Arelith

I do not see where the excitement is coming from.
Denying the cast would have been so. much. worse.

Just get an extra pouch so that your mage never gets stranded without the ability to cast lvl 7+ spells when their pouch accidentally breaks...

...lt's the big brain thing to do

-XXX- wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:45 pm I do not see where the excitement is coming from.
Denying the cast would have been so. much. worse.

Just get an extra pouch so that your mage never gets stranded without the ability to cast lvl 7+ spells when their pouch accidentally breaks...

...lt's the big brain thing to do

Usually if I tear a pouch it's because I was being lazy and lost it to some really trivial cast. That's why it'd be handy, since for pvp it's not a concern since I'm paying full attention then.

...if you see it coming
...and happen to have noticed/remembered that the pouch is not at max charges
...and have the time to prepare


Anyway, stopping the cast is worse than the pouch breaking. It'd heavily incentivize mages to become that one guy who reloads the magazine after every single shot in FPS games. Pouches aren't expensive, why is it such a problem to pack an extra few?

-XXX- wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:44 am Anyway, stopping the cast is worse than the pouch breaking.

This is essentially where the disagreement is. I'd much rather a random cast in a low pressure situation be dropped than lose a pouch and have to go get a new one.

Yes, we're on the same page here. I argue that stopping the cast in a situation where that one spell could have made all the difference is a crippling proposition for the mage. Especially when the only argument for this is "I don't want to buy/make another pouch".

Btw. it is entirely possible to deplete a full pouch over the course of a single encounter - especially when taking counterspelling into account. Refilling the pouch during an already ongoing fight is extremely unviable as it isn't a free action.

Seriously...
Its 2x small leathers to make one, you can craft it with 1 SP in Tailoring, you might not succed in first try, but its doable. (Dc 15)
Small Leathers can be found in containers, its free, so why not.
Crafting the leather itself is a DC 1.. Tanning Acid and small hide x2. The Tanning Acid is a DC 6 in Herbalism. (Salt, fruit and Glass Vials)
I wrote this on other posts, put 1 pts in all crafts, and you can make all basic crafts.

As it was suggested, make several, keep some on you, buy extra.. its not a big deal...

Its.. okay! Why does everything has to be a Walk in the Park?
Sometimes i feel, people want a "press this buttom to win"

Tabby wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am Seriously...
Its 2x small leathers to make one, you can craft it with 1 SP in Tailoring, you might not succed in first try, but its doable. (Dc 15)
Small Leathers can be found in containers, its free, so why not.
Crafting the leather itself is a DC 1.. Tanning Acid and small hide x2. The Tanning Acid is a DC 6 in Herbalism. (Salt, fruit and Glass Vials)
I wrote this on other posts, put 1 pts in all crafts, and you can make all basic crafts.

As it was suggested, make several, keep some on you, buy extra.. its not a big deal...

Its.. okay! Why does everything has to be a Walk in the Park?
Sometimes i feel, people want a "press this buttom to win"

my issue with it is that while it's not, like, a financial burden (well, not a big one at least. it's incredibly minor)
it's simply annoying. literally just that. it's annoying. never claimed getting a component pouch is hard. never claimed getting spell components is difficult either. it's just annoying thing.
and i say this as someone who does keep several spell component pouches. so losing one, or even *three* would be pretty much nothing to me, as i can get them replaced in literally one sitting.

but i do agree with you partially at least. financially, DC'ly, it's not a big deal - it's minor.
it's just inconvenience.

Naghast wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:39 pm

Tabby wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am Seriously...
Its 2x small leathers to make one, you can craft it with 1 SP in Tailoring, you might not succed in first try, but its doable. (Dc 15)
Small Leathers can be found in containers, its free, so why not.
Crafting the leather itself is a DC 1.. Tanning Acid and small hide x2. The Tanning Acid is a DC 6 in Herbalism. (Salt, fruit and Glass Vials)
I wrote this on other posts, put 1 pts in all crafts, and you can make all basic crafts.

As it was suggested, make several, keep some on you, buy extra.. its not a big deal...

Its.. okay! Why does everything has to be a Walk in the Park?
Sometimes i feel, people want a "press this buttom to win"

my issue with it is that while it's not, like, a financial burden (well, not a big one at least. it's incredibly minor)
it's simply annoying. literally just that. it's annoying. never claimed getting a component pouch is hard. never claimed getting spell components is difficult either. it's just annoying thing.
and i say this as someone who does keep several spell component pouches. so losing one, or even *three* would be pretty much nothing to me, as i can get them replaced in literally one sitting.

but i do agree with you partially at least. financially, DC'ly, it's not a big deal - it's minor.
it's just inconvenience.

Armor breaking for mundane classes is annoying too. Compared to them, we casters have it easy. We lose a pouch; they lose entire their armor, their weapons, if those things run out of charges.

Sure it's all annoying. But the alternative is way too easy, way too convenient.

MissEvelyn wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:49 pm

Naghast wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:39 pm

Tabby wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am Seriously...
Its 2x small leathers to make one, you can craft it with 1 SP in Tailoring, you might not succed in first try, but its doable. (Dc 15)
Small Leathers can be found in containers, its free, so why not.
Crafting the leather itself is a DC 1.. Tanning Acid and small hide x2. The Tanning Acid is a DC 6 in Herbalism. (Salt, fruit and Glass Vials)
I wrote this on other posts, put 1 pts in all crafts, and you can make all basic crafts.

As it was suggested, make several, keep some on you, buy extra.. its not a big deal...

Its.. okay! Why does everything has to be a Walk in the Park?
Sometimes i feel, people want a "press this buttom to win"

my issue with it is that while it's not, like, a financial burden (well, not a big one at least. it's incredibly minor)
it's simply annoying. literally just that. it's annoying. never claimed getting a component pouch is hard. never claimed getting spell components is difficult either. it's just annoying thing.
and i say this as someone who does keep several spell component pouches. so losing one, or even *three* would be pretty much nothing to me, as i can get them replaced in literally one sitting.

but i do agree with you partially at least. financially, DC'ly, it's not a big deal - it's minor.
it's just inconvenience.

Armor breaking for mundane classes is annoying too. Compared to them, we casters have it easy. We lose a pouch; they lose entire their armor, their weapons, if those things run out of charges.

Sure it's all annoying. But the alternative is way too easy, way too convenient.

Is it though? There are plenty of casters who don't use components already.

MissEvelyn wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:49 pm

Naghast wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:39 pm

Tabby wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am Seriously...
Its 2x small leathers to make one, you can craft it with 1 SP in Tailoring, you might not succed in first try, but its doable. (Dc 15)
Small Leathers can be found in containers, its free, so why not.
Crafting the leather itself is a DC 1.. Tanning Acid and small hide x2. The Tanning Acid is a DC 6 in Herbalism. (Salt, fruit and Glass Vials)
I wrote this on other posts, put 1 pts in all crafts, and you can make all basic crafts.

As it was suggested, make several, keep some on you, buy extra.. its not a big deal...

Its.. okay! Why does everything has to be a Walk in the Park?
Sometimes i feel, people want a "press this buttom to win"

my issue with it is that while it's not, like, a financial burden (well, not a big one at least. it's incredibly minor)
it's simply annoying. literally just that. it's annoying. never claimed getting a component pouch is hard. never claimed getting spell components is difficult either. it's just annoying thing.
and i say this as someone who does keep several spell component pouches. so losing one, or even *three* would be pretty much nothing to me, as i can get them replaced in literally one sitting.

but i do agree with you partially at least. financially, DC'ly, it's not a big deal - it's minor.
it's just inconvenience.

Armor breaking for mundane classes is annoying too. Compared to them, we casters have it easy. We lose a pouch; they lose entire their armor, their weapons, if those things run out of charges.

Sure it's all annoying. But the alternative is way too easy, way too convenient.

there is a system that automatically unequips stuff that gets do 1 durability

Naghast wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:39 pm

Tabby wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am Seriously...
Its 2x small leathers to make one, you can craft it with 1 SP in Tailoring, you might not succed in first try, but its doable. (Dc 15)
Small Leathers can be found in containers, its free, so why not.
Crafting the leather itself is a DC 1.. Tanning Acid and small hide x2. The Tanning Acid is a DC 6 in Herbalism. (Salt, fruit and Glass Vials)
I wrote this on other posts, put 1 pts in all crafts, and you can make all basic crafts.

As it was suggested, make several, keep some on you, buy extra.. its not a big deal...

Its.. okay! Why does everything has to be a Walk in the Park?
Sometimes i feel, people want a "press this buttom to win"

my issue with it is that while it's not, like, a financial burden (well, not a big one at least. it's incredibly minor)
it's simply annoying. literally just that. it's annoying. never claimed getting a component pouch is hard. never claimed getting spell components is difficult either. it's just annoying thing.
and i say this as someone who does keep several spell component pouches. so losing one, or even *three* would be pretty much nothing to me, as i can get them replaced in literally one sitting.

but i do agree with you partially at least. financially, DC'ly, it's not a big deal - it's minor.
it's just inconvenience.

Yes its annoying, so be it... it do not have to be easy,does it? "Press button to Win" is what i stated before, its okay, have some extra with you, its that easy... i really dont see why this has to be such an issue, i would rather want to see devs make more items, extra worldbuilding, than look into this small, lesser issue.. with their limited time.. really.. just bring two extra pouches..
besides its adds to the economy, when one breaks... compared it to the repair kits then... its a commodity that always needs to be bought.. as it is now is the better solution..

so let it be annoying.. its not a big problem

Tabby wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:32 am

Naghast wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:39 pm

Tabby wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am Seriously...
Its 2x small leathers to make one, you can craft it with 1 SP in Tailoring, you might not succed in first try, but its doable. (Dc 15)
Small Leathers can be found in containers, its free, so why not.
Crafting the leather itself is a DC 1.. Tanning Acid and small hide x2. The Tanning Acid is a DC 6 in Herbalism. (Salt, fruit and Glass Vials)
I wrote this on other posts, put 1 pts in all crafts, and you can make all basic crafts.

As it was suggested, make several, keep some on you, buy extra.. its not a big deal...

Its.. okay! Why does everything has to be a Walk in the Park?
Sometimes i feel, people want a "press this buttom to win"

my issue with it is that while it's not, like, a financial burden (well, not a big one at least. it's incredibly minor)
it's simply annoying. literally just that. it's annoying. never claimed getting a component pouch is hard. never claimed getting spell components is difficult either. it's just annoying thing.
and i say this as someone who does keep several spell component pouches. so losing one, or even *three* would be pretty much nothing to me, as i can get them replaced in literally one sitting.

but i do agree with you partially at least. financially, DC'ly, it's not a big deal - it's minor.
it's just inconvenience.

Yes its annoying, so be it... it do not have to be easy,does it? "Press button to Win" is what i stated before, its okay, have some extra with you, its that easy... i really dont see why this has to be such an issue, i would rather want to see devs make more items, extra worldbuilding, than look into this small, lesser issue.. with their limited time.. really.. just bring two extra pouches..
besides its adds to the economy, when one breaks... compared it to the repair kits then... its a commodity that always needs to be bought.. as it is now is the better solution..

so let it be annoying.. its not a big problem

an... interesting approach to be honest, considering neither divines (druids/clerics/etc.) nor warlocks (double-checked it on live) use spell components for their high-circles. (getting piety back is easy from my experience).

also, why do you keep insisting on that "press button to win"? i genuinely don't understand.

Tabby wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:32 am Yes its annoying, so be it... it do not have to be easy,does it? "Press button to Win" is what i stated before, its okay, have some extra with you, its that easy... i really dont see why this has to be such an issue, i would rather want to see devs make more items, extra worldbuilding, than look into this small, lesser issue.. with their limited time.. really.. just bring two extra pouches..
besides its adds to the economy, when one breaks... compared it to the repair kits then... its a commodity that always needs to be bought.. as it is now is the better solution..

so let it be annoying.. its not a big problem

Could you explain to me why annoying is a good thing, and why if it not being annoying, it would be too easy? What element does spell components add that the absence of that element would make playing a wizard so easy that its not worth the added QoL?

To add on to that, weapons and armor degrading are also an annoying tedium that doesn't add anything to the game. That's just a check on whether or not you remembered to right click all your gear before you go out into a dungeon. Getting it repaired isn't difficult or anything more than an inconvenience.

Tabby wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:32 am

Naghast wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:39 pm

Tabby wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:19 am Seriously...
Its 2x small leathers to make one, you can craft it with 1 SP in Tailoring, you might not succed in first try, but its doable. (Dc 15)
Small Leathers can be found in containers, its free, so why not.
Crafting the leather itself is a DC 1.. Tanning Acid and small hide x2. The Tanning Acid is a DC 6 in Herbalism. (Salt, fruit and Glass Vials)
I wrote this on other posts, put 1 pts in all crafts, and you can make all basic crafts.

As it was suggested, make several, keep some on you, buy extra.. its not a big deal...

Its.. okay! Why does everything has to be a Walk in the Park?
Sometimes i feel, people want a "press this buttom to win"

my issue with it is that while it's not, like, a financial burden (well, not a big one at least. it's incredibly minor)
it's simply annoying. literally just that. it's annoying. never claimed getting a component pouch is hard. never claimed getting spell components is difficult either. it's just annoying thing.
and i say this as someone who does keep several spell component pouches. so losing one, or even *three* would be pretty much nothing to me, as i can get them replaced in literally one sitting.

but i do agree with you partially at least. financially, DC'ly, it's not a big deal - it's minor.
it's just inconvenience.

Yes its annoying, so be it... it do not have to be easy,does it? "Press button to Win" is what i stated before, its okay, have some extra with you, its that easy... i really dont see why this has to be such an issue, i would rather want to see devs make more items, extra worldbuilding, than look into this small, lesser issue.. with their limited time.. really.. just bring two extra pouches..
besides its adds to the economy, when one breaks... compared it to the repair kits then... its a commodity that always needs to be bought.. as it is now is the better solution..

so let it be annoying.. its not a big problem

Except someone already mentioned there's a framework for making the spell fail instead and there's examples of similar options for melee w/ geqr unequipping. I really don't see what your grievance with the idea is here aside from that you personally don't feel a need for it. You haven't even said outright that it'd make things less fun for you.

Change the system, i dont have an issue with per say, all im saying is, why does it have to be easy? When a game becomes too easy (this change here, and all other changes that have been suggested) add them all together, the game becomes easier and less complicated. And with that more boring.

The system is quite good if you ask me.
What i mean with "press vuttom to win is":
Dont let things get too easy, its okay to have complicated mechanics in the game.

Its just that. With the new system you ask for, is just making it easier, less comodities to be sold, and so on.

And i know im a single voice in this thread, but i stand firm on it

I agree, the spell component system, and especially items degrading, adds nothing to the game other then annoyance. Same with the hunger, thirst, rest system as well.

Tabby wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:14 am The system is quite good if you ask me.
What i mean with "press vuttom to win is":
Dont let things get too easy, its okay to have complicated mechanics in the game.

Components are more of a gold and time sink than a complicated mechanic. I don't think the game should be easy but they don't add difficulty like a challenging dungeon or PVP matchup or having to overcome build vulnerabilities and so on. They're busywork.

It may not seem like a distinction that matters but if we're discussing what they add to the game it isn't +difficulty+, it's a way to slow wizards down (from casting high level spells, and to make them spend time or money to prepare) and to introduce a consumable that spurs the economy. Discussion of whether they should be removed ought to address what the effects would be on those factors not shaming players for wanting an "I win" button.

Tikin wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:00 pm

Sincra wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:30 am The system actually supports never deleting a pouch, instead just denying the cast.
It's just not the default.

You guys should NEVER skip over what Sincra has to say ... He's a life changer!

Where is this option?

I think an eschew materials feat is a good idea. Build less optimal for conveniences. Especially in light of all the new up to spell 8 slot classes requiring no peity or components.

malcolm_mountainslayer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:09 pm

Tikin wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:00 pm

Sincra wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:30 am The system actually supports never deleting a pouch, instead just denying the cast.
It's just not the default.

You guys should NEVER skip over what Sincra has to say ... He's a life changer!

Where is this option?

Something I will need to make. It's inherent to the code but not accessible as an option, yet.

Tabby wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:14 am Change the system, i dont have an issue with per say, all im saying is, why does it have to be easy? When a game becomes too easy (this change here, and all other changes that have been suggested) add them all together, the game becomes easier and less complicated. And with that more boring.

The system is quite good if you ask me.
What i mean with "press vuttom to win is":
Dont let things get too easy, its okay to have complicated mechanics in the game.

Its just that. With the new system you ask for, is just making it easier, less comodities to be sold, and so on.

And i know im a single voice in this thread, but i stand firm on it

Ah, i see.
And i once again agree with you... Partially.
I do believe that things should be challenging in a way, but i also think it'd be best for the challenge to lie elswhere. Like, in the encounter mechanics.
(Edit: or, it could be just encounter difficulty. However you want to call it)

Example would be a boss that periodically (long cooldown) spawns minions, and it spreads the damage it takes equally between itself and the minions it has.
Or it could have a short-lived buff it activates periodically.

(I know these are not the best examples, just something off the top of my head)
But, i do understand your stance here, finally. Which is a plus for me.

Perhaps atleast if Sincra makes an addition to it so you can not cast the spell, then i suppose there now is an option, to not destroy the pouch.
That could be a good solution. Components still needs to be crafted, but the pouch would be a one time thing instead? Thats at least a reasonable comprimise *shrug*

It's a wizard/sorc tax that guarentee's 99% of wizard/sorc's will be art crafters and alchemists.