Quartertheft

[The Hazards of Love]

Does anyone actually recall an example of a fixture ransom that happened from quarterbreaking? Is there anything in the kudos thread?

I'm sure in all the years there's something, somewhere.

It has happened at least once I know of, but only when persistent complaints were made to DMs about it regarding a one-of-a-kind RP fixture from a DM event. Even then, it took forever for any kind of RP with the victim to eventually occur. Extracting RP from quarter thieves is like pulling teeth on the off chance something is done about it, which means it is likely never to happen organically (i.e., without DM intervention).

In 10+ years on the server, I've never seen thief RP done well, and rarely done at all. It's the same story every time you hear about it: thieves just wait until their target is offline to do anything, and said target is able to do nothing to investigate it due to utter lack of any clues.

This needs to change if "crime roleplay" is ever going to be accepted or meaningful at all for all parties involved. Sure, somehow forcing thieves to roleplay or reveal themselves is a gamble on the part of thieves, but so is any other action directly targeting another player. You shouldn't get to do anything for free just because "muh crime rp". Figure out a way to make it work in a way that doesn't leave your victim out to dry with no rp, no nothing, or don't do it. Crime rp is not worth defending or preserving if only one party consistently gets any kind of rp on it.

[mjones3]

Does anyone actually recall an example of a fixture ransom that happened from quarterbreaking? Is there anything in the kudos thread?

I remember a statue being stolen from a settlement, a letter or speedy was sent taunting that a specific group in the UD took it. Some small RP came from it but not much. Basically asking some stealthy people to have a look. But nothing else came from it because the fixture was likely stashed in someone else's quarters where most players can't get to it.

On another note I'm not as vehemently against quarter theft as most of the server. I've lost plenty of things to it over the years, even getting highly targeted back when I played a guard of Cordor and quarter breakers were much more common. If you lose something yeah it bites but its not the end of the world. I'm all for putting a restriction on taking RP items or anything that someone clearly put work into making (work past just spending crafting points and materials).

Quarter breaker builds aren't exactly common. Someone knows about them in game and a lot of RP can be gained from trying to find them. Searching about asking around in seedy parts for information, offering bounties, beating up people who you think might have information but refuse to share, enlisting the aid of settlements, accusing settlements of harboring them. Once a quarter breaker is known about by lots of people that's it for them. Anything goes missing they are getting targeted as the sole person responsible.

[Bunnysmack]

Some kind of mechanic that allowed the quarter's owner to do something akin to -investigate on the lease sign that controls the quarter might be nice. Allow for clues of who has recently come and gone from the quarter. I think the biggest issue is lack of any way to investigate/respond/retaliate. People don't like feeling helpless in a way that is dragged-out/ongoing.

[Dreams]

Restrict it to 1 quarterbreak per 1 RL month and watch the problem dissolve.

[Archnon]

Frankly what was done with pickpocket was absolutely perfect and should be copied here.
1.) Block breaking into rooms.
2.) Allow quarter breakers to receive 10k for breaking in drawn from owners bank account. 20k for Guild houses.
3.) Have this amount decline with repeated break-ins and have it decline substantially. Code it so breakers can only do one room a day.
4.) Any npc can spot a break in if in the vicinity. NPCs inside the quarter can provide a lot of information.
5.) Thieves have a nontrivial chance of leaving evidence on the door that shows up in the feed next time you open the door. This varies from the door was damages to some male hin footprints were found.

If you did 1-3 it would solve 95% of the problem. 4 and 5 would make it fun.

If the RP centers on recovering an object through theft for a plot, then there are still other ways with personal counters. For example, convincing someone to invite you in through RP and then stealing it or door humping. Both of these have direct counters and was to engagement while still leaving room for significant RP theft.

[Drogo Gyslain]

Restrict it to 1 quarterbreak per 1 RL month and watch the problem dissolve.

I actually like this suggestion.

Make QuarterCraking a determined event. I mean be real, even IRL you're not walking into your neighbors house every day and taking a spoon or plate, or a sock, until all their stuff is gone.

1 Real Life month might be a bit excessive, but maybe increase it to once per IG month at least (3 day coolsown.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Doesn't it all violate the 'Be Nice' rule?

Be Nice Rule reflects around OOC griefing. It doesn't mean all players are going to have to be nice to one another.
The theft rule more covers this, unless the repeated, deliberate targeting of a particular player's fixtures is done for an OOC reason.

what is nice about being RPlessly stolen from while you're logged out and being left with no idea who did it?

This makes quartertheft look absolutely a breach of the Be Nice rule.

Does anyone actually recall an example of a fixture ransom that happened from quarterbreaking? Is there anything in the kudos thread?

I'm sure in all the years there's something, somewhere.

If we have to spend hours digging for an example of where quartertheft was a net positive, then it means its more a problem than a necessity.

DMs "encouraging" players to leave clues or make theft interactive rings hollow. Is this just too difficult to police? Are they not privileged to speak against quartertheft? Do they actually believe it adds roleplaying benefit?

This is such a weird issue.

[DM Rex]

DMs "encouraging" players to leave clues or make theft interactive rings hollow. Is this just too difficult to police? Are they not privileged to speak against quartertheft? Do they actually believe it adds roleplaying benefit?

Nothing is 'too difficult' to police. In fact we do look into instances of theft to make sure that there is some roleplay surrounding it in some way.
Yes, there have been instances where thieves have interacted with their targets and actually had some roleplay come from it. It's not nearly as often as it should be, and we address instances where they are not making any effort on roleplay.

We understand that theft is not merely a book, fixture, magical bag, or even a sentimental item. But the process of losing any object can still put players off, but we have the options of theft with roleplay or no theft at all. And as per our rules layout and the server structure, theft is permitted and roleplay is a part of it.

[Gouge Away]

Frankly what was done with pickpocket was absolutely perfect and should be copied here.
1.) Block breaking into rooms.
2.) Allow quarter breakers to receive 10k for breaking in drawn from owners bank account. 20k for Guild houses.
etc

I want to be able to break into rooms to spy on meetings, nose around, wait in ambush, read message boards, leave an ominous note, leave a valuable gift because I'm a CG agent of benevolent chaos, etc etc. Even if it's just for the thrill of being somewhere you shouldn't.

Taking a bit of gold isn't interesting. Taking someone's fixtures isn't interesting. Stealing extremely valuable items from chests would be cool but it's too abusable to allow if lockpicking quarters was more common. I think chests and fixtures should be inaccessible to trespassers but trespassing for all the RP purposes above should be a lot more possible and possible for characters who are built like normal rogues and don't have a specific freak build. Make it take a lot of effort and not something you can do every day, sure, but it should be possible, there's just so much missed opportunity there.

[Glowing Mushroom]

I would like to see Roleplay become a greater requirement when it comes to theft.

I've had things stolen from me - Items or fixtures - Or even destroyed, with absolutely nothing to go on. No RP, no notes left behind, nothing to -investigate. Just the void of items or objects that had real value to RP, and yet were taken without RP.

Yes, it's weird to require RP when it comes to theft. But this is a heavy-RP server, where we must stay in character at all times. It's not real life, and we are here to RP with each other. If a player is going to enact something as significant as theft or destruction in these regards, then Roleplaying should be required. I do not find it fitting that someone could simply get away with it if it's only done every so often, and therefore flies under the griefing radar.

Leaving some type of communication behind with a motive or an anonymous clue would greatly improve attitudes towards theft/fixture destruction. There's nothing rewarding about it when it occurs and there's also nothing to go on to create RP. It does not create content, it only creates frustration for the person whom has had things stolen.

In contrast, I have also had things taken from me, or fixtures destroyed, but with RP left behind. And this in turn creates a chain of events, follow-up, interactions, RP, and content. It's amazing how exciting the difference is. Losing items of fixtures can actually become a more exciting experience when the player who committed the crime goes out of their way to leave RP behind. When they don't, it's just a loss and a detriment to what could have otherwise been RP.

Maybe I'm just ranting and RP is actually required if you're going to steal/destroy something. If it is, perhaps it's not a great enough of a requirement, as I feel like most times people will not leave RP behind. But now I'm going in circles with myself.

The TL:DR for me is that if theft/destruction is going to take place, RP should be required to be left behind.

[thimblegiant]

I wonder about the possibility of countering this by implementing ways to catch thieves. For example, a script could be put in place that records every instance of a break in. Rangers and/or diviners can use their abilities to discern meaningful clues about the identity and/or location of the burglar. No one says they have to be epic rangers or diviners, either.

The script could also be used to better help DMs monitor every instance of quarterbreaking much more easily, if that would be helpful.

There could be a craftable one-use item that can be applied to any other item and scry out its location, showing the user either the person who is carrying it, the fixture that is storing it, or the NPC merchant who has it, or PC shop that has it. If the person is not logged on then the item can be used again, vanishing only once it successfully locates the item.

I think these are all excellent suggestions to keep engagement possible between thief and victim, but doing this:

Stolen items can be uniquely tagged so that NPC merchants they are sold to keep them between resets.

would provide some path for the victim to keep a watch out for a lost item among the settlements. The victim might also post a notice on a board, which in turn a third player may find the stolen item first and decide to ransom it back. It also would become an easy outlet for the thief to "give back" the item if they were feeling particularly cowardly and wanted to walk away if the item they stole had sentimental value.

[Security_Blanket]

The sad fact remains that as long as something can be exploited, it will be. This was my very concern when siege weapons were introduced. What is the point of going to so much work to create something when somebody can/will simply make off with it at the click of a button? If it is an issue then I think it won't be resolved until the current rules are revised. Considering how many times I've heard someone cite Rule 4, and after reading Rule 4 I suggest breaking that up into a few different rules for clarity. People shouldn't have to be repeatedly told to "Be Nice" but apparently they have to be, it's a classic story of a few bad apples ruining the bunch.

[Diegovog]

Being stolen from sucks, but we need "crime." It's valid roleplay and can be very fun for everyone.
At the moment, crime really doesn't happen. Oh sure, every once in awhile some newbie loses a stack of coal from their chest, but almost anyone who establishes themselves cranks their door security up to 127 and it never happens again. Very few builds can even (theoretically) reach 127 open locks/disable traps/search and even then they need max level bard songs to do it (which is garbage).

If anything, door/chest security needs to be lowered so that way a criminal can actually make burglary feasible. Note: I did not say "adventurer." I don't think a run-of-the-mill "I-kill-dragons-when-I-feel-like-it" character should be able to quarter-break max security with ease. I'm talking "I-sacrificed-my-playability-to-be-a-professional-criminal" character here. Someone with nothing but skill focuses and epic skill focuses, maxed out gear, and buffs. It's ironic and crappy that right now a rogue-type burglar is quite literally the worst option to be a burglar, I know, I've made one and it can just barely reach 127 in all three skills with every skill-enhancing feat in the game possible and even that is only theoretical because there isn't enough buffs/gear to make it feasible.

The only other thing that needs to change is in the theft rules in that 1 item means 1 item. If I finesse your lock and pop your chest open and see 87 ingots of adamantine, I'm allowed to take 1 of them, not the whole stack. Exclusions would be made in the cases of something like ammunition stacks or something like that, but the idea that someone can take 100 ingots of adamantine is ludicrous to me.

I agree, we have no criminal RP as it is. And quarterbreaking is the closest thing we have to it.
It's just something that can be abused by the wrong people, which sucks.

[DM Rex]

I bite my tongue in case someone informs me otherwise, but the following:

I think these are all excellent suggestions to keep engagement possible between thief and victim, but doing this:

Stolen items can be uniquely tagged so that NPC merchants they are sold to keep them between resets.

would provide some path for the victim to keep a watch out for a lost item among the settlements. The victim might also post a notice on a board, which in turn a third player may find the stolen item first and decide to ransom it back. It also would become an easy outlet for the thief to "give back" the item if they were feeling particularly cowardly and wanted to walk away if the item they stole had sentimental value.

Is not possible for us to code/implement.

Reason(s) why:
Shop inventories presently de-spawn when characters are not in an area. This would have to be done away with. And couldn't persist through resets, so the victim would have to be aware an item was taken and find the corresponding merchant who it was sold to, all assuming a reset/crash has not happened.
Effectively this would be additional chest/persistent inventory maintenance with no(?) expiration. It would somehow have to be instanced to the particular character that owns the quarter, but this doesn't help if a quarter is shared. (Guildhouses as an example) This also would have to somehow take into consideration that quarters can be bought and sold as often or as little as possible.

Would then the tag persist on the initial owner only? If it's up for sale, does it still tag to that current owner? If the character has rolled and the quarter was being used by someone else in the meantime, does that mean they're just out of luck?
These would be a lot of questions to have to consider when implementing a system as suggested above.

But what we do presently have is an in depth logging system to monitor what is taken from players. As is still the case.

[The GrumpyCat]

I realize this will be very controvertial but I still don't quite get the problem with the possiblity of loosing fixtures occasionally.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that someone should be able to come into someones house and steal every single item there. But loosing the occasioanl fixture isn't a big deal.

Yeah, some fixtures may be a few hours work to remake. So?

Yeah some fixtures may have sentimental value. In which case, if you're absolutly hell bent against even the chance of loosing it - copy the description into a word document and remake it if it's removed.

'But no rp ever comes from stealing these items!'

Correction - you do not know if rp ever comes to YOU. It may come to others, isn't that worth something?

Fixture stealing is annoying at worst, but unless taken to ridiculous extremes it's rarely game breaking.

Sometimes I kinda get the feeling from some folk (certainly not all!! Probably only a minority I hope!) have an odd definition of RP.
That being
RP = When something good or neutral happens to my character
Not RP = When something Bad happens to my character. Obviously then the person is a Griefer and a Horrible Person who Hates me and my faction OOC.

Again I'm not and will never argue that stealing peoples stuff (especialy items from storage) should be easy. Certainly not. But I think having more ways to mechanically effect other pcs, even if it isn't always positive, is not a bad thing. Loosing - sometimes loosing badly, pointlesy is... part of the game. And it is a game. Let it ground you. Smile and flow with it and try to make your own rp out of it, and often with these things it does also come down to what rp you want to make out of it.

For example

Thief Gets into Quarters and Steals pricless Picture and leaves No RP or Clue and just Sells it
Player Response: Bob the noble runs around trying to talk to the guard, talking to others - working out if other things have been stolen. He starts a neighbourhood watch scheme. He tries to put together clues. He seeks out a new painting to put in it's place ect...

Example 2
Thief steals pricless picture, hides it in his home, then speedies the owner 'Bob - you must pay me fifty thousand gold, and give me information on the Chancellor. Put this gold into this account... and drop the none on a notice board by the temple. Do within three tendays, and your picture will be returned'
Player Response: BOTHER OFF I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING FOR YOU!

If we want to absolutly utterly remove any chance at all in any way of player theft, then the same argument could be put to PvP. Some PvP is lame, is awful, is dumb. And that's loosing your characters life... something that in argument should be far more serious. Does that mean we should prevent any pvp at all? Or should it bust mean that we should
*Limit the damage bad pvp can do (as with theft)
*Report bad PvP
*Accept that some PvP will be fun and meaningful and narrative and some will be bad
*And either way, work to make good rp out of that when we can.

The same should be true of quarter theft
*Limit the damage
*If someone is doing it a lot (you're getting repeated thefts, or thefts over the one item per ooc day limit) report it.
*Accept that sometimes you'll just loose things for no reason. This is irritating but so it goes.
*Work to make good rp out of it, even if no rp is easily offered.

[AstralUniverse]

Yeah, some fixtures may be a few hours work to remake. So?

Its not really about that.

Some fixtures were made by characters who already rolled which were dear to my character and to me (to some degree, its just a game). It would be silly (and borderline cheating) to just screenshot their description and make a new one when it's stolen. The maker of the fixture is already dead.

To present the other side of that coin tho, why would anyone steal a statue or a painting with no intention to RP with it later somewhere somehow. While it does not give the victim RP (which is bad, its not good) at least it gives the fixture a future, still. (which is actually also another reason why making a new one with the same description would be silly, in fact)

[SkipiusEsq]

I realize this will be very controvertial but I still don't quite get the problem with the possiblity of loosing fixtures occasionally.
Yeah, some fixtures may be a few hours work to remake. So?

If what we are talking about are simple fixtures, even complicated ones, that my character made, I agree completely. It is a loss of in game time. I can use it to roleplay even if the thief chose not to. But see below as to why this is not really a solution.

Yeah some fixtures may have sentimental value. In which case, if you're absolutly hell bent against even the chance of loosing it - copy the description into a word document and remake it if it's removed.

But this is the issue. If the idea is to be immersive, and the idea is to RP things, then something created by someone else for me, especially a piece of art or statute, simply having the same thing made by an artist and then putting in the same description doesn't fit with the concept of the server. It is effectively a counterfeit while the real piece of art, the art that has value, is out their in the world.

Thief Gets into Quarters and Steals pricless Picture and leaves No RP or Clue and just Sells it
Player Response: Bob the noble runs around trying to talk to the guard, talking to others - working out if other things have been stolen. He starts a neighbourhood watch scheme. He tries to put together clues. He seeks out a new painting to put in it's place ect...

To complete this thought ... and then nothing happens. There is no NPC guard that talks back to him. No one saw anything. The neighborhood has no interest in doing anything because it doesn't fit with what they are trying to do at the time so they ignore it. My character talks at a bunch of NPCs who stare at him and PCs who couldn't care less. Even if the occasional PC does something, one-sided RP gets old and boring real fast. With no real chance to capture the thief or get the item back, the RP just fizzles out.

Thief steals pricless picture, hides it in his home, then speedies the owner 'Bob - you must pay me fifty thousand gold, and give me information on the Chancellor. Put this gold into this account... and drop the none on a notice board by the temple. Do within three tendays, and your picture will be returned'

If this kind of RP was required in all instances (or some variant of it) then I'd say no other changes needed. It creates a story, RP that is interactive. You can decide if you show up with just the gold or if you have a buddy hiding in the wings in stealth. And then the thief can use True Sight and run away seeing the ambush. It can create a story for everyone.

If we want to absolutely utterly remove any chance at all in any way of player theft, then the same argument could be put to PvP. Some PvP is lame, is awful, is dumb. And that's loosing your characters life... something that in argument should be far more serious. Does that mean we should prevent any pvp at all? Or should it bust mean that we should
*Limit the damage bad pvp can do (as with theft)
*Report bad PvP
*Accept that some PvP will be fun and meaningful and narrative and some will be bad
*And either way, work to make good rp out of that when we can.

This is not a good analogy. In PvP, you know at least a description of the person who actually killed you. You can tell others who are likely going to be more interested in getting revenge and RPing it because there is a chance for actual RP on the other side. Also, let's be honest, death has little consequences in the game itself. You can log off for 2 hours and come back and all is as it was before. Of course, if the PvP was done well, then you should be treating it as more than a simple "time out" and RP it. But from a pure mechanics side, after about 2 hours, you are in the same boat as before only with a story. Untrue of theft, especially if a highly-priced or valued item is stolen. Plus, it is much easier to make reports (as far as I understand) on PvP. I can use the 2 hour death-sickness time to write a report to the DMs and give OOC information for them to look into the situation. With quarter theft, I may not even know WHEN something happened and certainly won't know WHO did it. I suspect that makes the job of the DMs significantly more difficult.

POSSIBLE SOLLUTION

I propose a different, albeit still not perfect analogy. Assassins are a thing on the server. I have had my character assassinated and the assassin did a great job of RPing the event. The event impacted my character, which got his friends involved to help him try to get over the fear it caused him. It was a short, but very fun, event. Why? I propose it is because Assassins require obtaining DM permission first. The DMs can decide - Is this someone who is going to create RP out of being an Assassin so that the target enjoys the experience even if they end up "losing" the PvP?

Why not do the same thing for quarterbreakers? The DMs can vet if the quarterbreaker is someone that will create RP out of the interaction, avoiding most of the issues we are talking about. If a report of theft is made, the DMs have a short list of people who could actually have been the culprit. They can then choose whether to create a small story out of it (e.g., being an NPC guard who saw something) or dealing with the issue OOC just as if any other rule were broken.

[thimblegiant]

This is not a good analogy. In PvP, you know at least a description of the person who actually killed you. You can tell others who are likely going to be more interested in getting revenge and RPing it because there is a chance for actual RP on the other side.

This goes back to a suggestion made earlier in the thread where rangers or similar may be able to find something about the break-in.

DM Rex noted that persistent tags would be difficult (if not impossible) to implement on items, but is there a way for a thief to always leave a clue behind (besides non-existent NPC's)? Tracks or some other indicator. Maybe not complete info, but something to fuel the imagination and motivate the victim?

Gone without a trace simply isn't fun.

[The GrumpyCat]

The idea of leaving clues and such is interesting, but I will point out (and this isn't neccesarly me arguing against it, this is me pointing out a flaw that will happen...)

If we leave vauge clues - people will accuse that they are too vauge.

If we leave specific clues 'It was Bob who did this' then playing a thief character may (in fact likely will) result in some... heavy over reactions in the character base. Which will either put more carful, roleplay centric thief players are put off by the idea. It will likely mean that the onese who do this will be people who don't mind pvp as much, but want to just cause chaos for chaos's sake and whilst those people can be great rpers they arn't... always.

The DM idea is interesting, my concern is that... I wouldn't be suprised if there was a large difference in what people would consider 'appropriate' amounts of rp.

E.g. - is a note saying, 'Thank you for your Donation - The Whisper King' - sufficent?
Would it need to be a whole massive plot?
Would it be neccesary you have opportunity to get it back?
Wherever we put the bar, I'd have concerns it would either entirely stifle thief/espianage rp, or it would be so lax as people would feel it might as well not be there.

[Zavandar]

RP = When something good or neutral happens to my character
Not RP = When something Bad happens to my character. Obviously then the person is a Griefer and a Horrible Person who Hates me and my faction OOC.

I (and I doubt I am alone in this) consider it to be rp when I get to interact

Quarterthieves don't interact. It's why you are expected to rp before pvp. imagine how angry people would be if assassins could attack you without rp. "Great interaction", people would say sarcastically. Go figure, that's what people say when they are victims of quartertheft.

Because that's rp. Interaction.

Imagine if you were playing a game of pnp. You come to the table and another player goes "oh by the way I stole your armor after last session," and you look to the dm and they go "yeah I encouraged them to leave a note but they didnt feel like it".

[Nitro]

I think it's crazy that the server has gone as long as it has without codifying less abstract rules for theft to match the ones for PvP. The notion that you need to interact with someone to administer the minor setback of a small XP loss that is death, but not to steal millions of GP worth of stuff in a single stack or literally irreplaceable fixtures is incredibly alien to me.

EDIT: Also everything Zavandar said.

[Amnesy]

I wonder

if by having a custom fixture could be a small step towards improvement,
-craftable by everyone from the rest menu
-1x1
-not stackable
-0 weight
-no collision
-can't be moved, despawned once placed
-despawns on its own with RL time limit, i.e. 72h

that would serve as a 'trace of burglary/theft' which usage could be encouraged. Potentially to leave small hints where there is no board or chest to leave a 'piece of paper' with it around.

I know there is no simple way to make theft fair or interesting.

Another idea for fixtures would be to make a craftable enhancement/seal (possibly employing T1 runic items as one of the ingredients and with each seal for each craftable type of fixtures):
-Once used on a fixture it makes it unbreakable and not-interactable with RL time limit, i.e. 7 days.
To counter it, a similar 'item' could be craftable to remove the seal, perhaps using different ingredients yet still of similar value and rarity as the seal making ones (to move it or steal it).

This would add that the object is not secure, but there is a certain investment required to steal a warded fixture.

[strong yeet]

It's funny how there's so much nail-biting and pearl-clutching over this ever-present illusion called "thief RP."

I've played this server for about five and a half years, and I've never seen any. I have seen a fair few items just go missing one day, though. Disarm and pickpocket were both changed; it's time for quartertheft to go too. Losing items on Arelith isn't a system that particularly needs to be facilitated, so long as there's a line against griefers that edges more towards blurry than stark -- which is something I don't see going away any time soon, or find unequivocally a bad thing.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

I don't think quarter break-in should be like PvP. I'd rather not see the RP before the theft, I'd rather it happen after. Or scrap that entire notion entirely, and bring it closer to how PvP works by removing quarter lockpicking, so thieves need to stealth in with their target when the door opens. So there's a chance for counterplay. Then it's 100% my fault if I lose something. And thieves will have to scout out their victims ahead of time and figure out if their victim is a mage, if they cast true seeing, if they cast amplify, etc.

I don't think quarter break-ins are required for crime RP. There's tons of sketchy stuff people can do. And focusing on this one specific thing isn't going to create the scene for this sort of thing. I think how quickly evil gets shut out of stories is probably a larger hamper to crime RP. The pariah mechanic has done a LOT of damage. Pickpockets and thieves who are caught are made pariah, so all of their properties are stripped. So where are thieves supposed to go and live?

Honestly I think it's sort of weird that Andunor is more no-go than Hell, that people who are pushed out of owning settlement properties (the vast majority of Surface properties) are told they can go and get a vault in Hell. Andunor is supposed to be the Skullport of the server, but, it's really not, because of all of the rules in place to try and discourage mixing. To me, it'd make a lot more sense if surface criminals were able to get property in Andunor. But you can't, because you need an outcast tag. Which means you can't be a surface criminal anymore. We've been told for months now that there's going to be solutions for this in the new city, so, I'm eagerly awaiting what the new city will bring.

But with that said, I wish people would try to use fences more to sell stolen goods. I even made a fence character. I've been less active, a mix of feeling burnt out and waiting for the new city along with holiday time stuff. But if you need a fence just let me know and I'll hop in-game.

[Nekonecro]

I'm going to echo the sentiment of the issue not being the loss of the item but the complete lack of evidence and non-manditory need for the thief to give clues, thus leaving the victim with no way to respond.

Speaking from my own personal experience on Zathlan, I had a "high value" RP fixture stolen from his quarter. There was no evidence left behind. No notes, no footprints, no means to investigate from the crime scene.
I had Zathlan start by putting a message across the settlements asking for clues or any form of help. After about a week or so I heard nothing.

So I sent a message to the DMs asking for any help in the matter (if the theft was a legitimate one? had it been taken for a DM plot? is there any clues they could give me to facilitate RP?) While it was confirmed that it was a legitimate theft by a player I was told merely to wait and see what the thief will do/respond with.

Almost a week later I got an OOC message from the thief player saying that they'll contact me with RP in game soon.
Then nearly a whole month passed.

I kept the team updated however I only seemed to get interaction shortly after I sent a report in and only on an OOC level, funny enough usually a few hours after I sent the report in.

Thankfully I was able to broker a deal and get the item back but honestly that is a very and I mean VERY rare outcome.
While the RP was enjoyable for what little I got out of it, it felt more like an OOC transaction than a RP story.
Honestly I felt like if I was not pestering the DMs on the lack of interaction I was getting then I would of received no RP out of it at all.

It is currently far too easy as a thief to get away with quarter theft once you are able to get past the wall of the 127 DC quarter lock.
All you have to do is keep your mouth shut.

TLDR: Can live with getting stolen from, sucks on the lack of things one can work with to investigate. 90% of quarter thefts go unsolved due to complete lack of evidence.