Arelith

Helsing wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:36 pm

AstralUniverse wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:18 pm

Kalopsia wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:41 am Have a look at 10 fighter, 5 Paladin, 15 CoT for instance.

This setup used to be 'good' (smiters were awful in general tho) back when harper paragon had tumble.

These days I think I'd go for something like 16 paladin (vengeance), already giving 3 free feats and one of them being great smite 1, then 10 cot and 4 lvls of whatever flavor of tumble dip or loremaster you like. bonus cookie for having majority paladin levels for some scalings.

First of all i know you are a good build advisor, and I have think about the same build myself, but it still feels very chunky because 16 paladin means you have a lot pally levels but cannot cast (CL bad), 10 CoT is also pretty bad because the class prefers deep investment. I’d missing good parts of both class if I do the 16/10 split…

So I wonder why shall I do such a chunky bd to make smite work. Is great smiting or smiter in general worth me to try it out...

This is the build I was talking about.
48-49 AB with Divine Wrath depending on weapon selection (+1 with the CoT armor's Aid spell), impressive AC, all epic feats a melee build would typically select as well as Great Smiting IV. I've also been able to fit GSF:Abjuration for the extra IGMS resistance and SF:Spot (which, combined with the +3 from Inquisition Oath 1 and +6 from Gift of the Hunter make for an ungeared, unbuffed spot score of 46).

Helsing wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:36 pm

AstralUniverse wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:18 pm

Kalopsia wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:41 am Have a look at 10 fighter, 5 Paladin, 15 CoT for instance.

This setup used to be 'good' (smiters were awful in general tho) back when harper paragon had tumble.

These days I think I'd go for something like 16 paladin (vengeance), already giving 3 free feats and one of them being great smite 1, then 10 cot and 4 lvls of whatever flavor of tumble dip or loremaster you like. bonus cookie for having majority paladin levels for some scalings.

First of all i know you are a good build advisor, and I have think about the same build myself, but it still feels very chunky because 16 paladin means you have a lot pally levels but cannot cast (CL bad), 10 CoT is also pretty bad because the class prefers deep investment. I’d missing good parts of both class if I do the 16/10 split…

So I wonder why shall I do such a chunky bd to make smite work. Is great smiting or smiter in general worth me to try it out...

I dont think anyone is particularly *recommending* great smiter builds. The thing is they are problematic to balance as already explained by other players. Smite was doing 550~ damage crits at the first iteration of the great smite rework... that's absurd. The way it is set right now is that it's still very potent in pvp and the builds using it are also coincidentally pretty good at pve because they have +14 ac from divine shield + improved turning. They can be fun to play if you understand what you're signing into, like any other build. This one really lives up to the "if you're chaotic evil scum and I get to melee range with you, I'm almost guaranteed to win in 1 round" and it shouldnt be any stronger than this. Also, yes, the perfect smiter setup is most likely giving up spellbook casting entirely. Cant have everything. You're not picking cot for it's cot stuff, you're picking it exclusively because it scales with great smite and has a lot of bonus feats on lvls 1-10 which you shove mostly in epics. You're also not picking paladin here for it's spellcasting you're picking for smite related things and turn undead related things so any level of paladin investment is mostly good enough as long as you get 20+ levels of paladin and cot combined.

I'd definitely want to play a CoT if its level is count for Paladin's Divine Synergy requirement. But not now, With such windup, I'd rather play a warpriest.