Arelith

Xerah wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:49 am Right now, there is an archer issue (related to DEX) and a divine DEX issue.

Blinding speed, being a free action, not dropping expertise, allowing 1r to haste+DS+DM, and have 3x duration of a wand/potion is one of the biggest reasons why.

Looks like somebody know MAIN balance issue right now.

Jencent wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:55 am

Xerah wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:49 am Right now, there is an archer issue (related to DEX) and a divine DEX issue.

Blinding speed, being a free action, not dropping expertise, allowing 1r to haste+DS+DM, and have 3x duration of a wand/potion is one of the biggest reasons why.

Looks like somebody know MAIN balance issue right now.

It might be a balance issue worth looking at, however, this thread is about heavy armor for STR Melee, not people with 25 Dexterity who take Blinding Speed with Divine dips. No one with 25 Dexterity is going to be wearing heavy armor anyways.

Don't you know? Every thread is for individual poster's pet peeves. You heard about wharftown?

Anyway: Why not some runic options? Some class specific options? We've got SD armors, rogue armors, ranger armors, monk armors, bard clothes, cleric clothes, in the medium-to-vesture range, why not some specific stuff in the heavy range?

Drowboy wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:15 pm Don't you know? Every thread is for individual poster's pet peeves. You heard about wharftown?

I can't stand having holes in my socks.

Drowboy wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:15 pmAnyway: Why not some runic options? Some class specific options? We've got SD armors, rogue armors, ranger armors, monk armors, bard clothes, cleric clothes, in the medium-to-vesture range, why not some specific stuff in the heavy range?

This guy gets it. We're finally on track.

I would love to see more options, especially for chainmail (5/2 - yes its medium but it could use some love) and banded mail (6/2). Those two armor types have zero useful options at the moment.

Banded and chain come into handy as a green steel variant

I kind of like the instant action component of Blinding Speed. It makes it feel like a mundane ability. One possible fix is to have it start off as a movement speed increase only, and have the full haste effect not kick in until 30 seconds later.

Optionally, have the full haste effect wear off sooner, but allow the movement speed increase to linger.

This might attenuate some of the issues with dex divine builds.

There are players who use medium armor to identify warlocks, which is pretty sad. It would be nice if more classes had a reason to use it.

Party in the forest at midnight wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:26 pm There are players who use medium armor to identify warlocks, which is pretty sad. It would be nice if more classes had a reason to use it.

People will just reach for anything won't they

Dr. B wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:12 pm I kind of like the instant action component of Blinding Speed. It makes it feel like a mundane ability. One possible fix is to have it start off as a movement speed increase only, and have the full haste effect not kick in until 30 seconds later.

Optionally, have the full haste effect wear off sooner, but allow the movement speed increase to linger.

This might attenuate some of the issues with dex divine builds.

Yeah but that will hurt non-divine builds more. Blinding speed is very good and not too OP on standard (non divine might using) 24/6 rogues and so on.. I'd hate to see it nerfed because divine archers are in vogue.

What would heavy armour offer as bonuses? Perhaps damage reduction/immunities or some form of biteback? Realistically speaking only fighters, weaponmasters and divine classes use the stuff and considering the minimal skill points of those kinds I can't see many skill bonuses on armour being of interest.

From what I've seen armour usage is broken down by Dex; 8 - 13 uses heavy while dex 15 uses studded or leather. There are of course exceptions such a strength rangers and 20 level barbarians but for the most part chain, scale and banded are ignored simply because nothing is gained by using them. No matter what your AC from armour will always be around the 12-13 mark, anything lower or more of a hassle to make don't register as worthwhile.

Adding damage reduction to addy plate seems like a good idea to me. It's so expensive to make and really doesn't offer much for all that adamantine. It would be nice to actually FEEL like a tank or juggernaught in a full suit of addy. The shield might need some love too, because for its cost it isn't much better (or arguably worse) than a mithril shield, which is far cheaper in every way.

Grand Full Plate (Full Plate: base AC 8)
+3 AC
+4 AC vs. Slashing
+4 AC vs. Piercing
runic
15% damage immunity vs slashing
5% vulnerability vs. bludgeoning
+20% weight increase

Cataphract Banded Mail (Banded Mail: base AC 6)
+5 AC
+15% immunity to slashing
+15% immunity to piercing
+10 ride
+4 Discipline
+2 reflex saves

Mirror Mail (Half-Plate: base AC 7)
+4 AC
+2 Disc
+2 Fort save
5% immunity to magic
Shield (CL 12) CD: 5 minutes

A notable difference between heavy and light armor is that most of the new light armors are straight upgrades to the best that was once available, though generally they are class-specific. For instance, ranger's runic vestments, disciple's garb, murder's raiment, and penumbral vestments all have the same (or better) AC as the old enchanted silk shirt, plus a +2 stat bonus, skills very relevant to the class, and some combination of a buff spell/day or runic. This means that enchanted shirts are generally not endgame gear, but rather a late mid-tier stepping stone.

Meanwhile, the only new heavy armor that has equivalent AC to adamantine full plate is the Orog battle armor, which is hard locked to orogs. The rest of the new heavy armors are sidegrades and tradeoffs, which lack relevant +2 stat buffs, runic, spell slots or spells/day properties commonly found on light armors.

First thing I'd do (though I don't know if it's currently possible) is change splint/banded max dex to +2, giving them base AC equivalent to half plate, chain shirts, studded leather, and leather armor. For heavy armors, something along the lines of the following, perhaps?

+3 AC
10% Slashing Immunity
+2 Wis
+4 Concentration
Runic
Only usable by: Cleric

+3 AC
10% Slashing Immunity
+2 Str
+1 Will Save
Freedom of Movement or Lesser Mind Blank (1/day or unlimited/day on cooldown)
Only Usable by: Weapon Master

+3 AC
15-20% Slashing Immunity
Stoneskin (1/day or unlimited/day on cooldown)
Runic
Only Usable by: Earthkin Defender

I've no doubt that the folks in the build Discord could offer better suggestions that target struggling strength builds. These are rough examples only.

Last-second edit: Love Ork's ideas as well!

Stoneskin is worthless to DD other than to buff others, but other than that I like the 20% slashing immunity

"Edit" sorry to anyone with heavy DD. It only rewards those who dip into the class.

mjones3 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:54 am Stoneskin is worthless to DD other than to buff others, but other than that I like the 20% slashing immunity

"Edit" sorry to anyone with heavy DD. It only rewards those who dip into the class.

Derp, blanked on DD's DR. Balagarn's Iron Horn or Globe of Invulnerability on a 5 min cooldown?