Arelith

The GrumpyCat wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:04 pm ... So um... disclaimer this may be a really dumb idea, and it's not one I'm even that keen on, but it did occur as an option...

What about restricting the crafting of the stones to their various classes? E.g. Only paladins can craft the Dusky Rose stone?

Just throwing it out as an idea.

I like it. it gives encouragement of different class and crafting skill combos that might not necessarily be expected. Or at least gives someone in a sea of crafters of the same discipline a niche.

In fact more stuff like that added in future to provide different economic niches honestly is a good idea.

About the class restrictions, could maybe the pally-specific (AC) stone be extended to blackguards? Asking because evil divine dips are already at a severe disadvantage compared to paladin dips (with craftable equipment, divine wands, etc.), especially if they lack UMD. The stones are not a massive advantage, but they will widen the gap even more if only one "side" will be able to use them.

They're REALLY pretty.
I like them because they look nice.

Looking forward to buffing stats that are already maxed just because it looks cool.

JubJub wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:35 pm

AstralUniverse wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:41 am These class restrictions are strange.

Is Dusty Rose now supposed to encourage 2h paladins? If so, why not open it for blackguards as well? I see no thematic relation between the Dusty Rose Ioun Stone and the paladin class and it seems purely based on mechanical interest in making 2h paladins a little bit more appealing.

UMD is still a very common skill among most builds, and if not, then they'll probably have at least 1 class that can use an Ioun Stone, so they'll adjust their gear accordingly and this DOES kill skleens economy anyway so I really think we should remove these class restrictions entirely at this point and make the items much harder to make. Add a rare gem like Star Sapphire or Rogue Stone and it gets interesting.

It would totally make the stones useless to add something like Star Saphire or rogue stone. The stones would be so expensive many would simply stick with skleens. You could buy alot of skleens for the price of one Star Saphire.

Just about nothing recipe-wise is going to make an infinite stone useless. I like that IG raised the DC to 42. Its a step in the right direction and I still hope to see a rare ingredient added in too. Because currently it is skleens that are going to be useless.

with lore meta, there are lots of characters that don't go for UMD. Actaully most casters do not have UMD (can can benefit from skleen) and there are plenty of martials that do potion life. Many mundanes that do go for UMD dont do so until epics, and guess what? I mostly want skleens before epics.

*EDIT*

I honestly do not think adjusting the DC was even necessary. Most builds are not having pre epic UMD, and many do not at all. I mean it doesn't effect me either way as I will still be using skleens.

malcolm_mountainslayer wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:52 am with lore meta, there are lots of characters that don't go for UMD. Actaully most casters do not have UMD (can can benefit from skleen) and there are plenty of martials that do potion life. Many mundanes that do go for UMD dont do so until epics, and guess what? I mostly want skleens before epics.

*EDIT*

I honestly do not think adjusting the DC was even necessary. Most builds are not having pre epic UMD, and many do not at all. I mean it doesn't effect me either way as I will still be using skleens.

Agreed. I'm also not for having to slave away or grind for something someone just mass produced at low dc with no rare ingredients because I didn't "jump on it" right when it was released.

DC 42 may be a bit high, but mostly because it's Art Crafting which I believe is probably the most rare crafting job that anyone will heavily invest into beyond mid-20s in ranks, behind only herbalism, simply because it gives minimal QOL returns to the investor (like monks usually are tailors to repair all their stuff and make their own gear, etc).

This will at least artificially maintain the skleen market since it may not be easy to track down anyone with art over 33 or so ranks.

I don't really know why anyone cares about the skleen market. It's not like alchemy doesn't have tons of other high-value consumables and materials that can be sold for thousands, or even tens of thousands, of gold already.

PC Skleen market was fairly reduced/nullified by a certain FOIG NPC that undercut most prices anyway.

LichBait wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:03 pm PC Skleen market was fairly reduced/nullified by a certain FOIG NPC that undercut most prices anyway.

Multiple FOIG

I admit.
I've never bought/made/used skleens regularly in the whole time I've played here.

LichBait wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:03 pm PC Skleen market was fairly reduced/nullified by a certain FOIG NPC that undercut most prices anyway.

galaxy brain: buy from the NPC, flip at PC shop prices anyways

spoilers this is what i did with barkskin pots, +10 heal kits, shield pots, skleens, and temp essences and i made millions of gold off it, god bless the hub.

The GrumpyCat wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:04 pm What about restricting the crafting of the stones to their various classes? E.g. Only paladins can craft the Dusky Rose stone?

I'm a fan of that - it makes them a bit more rare.

On another note, rather than a rare ingredient, I'd like to see the Crafting Points increase (say from 108 to 250). This encourages art crafters who are dedicated.

If we want to make them more expensive, add a ruby / emerald / diamond instead of the gem dust.

TimeAdept wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:15 am

LichBait wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:03 pm PC Skleen market was fairly reduced/nullified by a certain FOIG NPC that undercut most prices anyway.

galaxy brain: buy from the NPC, flip at PC shop prices anyways

spoilers this is what i did with barkskin pots, +10 heal kits, shield pots, skleens, and temp essences and i made millions of gold off it, god bless the hub.

I'm guessing this is what's actually going on with the concern over the skleen 'market.'

Ok so! Going off the wiki I THINK that all the old crystal recipes have now been replaced either by Quartz Crystal or Obsidian.

Guys? I've got a favour to ask. If you come across any recipe that does call for a 'Crystal' please let me know so I can fix it. Going off the wiki it's fine - but I'm not hugely willing to plough manually though the trade book. So as I say - please just let me know if/when you come across them (hopefully you won't.)

The GrumpyCat wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:36 pm Ok so! Going off the wiki I THINK that all the old crystal recipes have now been replaced either by Quartz Crystal or Obsidian.

Guys? I've got a favour to ask. If you come across any recipe that does call for a 'Crystal' please let me know so I can fix it. Going off the wiki it's fine - but I'm not hugely willing to plough manually though the trade book. So as I say - please just let me know if/when you come across them (hopefully you won't.)

Might need to double check that. Quartz Crystal and Crystal were already two different items.

Quartz Crystal can be mined I think, but the regular crystal can only be found or bought.

Unless obsidian is now going to be a mineable vein?

Edit: oooooops I'm pretty sure I misread you there Grumpy. Nevermind. My mistake!

NP. Obsidian is a minable resource btw.

Skibbles wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:31 pm

TimeAdept wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:15 am

LichBait wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:03 pm PC Skleen market was fairly reduced/nullified by a certain FOIG NPC that undercut most prices anyway.

galaxy brain: buy from the NPC, flip at PC shop prices anyways

spoilers this is what i did with barkskin pots, +10 heal kits, shield pots, skleens, and temp essences and i made millions of gold off it, god bless the hub.

I'm guessing this is what's actually going on with the concern over the skleen 'market.'

I can also assure you there's lots of gold to be made making and selling all those items from scratch if you've got the right people on hand. Skleens are simple enough alone to mass produce if you've got brew potion for added yield and it makes it easy to undercut the resellers.

Quidix wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:10 pm I'm a fan of that - it makes them a bit more rare.

On second thought, I'd avoid making them class-specific. There are too many class-locked recipes already, and it just makes Loremaster too good for artist crafting.

Changing CP/inputs is still fair game I think.

I'm stoked to see real Ioun stones in the server. The issue I have with how Ioun stones are implemented has nothing to do with the skleen market.

UMD 15 is meaningless as it's the same de-facto/optimal investment for wands. Make it like 20-25 so there's value in going higher and accessing other things besides specific pieces of gear. Otherwise it's just, well, anyone who "can" take UMD takes 15 and can use everything useful. So why even have the UMD as a skill investment and just give it as a feat or something based on classes.

Secondly, IF they can all be used concurrently, i.e. each Ioun stone activated at the same time, then that's just silly. Do we really need +2 to all stats and +1 AC as a use/day on top of basin and zoo's? If we're concerned with power creep we should limit to one skleen or Ioun stone active at a time.

You could very easily add in a +1 Ioun stone variant with a 15 UMD check, a +2 at a higher UMD say 20-25 and limit them to one active at a time. This would make them very useful but not just silly.

If I'm mistaken in that you can have several Ioun stones active concurrently, then please ignore that bit.

Can only have one active at a time.

I loved the ioun stones. Not a fan of the UMD. If skleens/ioun stones are made mostly for mundanes who can enjoy their only long term buff, then they will fall short of the UMD unless rogue/bard dip. Also feels awkward paladins having the shield AC ioun stones as it's mostly useful for monks and dual wielders.

Jordenk wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:25 pm UMD 15 is meaningless as it's the same de-facto/optimal investment for wands.

After the doubling of the crafting DC it doesn't seem like UMD should further gate the use of the stone.

I don't know much about the actual lore of these things but it seems to me they aren't all so wildly different from one another that it requires special training to use one when you may already know how to use at least two or three depending on your multiclass.

Jordenk wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:25 pm If I'm mistaken in that you can have several Ioun stones active concurrently, then please ignore that bit.

I just tried this in game right now to double check, but you definitely cannot have more than one ioun stone active at once.

If you have seen it - it's probably that you saw someone with epic mage armor and an ioun stone since they both have the same effect.

Diegovog wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:11 am Can only have one active at a time.

I loved the ioun stones. Not a fan of the UMD. If skleens/ioun stones are made mostly for mundanes who can enjoy their only long term buff, then they will fall short of the UMD unless rogue/bard dip. Also feels awkward paladins having the shield AC ioun stones as it's mostly useful for monks and dual wielders.

Agree on that as well. Also for me personally I'm not sure I'd want to gear with it in mind for my primary stat as I'd rather not have it require a vfx to be at cap or lose its use on a server transition. I could have a bunch of spares or I could just gear where I don't have to worry about it on the primary stat. To me at least I think it shows its value on a secondary stat you can't afford to gear to max where it is a nice thing to have.

Skibbles wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:10 am

Jordenk wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:25 pm UMD 15 is meaningless as it's the same de-facto/optimal investment for wands.

After the doubling of the crafting DC it doesn't seem like UMD should further gate the use of the stone.

I don't know much about the actual lore of these things but it seems to me they aren't all so wildly different from one another that it requires special training to use one when you may already know how to use at least two or three depending on your multiclass.

Jordenk wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:25 pm If I'm mistaken in that you can have several Ioun stones active concurrently, then please ignore that bit.

I just tried this in game right now to double check, but you definitely cannot have more than one ioun stone active at once.

If you have seen it - it's probably that you saw someone with epic mage armor and an ioun stone since they both have the same effect.

Yah that makes sense. Given they're only usable 1 at a time then we should just drop the UMD. It's weird that Paladin is the only one that gets the dusty rose. Does LG somehow only deserve the AC? Why not BG also as an evil counterpart?

What I don't get is... why are the ioun stones only 1/day? I think they would be more in-lore and such to have them infinite use/day. Not like you can stack them, but being able to switch between what stone you're using could be useful, and would allow for 'carrying' over the stone between servers.

The end result of almost every single one of these ioun stones (regardless of what stat) is +2 saves (except in the most MAD of characters) except for people already at the save cap.