Arelith

Zaphiel wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:23 pm

Archnon wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:18 pm

Gouge Away wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:16 am Perhaps open it to barbarians, shamans, wild elves, wild dwarves and forest gnomes as a surface tribal area still run by but not exclusive to half orcs? And move it deeper into the wilderness?

This would be awesome. You've got the seedy port next to a camp that thrives on more chaotic builds/classes. Open housing up to other groups and open traffic up to everyone.

Finally, add in a Chaotic radiant heart equivalent. Chaotic-neutral (Good, neutral, evil) mercenary guild that gives jobs and has markings like the radiant heart. Something to offset for the other end of the spectrum. Then you can encourage mercenary RP, for example settlements may want to hire Half-Orc guards. Or you could go there to hire a dwarven barbarian guard if you are sailing now, which has increased in riskiness. Then it would make sense next to the port. I think there could be more room for non-lawful, non-evil RP there.

+1

Rare that one of my ideas gets a nod from two of the top devs so I figured I should seize the moment and say something more.

It would be really great if this could function more like the assassins guild, where players could join and get hired by other players. You join and you get access to the message boards. People can take out contracts where they post the IC and OOC day and time of their expedition and you check the boards and if there is one you want to do, you take the contract and show up. You could do a payment system where the person puts in money upon posting the contract and then reports if the mercenaries showed up and the guild pays it out to them. Keep the amounts small and let it be an opportunity for chaos both ways. Mercenaries could show up and turn, or leave early, leaving the contractor in dire straights. Contractors could refuse to pay at the risk of not getting contracts in the future. etc. etc.

Do something with it that encourages active RP. This type of system would be a great place to point new players to to find opportunities for adventuring parties and building relationships. This can be especially important in what can be a bit of an overwhelming server.

Aleilsum Ellrum wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:27 pm I was new then but had the impression that there was a small chance for non-half-bloods to enter if you rolled high enough? taht seemed to create new traffic through, which lead to some trading which led to some sense of vitality.

Maybe a headmerchant, peddler and couple others?

*mumbles* I'd love to see a merchant who purveys female things like kohl and blusher, as they were known. Half breed camp'd have a nice dryness to it.

You used to be able to bluff your way in or smash the gate. There is periodically some solid RP in there but completely locking it off like it is now definately makes it harder to set up a faction in there.

There was a time Orogs could and did reside there in the down low, not sure if it is possible anymore.

I was part of two factions in there a few years back. It lacks vitality now, I agree the likely tipping point was completely locking everyone out.

The problem with this place is that the quarters are free for all - no racial restrictions - but the gate is now unbashable (I'll take the fault for that) and I dont know about that NPC but I was never able to beat the social skill check. I think this place is sad and that in this pace and direction it will eventually be turned to an npc camp, maybe a dungeon. A more logical solution imo, would be to just make the quarters racial restricted and open the place for everyone. Add a couple more npc guards while at it. I think it would go a long way in enabling RP within the theme of the place.

I'm just gonna re-iterate what Archnon said, making it a chaotic equivalent to the Radiant Heart would be awesome.

Personally, I'd lean towards making it a Barbarian Tribe type deal where the "Writs" are more along the line of slaying particular monsters and bringing the heads back in exchange for some kind of tribal gear (i.e. Kill abazuur, bring back the head, add a blah to a special barbarian belt or something which you wear to show you're in the tribe)

Having been looking to set up a base there with a goblin faction recently, we were looking about the place to assess if it was viable when a host of fully buffed epic characters walked in and killed everyone that they could before we even really had a chance to say a word. (possibly because they hostiled and summons etc auto attacked)

i find that the idea that anyone would actually want to make a base there when that sort of behaviour, ignoring the NPCs present etc etc goes on is highly unlikely as all it takes is one pc that can access the place via a scripted conversation to allow an overwhelming force to enter into what is supposed to be a vibrant tribal hub.

The place should either be given the same status as the other faction hubs (cordor, crows nest, anundor, etc) with the ooc protections regarding NPC presence or it should have the lock removed form the gate and just become a lawless anarchic community with the strong safe and anyone else taking their place in the pecking order.

blood makes noise wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:59 pm Having been looking to set up a base there with a goblin faction recently, we were looking about the place to assess if it was viable when a host of fully buffed epic characters walked in and killed everyone that they could before we even really had a chance to say a word. (possibly because they hostiled and summons etc auto attacked)

i find that the idea that anyone would actually want to make a base there when that sort of behaviour, ignoring the NPCs present etc etc goes on is highly unlikely as all it takes is one pc that can access the place via a scripted conversation to allow an overwhelming force to enter into what is supposed to be a vibrant tribal hub.

The place should either be given the same status as the other faction hubs (cordor, crows nest, anundor, etc) with the ooc protections regarding NPC presence or it should have the lock removed form the gate and just become a lawless anarchic community with the strong safe and anyone else taking their place in the pecking order.

I mean - you prefaced this with the only information that was necessary: you were goblins.

Andunorians/Monsters should never feel comfortable or safe (let alone welcome enough to set up permanent shop) on the Surface and vice versa.

I understand your point, however, were we half orcs or humans the same outcome would have prevailed i am sure.

The situation still stands that the place either needs to be respected as a HUB and NPCs views considered or the place needs to be overhauled and its purpose changed and access not be by a scripted convo that can be abused.

I am sorry, but I fail to see any logical reason for which surface monster races should be any more uncomfortable in the wilderness of the surface than surface non-monster races. I don't think there should be any difference in comfort for a human or a goblin in sitting on a wind-swept peak.

Itikar wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:40 pm I am sorry, but I fail to see any logical reason for which surface monster races should be any more uncomfortable in the wilderness of the surface than surface non-monster races. I don't think there should be any difference in comfort for a human or a goblin in sitting on a wind-swept peak.

Yes but this wasn't in the wilderness, it was in a heavily NPC protected area.

But this is a bit of a knotty one- so let's look at it from several What If Scenarios

If the pcs in the camp had been halforcs, or humans, and not goblins - then I would have considered the attack poor roleplay. Not neccesarly against the rules, but not a great showing.

IF there had been no attack, and you guys had decided to try and set up base (hang out all the time, buy shops/homes ect) there- then we as DMs would have likely stepped in. The NPCs would. at best, have told you that whilst they might turn the other cheek to the occasional goblin passing through, living or spending time there would be dissalowed. At worst you'd have had groups of NPC mobs killing you off.

As it was a group of humans came in and anihalated a maurauding goblin tribe that was probably intent on conquring a halforcish hamlet. If anything the NPCs should have been throwing them a parade.

The GrumpyCat wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:50 pm

Yes but this wasn't in the wilderness, it was in a heavily NPC protected area.

But this is a bit of a knotty one- so let's look at it from several What If Scenarios

If the pcs in the camp had been halforcs, or humans, and not goblins - then I would have considered the attack poor roleplay. Not neccesarly against the rules, but not a great showing.

IF there had been no attack, and you guys had decided to try and set up base (hang out all the time, buy shops/homes ect) there- then we as DMs would have likely stepped in. The NPCs would. at best, have told you that whilst they might turn the other cheek to the occasional goblin passing through, living or spending time there would be dissalowed. At worst you'd have had groups of NPC mobs killing you off.

As it was a group of humans came in and anihalated a maurauding goblin tribe that was probably intent on conquring a halforcish hamlet. If anything the NPCs should have been throwing them a parade.

We had had ic discussions with the half orcs pcs and other inhabitants there about the possibility of using it as a staging post, but tbh it was one of several options we were considering as part of our plotting/engagement with other pcs etc and not the first choice but we were rp'ing our decisions ic rather than just making an ooc one.

Small suggestions to make it clearer,

> change the name from Half-Breed Camp to like *popular Half-Orc name here* Camp.
> Have NPCs be very vocal that the camp is about half-breeds, and that half-breeds don't parlay with Andunorians.
> get rid of some of the tribalism undertones and place it with like a more militant/industrial half-orc. Have some big awesome statues that marvel half-orc champions

The Half-Breed camp (and half-orcs in generals on Arelith) have had a weird history. I think the best angle to take is to go the old Roshnack line of "half orcs are their own" and really make it clear that the camp is a surface settlement dedicated to half-orcs, and not some weird tribal ambiguous place where maaaaaybe Andunorians could fit in.

Having hung around the Half-Breed camp, a lot of invokes similar ideas to other "ambiguous" places on the Surface. I don't blame players/characters for thinking this might be an acceptable place for a monster to go.

I think it's a design issue.

Echoing Seven, & another really important point is that goblins, gnolls, hobgoblins, kobolds, troglodytes, and ogres are all surface races. It does the setting an injustice that these playable characters are inexplicably banned from permanent or semi-permanent surface settlements.

Normalizing monsters on the surface should be encouraged alongside encouraging a higher level of danger for other surface settlements/races.

Ork wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:19 pm Echoing Seven, & another really important point is that goblins, gnolls, hobgoblins, kobolds, troglodytes, and ogres are all surface races.

I actually agree with this except I'm 70% sure that Troglodytes are actually a UD race technically.

Also, Arelith's attitude towards monstrous PCs is already pretty weird in context, we had a massive thread about Surface being stagnant because settlements stomp evil characters on sight but that kind of attitude is encouraged when it's a goblin who hasn't done anything but isn't OK when it's a human who's killed several people.

But I'm not really willing to dig into the argument because "good monster" RP oughta be tricky to pull off and nobody wants a swarm of Drizzts.

Ork wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:19 pm Echoing Seven, & another really important point is that goblins, gnolls, hobgoblins, kobolds, troglodytes, and ogres are all surface races. It does the setting an injustice that these playable characters are inexplicably banned from permanent or semi-permanent surface settlements.

Normalizing monsters on the surface should be encouraged alongside encouraging a higher level of danger for other surface settlements/races.

Speaking as an ogre player, I agree with this in theory and in general lore. And I sure would love to have a place to RP on the surface. I certainly would never have gone into the UD as an ogre, but it's the only option.
The way Arelith is set up makes this proposal difficult. Every single den or camp of monsters on the entire surface is designed so that players can - and are encouraged to, via writs - go in and kill them. To make a surface settlement where monstrous races can live would need a pretty huge reason as to why other players can't go in and murder them. Because why wouldn't they? They already do it everywhere else and are rewarded for doing so.
Even if you had some kind of situation where, for example, some orc warlord gathers a massive army and constructs a fort on Arelith so dangerous and full of enemies that non-monstrous players couldn't safely enter on their own, it could never last long-term. The NPC governments of Cordor/Amn/etc. wouldn't tolerate it. At best I could see it ending up as a DM-run plot where the orcs are eventually defeated and the "good guys" win, leaving the status quo of Arelith intact. Even if for whatever reason the "good guys" are interesting in suing for peace, it wouldn't work because monstrous races are by their nature aggressive invaders. If the orc/ogre/gnoll/goblin/hobgoblin warlord signs a peace treaty, he'll get killed by a more ambitious monster who rallies the horde to start warring again.

In the end this tangent doesn't really matter. Irongron has said he doesn't want a monstrous settlement on the surface, so it isn't happening. Better to focus ideas somewhere else.

Aradin wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:15 pmIn the end this tangent doesn't really matter. Irongron has said he doesn't want a monstrous settlement on the surface, so it isn't happening. Better to focus ideas somewhere else.

While IG certainly has said that, I don't believe that players should be dissuaded from acting on the surface towards goals that are never achievable. The crux of the frustration is the appearance of player agency being ignored - the goblins made concessions to the player half-orcs & created roleplay around their participation in the camp. They were routed by other players - this was good. The threat of being routed by DMs is not so enticing.

Personally, punishment of "good" or "nice/cute/etc." monster races should be met harshly. The gift for good monsters should be removed to also remove the ambiguity player-side. While Jj's set up for the UD was often harsh and over-strict, monsters were encouraged to act a certain way and I think the slackening of those restrictions breeds cutebolds, house goblins and all other variation of utterly un-monster monsters.

EDIT: I changed my wording around player agency. I don't actively believe the DMs&Devs are suppressing player agency, but players have and can make those assumptions in reading forums or participating in discussions like this one.

I too like the idea of a CN radiant heart equivalent, but please don't mix dwarves with half orcs. Talk about a flavor fail of epic proportions. I get that Arelith is more casual about these sorts of things among the player base then I would prefer, and I have learned to live with that being the case, but the setting should reflect lore as much as possible IMO.

blood makes noise wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:36 pm

The GrumpyCat wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:50 pm

Yes but this wasn't in the wilderness, it was in a heavily NPC protected area.

But this is a bit of a knotty one- so let's look at it from several What If Scenarios

If the pcs in the camp had been halforcs, or humans, and not goblins - then I would have considered the attack poor roleplay. Not neccesarly against the rules, but not a great showing.

IF there had been no attack, and you guys had decided to try and set up base (hang out all the time, buy shops/homes ect) there- then we as DMs would have likely stepped in. The NPCs would. at best, have told you that whilst they might turn the other cheek to the occasional goblin passing through, living or spending time there would be dissalowed. At worst you'd have had groups of NPC mobs killing you off.

As it was a group of humans came in and anihalated a maurauding goblin tribe that was probably intent on conquring a halforcish hamlet. If anything the NPCs should have been throwing them a parade.

We had had ic discussions with the half orcs pcs and other inhabitants there about the possibility of using it as a staging post, but tbh it was one of several options we were considering as part of our plotting/engagement with other pcs etc and not the first choice but we were rp'ing our decisions ic rather than just making an ooc one.

To be clear, I think it's... not actually pretty reasonable that the NPCs -didn't- react to the 'attack' inthe settlment area in this case. NPCs shoud not be expected to protect monster races as is.
I'm not neccesarly stamping on the other aspects of your roleplay around it.

The quesiton about having a 'monsterious' settlment brings with it a few points, that must be considered.

1) Why hasn't said setlment been blown off the map? (Note that this to me is the easiest one to deal with - the same reason monster dungeons are always in place)
2) How do we ensure that, without the difficulties of travel/night time restrictions, the place doesn't become a constnat staging ground for endless PvP combats?
3) How do we ensure that it also doesn't become a land of puppy-gnolls and cuddlebolds?
4) How do we ensure that it itself isn't always constantly attacked by Team Good trying to do point 1?

It's an interesting idea -and I'm not even entirely against it - but I'd be a fool to say it didn't have it's problems.

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:00 pm I too like the idea of a CN radiant heart equivalent, but please don't mix dwarves with half orcs. Talk about a flavor fail of epic proportions. I get that Arelith is more casual about these sorts of things among the player base then I would prefer, and I have learned to live with that being the case, but the setting should reflect lore as much as possible IMO.

Disagree. Arelith's biggest failure is encouraging everyone to stay with their own kind and bash anyone who's an enemy. The thing that's great about PNP is you usually have mixed adventuring parties who have reason to doubt and even hate each other but team up for a goal, even if it's just to get rich plundering. Tense alliances are all but disallowed here except maybe when doing level 3 writs. You may say we don't follow lore but I think we follow that aspect of lore way too strictly and much more than the rulebook writers intended. Part of that problem is also that so many of us really just aren't "adventurers", we're city guards and other people with day jobs, but that's another discussion.

Where's the Mos Eisley trading port vibe where you and your hated race are both allowed to visit and you can trade insults but it doesn't immediately come to blows because that's bad for business? That's what would make a great CN settlement and it would mean dwarves and half orcs can both "belong" while disliking each other. D&D is built on this and there's tons of places like that in lore. The surface needs a spot with this vibe way more than it does another monoculture settlement where no outsiders are tolerated.

Epic Sacrifice wrote:Normal: -2 ECL applied to your character OR one of the following:

• Allow Gnoll, Duergar and Goblin characters to attain pirate tattoos and start in Sencliff, this reward requires an APPROVED application made to the DM team prior to taking the award.

Time to start making Goblin, Gnoll and Duegar characters with Normal award to start your surface monster dream. Yarrr!

....Or travel there with existing characters and try to build acceptance.

I am uncertain of DM policy whether Pirate Ink can be granted to a Monster PC without an award with sufficient RP, effort and Application. PROBABLY denied but who knows!

It's either that or be a homeless wanderer in a surface world that wants to kill you.

Unsure how you could pull off a "Nomadic Goblin Tribe" on the surface, carrying tents and what crafting stations you need with you at all times. Would require good OOC coordination to be around for each other, and would require rejecting the lifestyle of Writs in favor of the story you are trying to create. Think of Skall but on steroids, with no safe place anywhere in sight. The ultimate hardcore RP experience.

Gouge Away wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:56 pm

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:00 pm I too like the idea of a CN radiant heart equivalent, but please don't mix dwarves with half orcs. Talk about a flavor fail of epic proportions. I get that Arelith is more casual about these sorts of things among the player base then I would prefer, and I have learned to live with that being the case, but the setting should reflect lore as much as possible IMO.

Disagree. Arelith's biggest failure is encouraging everyone to stay with their own kind and bash anyone who's an enemy. The thing that's great about PNP is you usually have mixed adventuring parties who have reason to doubt and even hate each other but team up for a goal, even if it's just to get rich plundering. Tense alliances are all but disallowed here except maybe when doing level 3 writs. You may say we don't follow lore but I think we follow that aspect of lore way too strictly and much more than the rulebook writers intended. Part of that problem is also that so many of us really just aren't "adventurers", we're city guards and other people with day jobs, but that's another discussion.

Where's the Mos Eisley trading port vibe where you and your hated race are both allowed to visit and you can trade insults but it doesn't immediately come to blows because that's bad for business? That's what would make a great CN settlement and it would mean dwarves and half orcs can both "belong" while disliking each other. D&D is built on this and there's tons of places like that in lore. The surface needs a spot with this vibe way more than it does another monoculture settlement where no outsiders are tolerated.

I... kinda dissagree. For the most part tence alliances are OK (there may be some excpetions when we're talking Paladins and stuff- it's a very vauge term) but the problem we tend to have is what should be a 'tence allience' tends to end up as a huggle fest real quick.

Just to keep with the goblin theme a moment (I am not targetting anyone specifically in this, in case anyone is worried, I'm literally just using this as an easy example)
Moster surfacers treating with goblins in the sense of 'Ok. you're an increadibly dangerous and nasty individual who would probably murder me and everyone I love for half a bent copper. But I have to work with you for now because of xxx' is fine. If the roleplay is there showing distrust, fear, unease, disgust, ect.
The problem is that more often it tends to be
'Aww hello widdle goblin! Let's be friends! I'm not a big ol' racist! Come and live with me and have tea and cakes and crumpets!'

Sure, but there’s a world of difference between goblins and paladins hugging each other and dwarves and half-orc mercenaries finding tense alliances in a rough and tumble outpost.

The GrumpyCat wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:45 pm
To be clear, I think it's... not actually pretty reasonable that the NPCs -didn't- react to the 'attack' inthe settlment area in this case. NPCs shoud not be expected to protect monster races as is.
I'm not neccesarly stamping on the other aspects of your roleplay around it.

The quesiton about having a 'monsterious' settlment brings with it a few points, that must be considered.

1) Why hasn't said setlment been blown off the map? (Note that this to me is the easiest one to deal with - the same reason monster dungeons are always in place)
2) How do we ensure that, without the difficulties of travel/night time restrictions, the place doesn't become a constnat staging ground for endless PvP combats?
3) How do we ensure that it also doesn't become a land of puppy-gnolls and cuddlebolds?
4) How do we ensure that it itself isn't always constantly attacked by Team Good trying to do point 1?

It's an interesting idea -and I'm not even entirely against it - but I'd be a fool to say it didn't have it's problems.

I think we have to accept when we say "Monster races" are not welcome on the surface anywhere, this is largely based on the notion humans will wipe out a lot of races. "Half-orc" is only a problem they are not easily categorised in those terms ("Do humans want to kill them all? "Just their orc half"). I'd also say this makes things like Deurgar-Dwarf interaction, kobold-deep gnome conflict, or Elf-Drow conflict, more difficult.

1. The only reason Cordor/Anundor has not been blown off the map is OOC reasons that require a LN/LG/LE faction to be present in the newbie area. We can't have starting areas in perpetual civil war.

2. I'd say the halfblood camp (and most areas outside Myon, Anundor, Bendir Dale and Borg) are already staging areas for endless PvP. If monster races were allowed in the halfblood camp, it could well be too strong for the humans to wipe off completely.

3. A lot of options here. Members of these races could be given no rights, and so it is not a crime to attack them but it is a crime for them to attack. Could have a rule that all surface monsters are slaves of the leaders of the halforc/orc camp.

4. There is all sorts of restrictions (both IG, RP, mechanical and OOC) stopping the underdark races wiping out some surface towns.


I think Anundor should be remodelled as a citadel, where the underdark racial hierarchy is better explained through districts (monsters in the shanty towns, kobolds/deep gnome in merchant district, drow/deurgar in fancier abodes still). I'd like to see a similar massive city on the surface, perhaps Borg/Bendir Dale can be better linked to it, with labyrinths of sewers, tunnels, faction bases, extending way down to the underdark, possibly to Anundor itself.

Gouge Away wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:56 pm

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:00 pm I too like the idea of a CN radiant heart equivalent, but please don't mix dwarves with half orcs. Talk about a flavor fail of epic proportions. I get that Arelith is more casual about these sorts of things among the player base then I would prefer, and I have learned to live with that being the case, but the setting should reflect lore as much as possible IMO.

Where's the Mos Eisley trading port vibe where you and your hated race are both allowed to visit and you can trade insults but it doesn't immediately come to blows because that's bad for business? That's what would make a great CN settlement and it would mean dwarves and half orcs can both "belong" while disliking each other. D&D is built on this and there's tons of places like that in lore. The surface needs a spot with this vibe way more than it does another monoculture settlement where no outsiders are tolerated.

Honestly, I've been getting some of these vibes from the Shadovar Tradepost, having played a Surfacer recently.

I think you need NPC-enforced neutrality for these kinds of things to succeed, not settlement mechanics.

JoeKickAss wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:50 am

The GrumpyCat wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:45 pm
To be clear, I think it's... not actually pretty reasonable that the NPCs -didn't- react to the 'attack' inthe settlment area in this case. NPCs shoud not be expected to protect monster races as is.
I'm not neccesarly stamping on the other aspects of your roleplay around it.

The quesiton about having a 'monsterious' settlment brings with it a few points, that must be considered.

1) Why hasn't said setlment been blown off the map? (Note that this to me is the easiest one to deal with - the same reason monster dungeons are always in place)
2) How do we ensure that, without the difficulties of travel/night time restrictions, the place doesn't become a constnat staging ground for endless PvP combats?
3) How do we ensure that it also doesn't become a land of puppy-gnolls and cuddlebolds?
4) How do we ensure that it itself isn't always constantly attacked by Team Good trying to do point 1?

It's an interesting idea -and I'm not even entirely against it - but I'd be a fool to say it didn't have it's problems.

I think we have to accept when we say "Monster races" are not welcome on the surface anywhere, this is largely based on the notion humans will wipe out a lot of races. "Half-orc" is only a problem they are not easily categorised in those terms ("Do humans want to kill them all? "Just their orc half"). I'd also say this makes things like Deurgar-Dwarf interaction, kobold-deep gnome conflict, or Elf-Drow conflict, more difficult.

1. The only reason Cordor/Anundor has not been blown off the map is OOC reasons that require a LN/LG/LE faction to be present in the newbie area. We can't have starting areas in perpetual civil war.

2. I'd say the halfblood camp (and most areas outside Myon, Anundor, Bendir Dale and Borg) are already staging areas for endless PvP. If monster races were allowed in the halfblood camp, it could well be too strong for the humans to wipe off completely.

3. A lot of options here. Members of these races could be given no rights, and so it is not a crime to attack them but it is a crime for them to attack. Could have a rule that all surface monsters are slaves of the leaders of the halforc/orc camp.

4. There is all sorts of restrictions (both IG, RP, mechanical and OOC) stopping the underdark races wiping out some surface towns.


I think Anundor should be remodelled as a citadel, where the underdark racial hierarchy is better explained through districts (monsters in the shanty towns, kobolds/deep gnome in merchant district, drow/deurgar in fancier abodes still). I'd like to see a similar massive city on the surface, perhaps Borg/Bendir Dale can be better linked to it, with labyrinths of sewers, tunnels, faction bases, extending way down to the underdark, possibly to Anundor itself.

1, Honestly if this would be the case the isle would be completely monster free now, if the monster settlements are so easile blowed up and destroyed. Why a goblin fortress could exist so close to Cordor? or Blood moon fort? or any other monster collective. Cordor could genocide each and every one of them. But the case that is for the balance these powers should exist to a healthy and dynamic world to work or as we can see its lead to stagnation a lot. If no evil, whats the point of a paladin?
Tho the whole monsters on surface purely theoretical and no reason to discuss due the development plans (Irongron).

- - -
(not related to this post) a note from before: if the settlement is close to a writ area, not better to change the writ area instead remove an existant settlement?
- - -

About Andunor: + i dont think we (or DEV) wants that step back to an Grond-Udos type structure in the underdark. we suggested such many times but it seems not the way there either. this is a multicultural area which should bring tension, tho as one city is mostly supports the stagnation as well and cooperation districts wide, and anyone who wants do against the status quos, quickly met a city wide ban or lead a civil war. But i like the idea of how that city would be levelled, its optimistic and idealistic.

But Andunor is not a typical ortodox underdark city where the drows must be the leaders and goblins must be the underlings. This is a Trade Hub, no more, no less. if a drow wants respect have to fight for it, (rp for it, demand etc) and goblins can rise to high status also. i dont think that is a good way of turning back now and force traditional hierarchy in the Underdark server these days. And what would be the outcasts/humans in such city?

Gouge Away wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:56 pm
Where's the Mos Eisley trading port vibe

DMs clearly intended Sibayad to act as this, and tbh is probably a criminally underused settlement on surface. More PC shops, a more scummier tavern, perhaps with lax restrictions on who can own them, would maybe make its purpose clearer, as well as making PC leadership of the town more obvious.

mirvv wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:29 am Cordor could genocide each and every one of them.

When I started Cordor is described as a small city-state. After a few weeks it felt that Cordor were considered an imperium.

In an old server, it was entirely possible to have dynamic/nomadic bases. You move transitions not entire structures. Not sure how ships are implemented but presumably it is easier in Arelith since large ships could act as faction bases?