimately what is powering my motivation.

I have several- I believe that in an RP environment, especially one that's based on or simulates a tabletop experience, that you need a mixture of long-running characters and newer ones. The longer-running characters become a source of knowledge and experience, as well as providing a sense of stability to the world, while the newer characters introduce new ideas, resources, and conflicts to shake things up.

Both things are necessary for a compelling narrative, IMO- most shows and stories don't change the entire cast of main characters every episode/chapter - even American Horror Story completes a season before they change characters completely. Harry Potter wouldn't have been the same if year two had been a completely different cast, nor would Avatar: The Last Airbender, or any other recurring series.

I play longer-running characters because in my experience I find such narratives to be more enjoyable for myself, and I feel much more competent in the long-view approach of most of my characters' actions in the world than I do taking a short-term view. This also lends itself to me playing elves; here on Arelith, where the server has been running for more than a decade, this lends itself to me taking an actual long-term investment my setting, where my elven characters can operate with plans based on decades (years) rather than years (months).

Given that I'm part of a 7 year running table-top campaign with a group of 7 friends, it slots right into my comfort zone, too.

Finally- being perfectly blunt, I hate the leveling process. I don't die a whole ton when I go crawling - and nowadays even if I did, the death penalties are insignificant enough to not matter. But I work 50 hours a week. I have fun killing monsters, but Arelith is full of so many people to interact with that unless I'm willing to blatantly ignore everything going on around me, by the time I hit level 10, making it out of whatever hub of RP my character is tied to to go kill things is basically a miracle, and if said miracle looks possible, unless I feel like running out to solo somewhere (which I can do but isn't as fun) it usually takes at least another hour to gather up a group.

Yes. I'm aware it's perfectly possible to hit 30 in a ridiculously short (relative to my play-style) amount of time - I believe someone once quoted 2 weeks. I, on the other hand, have yet to hit level 30 with either of my highest level characters, both whom have been played years, when I do have time to play- and I've been playing one of them since 2014.

Edit: Note that between them they were archmage, and commander(twice). Neither character was without impact or influence, despite not hitting 30. Which is all the more reason I find making it to 30 to be practically impossible- compared to the things you can achieve IC, going out to slay fiends again almost seems boring.

For players with my time constraints, a % chance at ANY level of gift equals ZERO incentive to ever roll said characters, until the moment I determine there is a fitting end to their story, because I'm looking at a % chance to get nothing satisfying otherwise in exchange for years of investment (and the loss of ability to play that character whose RP I have enjoyed).

Even if I am relatively new to Arelith I actually have a long-running character. Elvanshalee was created in 2015 in the Menzoberranzan of a MUD (a multiplayer text-based game), and pretty much had her adventures there for a few RL years, even though I played many other alts along with her. For instance I had 3 other drow characters there, but she was the one I had most affection for, as she was the spiritual successor of a drow character I had created about 10 years earlier in another text-based game. Also, to be clear, Elvanshalee is not -exactly- the same Elvanshalee from that game, I play Arelith Elvanshalee as a what if version, in other words what would have happened to her if she had left Menzo and went to Andunor instead.

The reason why I continue playing her and I recreated her on Arelith is not particularly complex, and it can be summarized in these words: because I feel she has still a story to tell. In her previous incarnation I was forced to end that story because drow rp died off and thus she had ended up sitting alone for RL hours or even days, she deserved better than to disappear in such oblivion. And I was quite right in thinking so, from what I saw she achieved in Arelith and also the comments and thanks I had from others who roleplayed with her, but most importantly for the great fun I have had myself in the first place. (And a big shout-out and thanks to Royal Blood and all others who truly let her story shine).

Now, I will however recognize that Arelith may be a different environment, where characters last RL months at best, and not RL years. The oldest character I met in Andunor was 4 RL years old, from what the player told me, a true youngester compared to the 12+ year old characters that were in the game Elvan comes from. The matter is that in my opinion it is difficult to mediate between the freedom and new narratives that are created from characters retiring, in whatever way whether sacrifice or shelving, and the narratives that are interrupted and stopped by that same phenomenon. Vice versa characters retiring quickly can simply not have the time to develop long-arching narratives, especially narratives that involve players who have little time to dedicate to the server, and characters who live for too long, or more properly who hold a central position for too long, will stifle the creativity of others, or prevent them to shine.

For the most part I handled this with two methods:
a) Alting: having at least one or two alternate characters to play is something I deem extremely healthy. It prevents one from getting too involved and too close to the character they play, which is truly a bad thing. As Royal Blood, again, wisely mentioned the failure of a character is not necessarily the failure of a player. But one needs a bit of detachment from the character to be able to do that, and I feel multi-alting greatly helps (within reason, altaholism is on the contrary quite bad).
b) Keeping a position on the sidelines, or otherwise not keeping a central position for too long: this is bad both for the environment, everybody should have a chance to shine, but also for ourselves, it can be stressing to hold such a position for too long. My convinction is that a feature of a good player is to be able both to have their character enter the scene and leave it at the right moment, like the characters of theatre plays. What happens to the character after that does not matter so much for me, but it is important that one strives to eventually leave the spotlight to others.

But ultimately I see Elvanshalee, and other similar characters I had, as old friends to whom I go back when I want to exchange a word or remember the good old times, friends I know well, and that I am always keen to catch up with to tell of what happened to me while we were away from each other and hear what they did themselves. This also means that while I keep to these characters for a long time, I have taken breaks from playing them, even by playing different games entirely, in other words sometimes you can have too much of a good thing.

And this is why I always try to create or develop new character concepts based on the environment I find wherever I go. As much as old friends are important it is also important to always remain able to meet new people, that is to create new characters in my simile here. While being able to see situations and events through the eyes of these old friends, I find at the same time great merit in doing the same through the eyes of fresh new acquaintances.

But to conclude my post and to answer to Grumpycat eventually: I think the two questions are not so linked as you make them seem. One can perfectly keep playing an old character and also try and discover new characters. That's how I personally like to play at least.

Party in the forest at midnight, Archon and Wordless Truth have pretty much expressed my own opinions on it more eloquently than I ever could myself, so I suppose-- Ditto.

I've played multiple long term characters. I agree a lot with what KT28 said.

The only thing that I will add to what KT28 said, is I often ask "Is my character holding a position that is denying others the same?"

Ie, am I the Archdruid of the Grove, thus no one else can be? Am I the Coronal of Myon, the Archmage of the Tower, whatever. Some limited position where only a few (or one) can hold. Does my holding it for an extended period hold others back? Are there others who actually want the position?

These questions weigh on my decisions as well.

I hold onto my characters for a long time. I really immerse myself in them, each one feeling like their own unique living person that exists inside my head.

I feel that's an important element of roleplay you need in a persistent world. Persistent characters.
It makes death more impactful too, when someone you feel as if you knew is sudduenly gone from the world .. leaving a void, as opposed to someone who basically just arrived. The difference between a redshirt dying, or one of the main characters dying.

I'd be more willing to roll my characters if meaningful deaths presented themselves, but it's just very rare and I worry that it would be totally overlooked or not contribute meaningfully to any story/plot.

Additionally, the guaranteed reward for deleting a long running character is a normal reward, and I don't feel like there's any value in it. It's such a poor reward for me, I have spent my last 4 normal rewards on a minor reward (noble) without having even realised until now that I was downgrading it... and after finding out, didn't care.

So far the same character for three years near-on, and It's just comfortable.

I know how the character is meant to act, how the talk, their mannerisms, their background, they feel more fleshed out and have a lot of things they can do.

That's not to say I dont like Alts, heck I have about eight or nine other characters in my Vault and had one that hit 24 before rolling him. But they take far more effort and often end up being less fun to play than my main character.

But for me it's also about, how the characters can help others with their stories, or push people to do more and have their own plots and moments. Think more like Gandalf being a supporting role instead of a main character in LOTR and the Hobbit.

It comes down to three main things.

Comfort of play - What's more comfortable to slip into the mannerisms and vocal of? eg how well do you know and play a new character of yours.

Stories and actions - Do you have stories ongoing, do others around your character do, What's going to be the most fun for yourself and others to be involved with?

Time and Value - Would I enjoy logging onto a character with more social presence (Like my main) and spending time RPing? Or on an Alt and going to do writs and dungeons and the.. rp you can do whilst grinding.

I prefer the old, but a new character is fun as a side deal!

It's as simple as enjoyment for me. I adore playing Anakhsun, probably too much, and much to the chagrin of others. I tend to have one main character, and I'll continue to play that character until I find another alt I can get stuck into, like the transition from my former character Jihael then to my slave Nhil. I'm not really bothered with rolling awards or anything, as long as people continue to enjoy Ana then I'll continue to enjoy her until I find another alt concept that I and others can have some fun with.

Played a character for a few years. People seemed to enjoy them, and I enjoyed Jace too. I enjoy playing characters with a lot of history, and knowledge of the server's history. I usually went out of my way to make sure my older character never blocked any newer character's spot, but aside from that it was just how it was.

Having said that, I've taken breaks from that character to play others, and probably should have taken that as a sign they should be rolled. But I always came back. It's hard to quantify this and I'm sorry for that, but to truly immerse yourself in your character's story is one of, if not the most, enjoyable aspects of this server and I find it a lot easier to do when the shoe fits.

I don't always know how healthy it was to get that immersed though. I consider myself lucky, and probably not the norm, to have had so many good experiences and so few bad ones.

Hope that helps a bit, Grumpy.

Bet no one's surprised to see the player of Angela Amana here.

Angela's been around since the creation of the True Flame path, back in november of 2011. She started as an alt to do some amusing twin roleplay with my roommate. He got bored with Annelique. I didn't get bored with mine. She had a very thrilling beginning, in fact, with a prejudiced half-orc who hated all elves, and didn't distinguish between half-elves and elves. It gave me a great incentive to get to where I could Fireball someone, and the player and I had a great laugh over him standing at the end of a pier scared out of his wits by the woman he'd harrassed for a week straight.

Why is that memory relevant? It's one of hundreds, thousands even. Angela hasn't been a constant character, but I've never gone more than six months without playing her, and she eventually became my main. I had no idea what she was to begin with. She didn't start out as a noble, as wizard-taught, as.... anything. That stuff came out as people asked about getting to know her, and I came up with things on the spot. Now she's got a family, played by other players, and in addition to having a history of her own, she's lived through a great deal of the server's history, at least since the late sixties.

She got stale, for a while, and that came out as her being cold, even ruthless, determined to get her way, and to hell with anyone who hurt her and hers. I can look back now and say I didn't enjoy playing her all that much at this time, and even let go of the Tower intentionally, to see who came along and did something with it. This was the period of the Halruaan council, Archmage Elise Davontis, and later, the Circle guild.

A lot of the enemies she's had came from this period... Then. Jacob Swift came back, and breathed new life into this character. He made her fun to play, was hilarious and intriguing, mysterious to figure out, and teach how things worked. He made me realize how much I enjoy teaching RP again, when it previously had been primarily a case of making Angela and the Tower the center of arcane RP on Arelith. He made me think of how limited Angela was, in terms of her ability to teach and do.

And so, after a year or so, I made the decision to turn her into a wizard. I've never once regretted this decision, and it feels like it's both the beginning and the end of the character. It's her optimal state, a five-schooled wizard that can't fight worth a damn, but can fix with a wide variety of tools at her disposal.

Early on, before ever deciding how I was going to build her, I made a few decisions. First, was whether to just.... make a new character, and make it a wizard. I got asked this a lot, both IC and OOC. The reason for the decision, though, wasn't because I wanted to play a wizard... But because my character was a sorceress who watched wizards pass in and out of her life, teaching her hundreds of small things.... none of which she could use. The point of this change was to realize Angela's full potential as a character, not to get to play a class.

The second decision wasn't a decision so much as a commitment to a principle I'd already decided on... And hold onto your seats, cause this is the true reason for her continued longevity... Angela's story and newfound abilities wouldn't be about her. They would be about the people around her, the stories of the characters around her. She would become a foil for RP. To this end I set about her learning new, unusual, noncombative tricks: How to heal someone without magic. To walk the mindscapes of others. To create illusions as a tool for teaching and storytelling.

However, the thing that most contributed to this goal of enhancing the stories of others, is her Visions. I made my character vulnerable to the whims of other players, by putting it in her description that she can be given a vision when she interacts with someone. People can kickstart some hidden part their character hasn't encountered yet, with this. One was destined to fight a dracolich, but no one had ever really been interested in her plot hook. Cue vision, and suddenly there's someone who knows this name only she's heard before, and what's more, someone who can find out something about this mysterious destiny. Angela was a conduit for the player to tell their character what they needed to know. I do not have the words for how incredible that experience was for me as a player, because I got to watch a character's entire arc unfold and transform before my eyes as she reacted to what Angela was telling her, which was told to me by the character's player. In a sense, I was watching destiny manifest. Aren't we so often the arbiter of our characters' destinies? It's so cool to see it happen to someone else.

It doesn't have to be through her visions, though. It can be through fixing a long-term injury, going on a mindwalk to uncover lost memories, even just teach them about the planes and setting them loose. So often, it's set off by the most magical words Jacob taught me to say to everyone new: How can I help you?

And thus, the conclusion of my longwinded explanation is.... Angela stays around to help bring out other people's destinies, having reached her own. So long as there's stories to tell, and people want Angela to help tell them, she'll be around.

I have a very old character made back around 08-09. I never intended to keep him but the amount of information that came his way and that he kept *Fist shake at the notebook bug* was enough of a reason to keep him in my vault. Upon his every return my entire objective is to help and highlight nature factions (regardless of race or dogma). He never stays long. He never takes the leadership positions; always staying as advisor or old guy (tm).

I only play him like this because I don't like to take up space for longer than is needed to tell a story. I believe even the absence of certain rp/faction/leadership is rp as well. Characters will be influenced by a vacuum or a deficit. So I drag him out when I see that I can be helpful. That there is a story to uplift with the aid of a little history and attentiveness.

If there isn't one, he stays in the vault. He is support. I reserve my maker/builder characters for a 3-6 months limit.

Another example is a character I played for almost two years in total (not all in one go) was also support. She was a spy with bad communication and people skills. She gathered and disseminated. Even with the factions that she was part of she was never the face or a visible component. It was her long shelf life that turned her into a Ghost. Otherwise, at the start, she was a maker.

I have played very many characters and very few are ever returned. I kept these ones for as long as I did because there was just something unfinished with them that I couldn't bring myself to leave untold.

P.S. Its not to say that I loved these characters more. Some of my favourite characters died tragically. Here's looking at you, Miaou :p

I hope that helps.
-S

I don't enjoy making alts because of burn-out. I've been playing/DMing this game since it was released. Nearly two decades of it. Grinding monsters and levels isn't fun anymore. I'm 90% about the RP and 10% about occasional end-game PvP.

Every time I make a new character I get to about level 13 and I just get -bored- of doing dungeons. Releveling my main was torture. I never want to see a Sibayad orc again.

This game just doesn't have anything left to give me in terms of actual enjoyable gameplay, so once I get my top level and my end-game gear I'm in zero rush to do it again.

Emotionaloverload wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:09 am
P.S. Its not to say that I loved these characters more. Some of my favourite characters died tragically. Here's looking at you, Miaou :p

INTENSE SCREECHING SOUNDS

I will never forgive you, Shy. (I forgive you)

On topic, I've mained a single character since I started playing Arelith. I've had a handful of alts when I needed a break, or took breaks from Arelith entirely when I need them.

Why do I like it? I love the story. I love seeing what mischief my character can get into and how he might possibly get out of it, if he can at all. I dislike the idea of doing something involving conflict then avoiding the consequences by just rolling that character. The result of my character's actions should be just as fun as the actions that caused them in the first place. It's fun seeing the interactions and characters bouncing their ideas around. I like to see how a story plays out.

All of this takes time. Months, if not years to see how a situation plays out. And I like that.

I also enjoy having a character that can tell stories and histories of the server when people question what happened. It can take time to build up long standing factions or characters. I enjoy not needing to remember what my character does and doesn't know, if I learned something from a past character or a different one.

This style of playing isn't for everyone, nor should everyone have long running characters. I think both short and long lived characters need to exist to keep the server both fresh and moving while also having some stability for people to look at for something to either work with, for, or against. Playing long term characters really needs one to be willing to roll with the punches. You need to be able to be flexible in what you do, and have a bit of planning or ability to have your character's story evolve or change routes when needed.

For example. If you intend to play a Paladin of Torm long term, that's awesome. If you want to only play a Paladin of Torm in, say, one location? That can get harder. Say you want to be a Paladin of Torm in Cordor, long term. Well, a rival faith/faction might take the city over and you'll get booted. A long term player will need to understand that this is a possibility, and either fight back, or move to a different location. Same with wizards and the Arcane Tower, or even soldiers in a town. You need to be willing to get out of the comfortable zone and not operate in cliques solely.

Some of the best long term characters I've seen are Salasker Dusk and Ghestaldt Blimth, one still playing, one which existed for a good set of RL years. Dusk has a real elven aging about him and will tell tales of the past and operate as he wishes. He's a character that exists and reacts and builds stories that evolves through the ages.

Ghestaldt built an empire. Literally. He helped sculpt Brogendenstein into what it is today, drove tons of roleplay, in character tradition, and conflict. This isn't something that can be done over a few months then rolled off for the next character, at least not with people willing to give it more than a passing glance of memory.

These are both different types of long term characters, ones who's personal story is long with many other characters shaping it and the other building up a platform for others to interact with. Both are awesome, both require time.

At the end of the day, it boils down to I enjoy it. I enjoy playing my single character, and I have fun with it. When I stop having fun, I shelf him or take a break. If I have a long streak of not having fun, I'll perma shelf or roll. After the years of playing, I simply haven't reached that point. I do not want an arbitrary push to stop playing a character I have fun with just because he's been around for a while. It's fun, so I keep playing my one character.

I do, Elliara Wintercat, the half-elven bard. Partly it's just because I like the immersion of playing a character day in and day out over a long haul, similar to a real DnD campaign. But also I just wanted to see her through from 1-30 level and I am a VERY slow leveler, I didn't make her a very powerful build at first, and I didn't take the right gifts, and I preferred RP to combat and writs, so t took me pretty much 2 RL years to level up to 30 with her.

I also had some RP goals and I finally realized one of my big ones only a few months ago, so I didn't really consider her story arc complete until recently.

I am finally exploring a new alt now, but I pop in on Elly every week, just to keep up appearances.

KT28 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:31 pm Personally I think the distinction of whether a character is new or old and how important that is for "a healthy RP environment" is over-exaggerated.

...

I think the age of the character is much, much less important than the attitude and playstyle of the player behind the keyboard. As long as a player is open-minded, open to change, open to losing and winning (which we all should be!) I don't actually think the age of the character matters that much. In fact if anything I find some old characters to provide a very unique RP experience because they possess so much history within them - old rivalries, informed perspectives, old alliances, old loves, failures, victories, decades of growth... there's a lot to uncover if you get the chance to get to know them.

I agree with much of what you've said, but I don't think it's over-exaggerated. It's probably worth mentioning I consider "old" to be in excess of 2-3 years.

My counter-points:

There are some "good" old characters I've interacted with on now over five or six different characters of my own. It gets very hard to keep things fresh. Even the more humble and gracious legacy characters tend to become bottlenecks of roleplay, so it's not always possible to avoid them. It doesn't matter how great of a roleplayer they are, it gets repetitive and makes the world seem smaller.

History is always better written down, where it becomes an artifact: shared, argued and (mis)interpreted. There's much more magic and mystery than hearing it from the horse's mouth.

And of course, every old character thinks they're the "right" kind, whose immortality is welcome and necessary.

There's a few archetypes of lingering characters I've noticed.

1. The veteran. As discussed. They age gracefully and become a fixture of a world around them. They understand the implications of their staying around and try to stay out of the lime-light and use their prestige to sponsor new talent. The player won't roll because they don't have the time in their life for the kind of investment a new character requires anymore.
2. The perennial. They have a single-minded goal and whenever it fails (which it does every time), they wait a generation of PCs to try again and hope their foils have moved on.
3. The crafter. They just want to amass wealth, and rock default robes while doing it. Usually 10+ years old, and no one even knows.
4. The controller. They want to keep hold of their faction forever. When they lose power they will quit the server entirely.
5. The avatar. Their character is basically them. They won't roll because they are totally enmeshed with their virtual self.
6. The born again. In order to keep young, they rebrand their character over and over again, jumping from faction to faction, moral code to moral code.

I first played Ember Joyleaf for about 8 RL months. In the beginning I really enjoyed the character as I was discovering Arelith for the first time. Sadly, being in the worst time zone ever for playing on this server, eventually I often found myself alone in Bendir. My RP was quite restricted with this character to a single settlement. She didn't know many people outside of Bendir and eventually playing her became stale. She had several groups of regular friends who left/died or otherwise disappeared and I just got bored without any story or character development for her.

I then made Emma Young. I've played Emma for nearly 1RL year. And honestly, there isn't a single day I am bored. By nature of being an APAC player I do not get involved much/at all in plot lines or events since it's near impossible. However, because of who Emma is and has become I am in a unique position with her to use the character to create lots of story and opportunities for other people which I thoroughly enjoy. I have seen characters develop around me, I've seen them grow, die, change and some of it I have been able to influence. It's been very rewarding having a subtle impact on other players like that. But also I really enjoy all the changes to my character over the IG years too. Seeing how she went from a young, naive, often far too serious and arrogant girl who constantly made questionable decisions and made plenty of mistakes to growing and maturing as a great leader, kind hearted person (most times) and a role model with a super strong value system to many people.

I run a very successful and fun faction, which takes an incredible amount of time, energy and effort to keep running (especially being in Australia and very demanding full time job). But I have the help and support of an amazing, kind and collaborative community which also adds a lot to my enjoyment. So personally? What keeps this long term character fun is the people around me. To see other people's stories develop. To be part of that and to help with it.

I've had the opportunity to interact with so man amazing players on this server with this character. Even if she is most often in Cordor, she has friends in the Heartwood, Guldorand, Cordor and a few strays. She has incredible enemies in the Underdark who I've been able to do lots of enjoyable conflict RP with.

I still keep Wotan Woodberry ready with hope I can someday find an memorable ending that feel giving closure, through it gets tiresome to play wronged hero with no tools nor power to restore his name, never getting involved with anything. I dont want any of my characters have ending of ”then he just disapeared or died behind the screen and nobody heard of him since. Beside he’s my first character here. I mostly log on him to write his tales on the libaries until he is ready for roll... if that ever happens.

With Beast King Karstaag I get involved with lot of plots and stories, building things with the monstrous community of Scourge Tribe and culture I’ve build with others for the ”underdog races, gathering lore and figuring out how to best bring it into game, that with hopes leave mark into server like Earthkin Alliance.

I do feel that players should be more open minded to roll their characters or at least take a long step back. While there might be many who feel comfortable with their character or being loved by community, they will most often end up as gatekeepers that prevent any shake ups and blow of fresh air from passing, being fully aware of it or not. These characters might end up having too much power, making them nearly untouchable IC and OOC, because touching them might make many upset by their players or fans.

Marsi wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:49 am

KT28 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:31 pm Personally I think the distinction of whether a character is new or old and how important that is for "a healthy RP environment" is over-exaggerated.

...

I think the age of the character is much, much less important than the attitude and playstyle of the player behind the keyboard. As long as a player is open-minded, open to change, open to losing and winning (which we all should be!) I don't actually think the age of the character matters that much. In fact if anything I find some old characters to provide a very unique RP experience because they possess so much history within them - old rivalries, informed perspectives, old alliances, old loves, failures, victories, decades of growth... there's a lot to uncover if you get the chance to get to know them.

I agree with much of what you've said, but I don't think it's over-exaggerated. It's probably worth mentioning I consider "old" to be in excess of 2-3 years.

My counter-points:

There are some "good" old characters I've interacted with on now over five or six different characters of my own. It gets very hard to keep things fresh. Even the more humble and gracious legacy characters tend to become bottlenecks of roleplay, so it's not always possible to avoid them. It doesn't matter how great of a roleplayer they are, it gets repetitive and makes the world seem smaller.

History is always better written down, where it becomes an artifact: shared, argued and (mis)interpreted. There's much more magic and mystery than hearing it from the horse's mouth.

And of course, every old character thinks they're the "right" kind, whose immortality is welcome and necessary.

There's a few archetypes of lingering characters I've noticed.

1. The veteran. As discussed. They age gracefully and become a fixture of a world around them. They understand the implications of their staying around and try to stay out of the lime-light and use their prestige to sponsor new talent. The player won't roll because they don't have the time in their life for the kind of investment a new character requires anymore.
2. The perennial. They have a single-minded goal and whenever it fails (which it does every time), they wait a generation of PCs to try again and hope their foils have moved on.
3. The crafter. They just want to amass wealth, and rock default robes while doing it. Usually 10+ years old, and no one even knows.
4. The controller. They want to keep hold of their faction forever. When they lose power they will quit the server entirely.
5. The avatar. Their character is basically them. They won't roll because they are totally enmeshed with their virtual self.
6. The born again. In order to keep young, they rebrand their character over and over again, jumping from faction to faction, moral code to moral code.

I like this post. It's perhaps a tad harsh, but I think there is a chunk of truth to it.

I said before that this isn't about a statement saying that long running characters shoudln't exist. That would be silly. I've a few long running characters of my own (though granted most with large breaks in their story). But I do think that when you have an extremely long running character, there are some pitfalls to consider - some things to keep in mind if you care not just about your own enjoyment, but the health of the server.

Some points (and problems) with older characters include

1) Server Resources: 'Oh wow, that Guildhall looks amazing! I can think of an amazing group we could make in there. We could call it the-' 'Nope sorry. Never gonna happen?' 'Huh what?' 'The Silver Butterfly Group runs that place. The owner has lived there for five RL years. She's never going to give it up.' 'But she doesn't even do much with it and my concept-' 'doesn't matter. She owns it. She's sticking to it. Deal.'
Basically - consider what resources you are denying to other players, possibly for extended periods. If you're continuously using and sharing that resource (quarter, shop ect) then that's not too bad - but even then, consider that, after a few RL years, maybe passing it onto another person to have fun with.

2) Over Investiment: It's easy to get over attatched to a Thing as one character. Maybe that thing is a settlment, or a cause, or some other nebulous goal, but you have to accept that goal may never come to pass. And that your actions on anything may be temporary. And that is alright. Ultimatly Dev/Admin decisions are made on what we percieve good for the player base - old and you - not on (or at the very least not just on) what is good for the entire player base. Not just what is good for one faction, or one person.
So if or when things change, or don't go your way, it's very easy to get extremely upset.
'But I worked my fingers to the -bone!- I gathered 1000 players! I did events every day! We have ten OOC years of HISTORY behind our project! I gave up nights with my family to get this done! I worked super duper hard as did every person in our faction and not THIS happens? If you make this change, it'll be a middle finger to our entire group!'
'Did you do those things because we forced you to? Because Arelith is a job and obligation? Or did you do those things because you wanted to? Because Arelith is a game and a hobby?'
'Well...'
'Right. So I'm honoured and glad you worked as hard as you did, good on you. But that was always your choice. You were never entitled to anything.'
I know this one sounds harsh, but I see it in old pcs a quite a bit, and it's always unpleasent. Yeah, Devs may take into accoutn player actions ect when they can, sure. But it's never guaranteed. Older characters suffer from this more because they've been working hard at it. I respect that. But it's always wise to take a step back, and simply expect failure. Keep in mind you're not 'obliged' or 'forced' or 'made' to do any long project. You do it because it is fun. And if it bears fruit? Awsome. If it doesn't? Well you had fun anyway.

3) Becoming Your Character: When you play the same character for long enough, they can really get a hold on your head. So much that it sometimes feels that the character and the player are one in the same. That means when things inevitably go wrong for your character (and they always will at some point) it can really hurt. Remember your character isn't You. Another problem with this is it can lead (and old pcs in general) is it can turn into extreme tribalism and cliquishness, because such pcs rarely move away from their area.
To avoid this pain, I strongly suggest leaving this Main character alone and trying others- especially others with vastly different opinions//world views/spheres of influence. This will freshen things up a lot, so when you go back to your Old Favorite, you will emerge fresh, and with a little bit more distance. It will also open up new interactions, friendship and perspectives!
To drop an example: Mat the player has always played Tam, the Cordorian. He works with roughly the same group, is super invested in Cordor, and regularly rants about how Myon elves are aloof and lazy, Brog dwarves are dumb and cranky, and the underdarkers are all douches. HIs chats with friends are super toxic, and he's very invested in making sure Cordor thrives! He gets in trouble over this, and gets super wound up when one of the other aformentioned groups 'wins' something.
Then one day he decides to try alting. He playes Melf the Elf* and as he interacts with Myon, he finds out that they're super inclusive and fun. The players arn't all snooty and arrogant and are a blast to be around. This went so well he makes Dug the Dwarf - and WOW! The Dwarf players know how to party! They make fantastic raids on new dungoens he's never seen before, and like the elf have a real sense of culture and honour he finds facinating! Then he dares to take the plunge as a Drow in the underdark and huh! They're not all douches! Most ofthem are actually super invested in making sure the other side has fun, and he finds that a lot of the players down there are really, really genous to new pcs, and just stand up folk in general!!
From a salty person, caught up in one area and beliving the rest of the server are idiots/meanies, Mat now understands that - whilst of course there are some bad eggs, there are lots of fun folk out there, with great concepts and wonderful stories to tell of every shade and style! Which excites him for his next story - whatever it may be.

4) Jaded Adventurer Syndrome: One issue I've seen with some pcs is they get... tired and jaded and angry with the world as it pans out. This tends to show itself in meta knowledge comments. 'Oh don't worry, the dead guy will show up again tomorrow.' 'Huh. Bendir had an explosion? eh it'll be fine.' 'Oh look. Another Drow raid. *yawn*' or just anger and jadedness at what will inevitbly be fight they cannot win. 'What yet ANOTHER attack on Guldorand? Can the DMs leave us alone! That's the seventh this year!' or 'These bad guys won't die! Fighting them is useless!' 'The world is hopless! Evil always arises again!' 'The cause is futile, Cordor will never fall before us!' - et cetera, et cetera.
Ultimatly these phrases are correct in a way - there will always be another attack on Guldorand, yet -another- Drow raid. Yet -another- sorcerer who got over emotional and burned her family ect. But such jadedness is rarely actually useful or pleasent In Game.
A lot of characters tryign to DO stuff wnat rp effects. They want people to be shocked, or sympathetic, or angry, or something other than *yawn*. If you feel that the grind is endless that is because, on an ooc level, it is. The only way for it to rally end would be to turn off the server. But it's not endless -for your character!- That's why retiring or ending a character is very important. Because that brings closuer to the 'endless row of events' for your /character/. And that's what needs to happen sometimes. Your characer is/was a Big Damn Hero. Now it's time to move aside and let another pc take their place.
Of course some people are happy to just push aside this feeling, and understand, on a meta level, that certain trends will always exist, et cetera. And that's fine too. But I really would advise if you're feeling like the above? It's probaby time to at least try an alt somewhere else, and get that fresh new feeling.

5) The Historian Victorious: So Bob McEvil the secret Cyracist was a big deal on the isle ten months ago, but he got discovered, defeated, and the player decided 'I know, I'll retire him a bit.' Because he feels he can do a bit more with the concept and wants to try again later. Awsome.
So nine months later Bob returns, puts on a disguise and starts getting the lay of the land.
But *gasp* Joan has seen him. Joan is 3 years old, and remembers those days. She has a high spot and happens to break his disguise. She knows who he is, and immedatly runs around. 'BOB IS BACK!' she writes on every message board around, 'He's disguised as Tony! We must defeat him once more!'
This is an example of a character using old knowledge to squash any chance of a comback from other old characters - and is that really fair or nice? I'm not saying that Joan shouldn't have ever used her knowledge - but she doesn't neccesarly have to run around screaming about it at the top of her lungs immedatly. This is of course part of a larger discussion about making the game fun for other players ect, ect. But in reguards to this topic - I'd just ask that old characters use their antique knowledge with a bit of care. Let returning old guard have a bit of space to have fun before raining on their parade. Especialy if they're interesting and worthy nemisis.

6: Flop-flop-character: I don't know that I'd call this a massive 'problem' if I'm honest. Unlike some of the other points, I don't think it is hugely detrimental to the server at whole, except that it will make some PCs just roll their eyes and go, 'really?' I'm not saying that characters can't change. Certainly they can! And especially over a long period. However if over the course of three years your character has gone from LG paladin, to LE assassin to NE druid to NG ranger to CN rogue - then it's going to look a bit... dare I say it... silly?
Leveling can be a pain, but it's not that much of a pain. And people will tend to appreciate five well done character arcs, over one terribly done character... rollercoaster I suppose. Once more I don't neccesarly consider this a huge 'problem' so much as it... well it's more likely a problem for you, the player. Because a pc that flip-flops too much won't tend to have a high rpr rating.

7) Wanting The Perfect Ending - Petrificus touched on this a bit- and it's one that sometimes comes up. I don't think it's a 'peril' of having an old character, but sometimes you get characters that seem... either too stale or far too maluble and you end up sorta 'feeling' the tiredness that comes from them.
Like the jaded example, you can tell that the player wants 'Done' on some level, but keeps hammering away because his work isn't 'done' on his terms.
I think to be honest this is something the DM team can (occasioanlly) help with. And if you are seeking to end a character - please do contact us. I can't promise a multi chaptered epic in which your character dies via a fistfight with Bane himself, but we may be able to wrap up something interesting for you.
However this is a game, a roleplaying game, not a book. There will always, in your characters life, be events, twists, and turns, that you do not expect, and you need to keep your expectations reasonable there after. If your aim is 'die heroically and have every person in cordor fall to their knees weeping pitiously for your passing!' - then your character dies, and only a few people in Cordor fall to their knees and weep pitiously - then that's not a reason to respawn and go 'uh uh, not a good enough reaction. I'mma gonna keep going until my characters death is just like how I wrote it in this here book!' - Again arelith is not a book, and you cannot completely controle everything. So just try and get in throwing distance.


Phew. That's long.
To stress - not all old charcters fall into these pits. And I'm not advocating that say, we put a life span on old characters or anything, or that all PCs should last a maximing of two months and no more- or something silly. In fact I actually agree that having older pcs around can be really good and useful!. But I do think that these are things to be mindful of as your character gets older.

To summerise - my suggestions for people playing Older Characters (If they arn't doing these already)

*Don't get too attatched to anything, and let go of things for others (be it faction ownership, property, items...)
*Try not to become too invested in your faction/cause/ambition
*Play alts occasionally to - to get a new perspective and to remain distant on your Main PC.
*Consider taking long breaks, and come at things fresh. The world will survive without you and you can use the time to recharge.
*Use the Knowledge, Items, Wealth, ect you gain as an old character wisely to increase the fun of others, especialy your nemsis.
*Ask yourself if your latest character development is actually sensible for your character, or if it's just you wanting to play in a new/different area of the server. if the latter - then is it right to force them that way? Maybe it's new character time.
*Know when to end it, and know that your ending probably won't be perfect, but sometimes near perfect is good enough.


*Melf the Elf was an actual character, one of the earliest in D&D. Melfs Acid Arrow is named after him. The more you know eh?

while my own character hasn't been played that long, I don't know when I will eventually roll her, for a few reasons. Firstly that it takes me a significant amount of time to feel like I get into the headspace of a character and know who they are or how to play them, and secondly that the process of leveling and gearing is arduous and obnoxious enough that I don't care to repeat it frequently.

Marsi wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:49 am

KT28 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:31 pm Personally I think the distinction of whether a character is new or old and how important that is for "a healthy RP environment" is over-exaggerated.

...

I think the age of the character is much, much less important than the attitude and playstyle of the player behind the keyboard. As long as a player is open-minded, open to change, open to losing and winning (which we all should be!) I don't actually think the age of the character matters that much. In fact if anything I find some old characters to provide a very unique RP experience because they possess so much history within them - old rivalries, informed perspectives, old alliances, old loves, failures, victories, decades of growth... there's a lot to uncover if you get the chance to get to know them.

I agree with much of what you've said, but I don't think it's over-exaggerated. It's probably worth mentioning I consider "old" to be in excess of 2-3 years.

My counter-points:

There are some "good" old characters I've interacted with on now over five or six different characters of my own. It gets very hard to keep things fresh. Even the more humble and gracious legacy characters tend to become bottlenecks of roleplay, so it's not always possible to avoid them. It doesn't matter how great of a roleplayer they are, it gets repetitive and makes the world seem smaller.

History is always better written down, where it becomes an artifact: shared, argued and (mis)interpreted. There's much more magic and mystery than hearing it from the horse's mouth.

And of course, every old character thinks they're the "right" kind, whose immortality is welcome and necessary.

There's a few archetypes of lingering characters I've noticed.

1. The veteran. As discussed. They age gracefully and become a fixture of a world around them. They understand the implications of their staying around and try to stay out of the lime-light and use their prestige to sponsor new talent. The player won't roll because they don't have the time in their life for the kind of investment a new character requires anymore.
2. The perennial. They have a single-minded goal and whenever it fails (which it does every time), they wait a generation of PCs to try again and hope their foils have moved on.
3. The crafter. They just want to amass wealth, and rock default robes while doing it. Usually 10+ years old, and no one even knows.
4. The controller. They want to keep hold of their faction forever. When they lose power they will quit the server entirely.
5. The avatar. Their character is basically them. They won't roll because they are totally enmeshed with their virtual self.
6. The born again. In order to keep young, they rebrand their character over and over again, jumping from faction to faction, moral code to moral code.

Say all of that again.

Note how 1/6 of these archetypes are positive. I bet that directly translates to only 1/6 "old" characters being a force for good roleplay.

I immediately get skeptical whenever someone says their roleplay is "comfortable", or that they "want to keep exploring the story", or that they "love the character" - and these characters are starting to get "old."

Yeah, sure. All of that may be true. Yeah, I get it, making a new character is hard from a creative standpoint. (But I am entirely unsympathetic to the viewpoint that "I don't want to create a new character because it takes so long to get clout/prestige/epic levels." Yeah, duh. It clearly means a lot of this is more important to you than you think.)

But I'll come from a school of thought that you need a good hard look in the mirror at that point. My defacto assumption is that all of these phrases actually mask an inability to move on, an inability to end a story, and an almost superhero-comic-book style of play where your character is more a self-perpetuating brand than a character.

Wow there's a lot of long answers in this thread.
For me it's really simple: I play a character for as long as I'm having fun with them.
When they're no longer fun I shelve them for at least a week to see how I feel about rolling them.
If they're close to 26 I sometimes figure to grind them out (not that I get anything but normals XD) but otherwise they tend to lurk in my vault unless I want to grab a reward for the next concept.

What makes me want to keep playing a character is the friends they made along the way. That's the real treasure. When I have a character and all their friends have rolled or went inactive it gets lonely/sad and I end up looking for a way to finish their story and roll. Sometimes I regret it later because right after I roll some of their friends come back or I hear of some interesting plot my character could have played a big part in. If anything I am probably too quick to roll despite becoming very attached to some of the characters I played.

When it comes to older characters acting as gate keepers or road blocks for other people to get involved in settlements or tell their story, yeah I've definitely seen that happen. I've also seen groups of new characters played by older players come in and take over and do the same thing to older characters played by newer players, if that makes any sense. Someone who has been playing a character for a year but that is their first and only character is still probably not going to have as much influence as a veteran who has been playing 8 years, has 100 friends on discord, and just made a new character.

The GrumpyCat wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:52 pm ** All this stuff **

Great post. Covers most, if not all, the thoughts that go through my head on this topic.

I have to say there are a number of 'old' characters on the server who have a habit of belittling (not in an intentionally unkind way), the achievements of newer PCs by insisting on telling them that whatever -event/story- they have just engaged in, already happened in year XXX/will just repeat itself tomorrow. This kind of matches in with what Grump said about 'Jaded Adventurer Syndrome', which really doesn't add anything to anyone experience that is positive. We get it, most things have happened before - does that mean newer PCs can't enjoy them as a first time experience? It's a real party-pooper thing to do.

I usually keep my characters active from anywhere between four-twelve months, rolling them when it feels natural/done. I do think some settlements could do with a shake up in terms of leading PCs who often seem somewhat entrenched, but that is really just my personal opinion.