Arelith

Sincra wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:37 pm

BurntGnome wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:23 pm

Sincra wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:09 pm
3. Not sure if you've ever seen any military sim games but artillery doesn't tend to be wading through a battlefield to setup. It's not as if any of these are a battering ram, so you should easily be able to set them up at range.

I do encourage you to attempt to use these items in game, you'll find that wading into action with them is just about the only practical way to employ them, and even then, their use is very limited due the clunky mechanics they use (bombards being the only one of the 4 types actually useful at all). Arelith isnt a war sim, realism doesnt trump gameplay.

I appreciate there may be some issues with them, but as I addressed on Discord, I am willing to work on resolving those, rather than applying an exception to something that does not deserve or warrant it.

I will be compiling my notes on the siege weapon system, as I said I would, but I would point out, if this was limited to fixtures flagged as stolen, there wouldnt need be exceptions at all.

Party in the forest at midnight wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:32 pm Do you get into PvP frequently enough that you might lose your table and sign? Also, those are really easy to replace fixtures. Deciding to not keep RPing as normal in the off chance you might lose a table and a sign is sort of weird. The update isn't saying "carrying fixtures will now put a timer on your character before they explode and die," it's saying that if your character dies while holding something it'll drop. How often do people die that this is an issue?

I see where this argument is trying to be led. I do not get into deliberate PvP when I have the fixtures. I do, however, enjoy going out on incursions with members of my faction; telling them "wait, let me go to my off-shot quarter" is ten minutes burnt to protect my fixtures feels like an unnecessary burden in a video game where most people can hardly spare an hour.

I cannot come to fathom this change at all. Fixtures are heavy and take massive space in your inventory. No one frankly notices the fact that your fixtures are in your inventory. For those on this thread who agree with the fact that carrying fixtures is silly, how would you even know? What effect does one having fixtures in their inventory place upon you?

Even the argument circlegrinding with an anvil/[insert repair fixture] are moot with repair kits and writs existing.

The rationale given in the update is a multifaceted false dilemma.

1. Argues it's not realistic in a game where I can casually carry 4,000+ lbs fully buffed by intention of previous developers of Arelith.

2. Then it's "here's this new update to a prevalent problem. Either take it or you'll never recover your stolen fixtures*". In my 5+ years being on Arelith and owning a quarter on every character I have made, I have never come across someone in the process of stealing my fixture. If someone has, I ask how many times you have.

*Caveat being if the stolen fixtures were in breach of the Theft rule.

crafting stations are easy to replace. none of them are expensive, or hard to make.

Amateur Hour wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:40 pm

Sincra wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:09 pm 2. Travel Craft Kits, or, as was added, repair kits? This encourages actual use of trade workshops, and is not a detraction. You can still carry them however, again, just don't die.

Literally travel crafting workstations. It has been (for those who have the carry weight...none of my characters do) an exceedingly useful option for crafters when the public stations bug out. I've had a few times on my dwarf jeweler where I've tried to craft something at the station in Brogendenstein, it's been bugged out, used the portal to go to Bendir, have its art station bugged out as well, and had to go all the way to Sibayad to find a publicly-accessible one that isn't "broken." The way I've typically seen it explained IC is that there's some piece of small equipment someone walked off with that they desperately need to use the station and its absence means they can't do anything at said station, but isn't it reasonable that, say, a tailor could carry a spare pair of shears?

This has become less of a problem since crafting stations are bugging out less often these days, but when it does happen it's an exceptional hassle.

These extreme situations that are an "exceptional hassle" are super overblown. Even if we accept that you had to go all the way to Sibayad to find a thing that is only something like a 5 minute delay. Additionally, I find it hard to believe that Bendir or Brog only has only one module station (and no player put stations) and if that is the case, then add another one (plus you can pick it up and put it down when it does bug out which also doesn't happen that often).

Obviously, this is a change that's meant to fit a theme (it is silly to carry around a lot of stuff like that) so roll with it and use the very easy existing options to get around this extremely rare "exceptional hassle".

Or, just don't die? Are people seriously dying all the time hanging around the cities and doing roleplay? Put your crafting station down before you go somewhere if that's an issue

With regards to one of the more consistant concerns. Which is being portrayed as some manner of prolific amount of PvP.

We can see every PvP Interaction on the server in real time. Your concerns of dying the moment you step out you house are vastly over exagerated. PvP just simply does not occur that often to even consider it to be an issue. Their is no debate to that either, it is factual. If you are one of a very select handful of players whom actively participate in Player vs Player combat, then you already know the risks involved.

The only point of this topic that is of immediate concern is how the rules address any interaction with the fixtures that fall and DM Grumpycat has already shared a response on such.

Poppy

Just a reminder that you can pick up fixture workstations and put them back down, and that should reset them and fix the glitch.

I can understand the concern with pieces of art, rugs, things like that. But those shouldn’t be things that are randomly carried around.

In terms of siege weapons? They’re cheap and easy to make. Dying is far more of an inconvenience than potentially losing a cannon. It feels like a mountain is being made out of a molehill here.

A shame about the book shelves, i loved having one with me for the umd tomes, one of the perks of being strength characters

Rei_Jin wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:06 am I can understand the concern with pieces of art, rugs, things like that. But those shouldn’t be things that are randomly carried around.

In terms of siege weapons? They’re cheap and easy to make. Dying is far more of an inconvenience than potentially losing a cannon. It feels like a mountain is being made out of a molehill here.

I would protest that.

Unless you have a Mark of Destiny/Despair/Dauntlessness, the consequences of death will fade within two real-life hours without you lifting a finger (you can even LOG OUT). You have to avoid the people who killed you for two days, but I'm guessing people who get into conflicts while carrying siege weapons are probably people who were killed in a pitched-battle situation rather than a neighbor squabble where they have to alter their movement patterns for two days.

Siege weapons have DCs between 29 and 35, and require triple-digit CP; most require rare hardwood. That is objectively going to require more time and effort than sitting still for two hours.

-stick- wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:19 pm A shame about the book shelves, i loved having one with me for the umd tomes, one of the perks of being strength characters

I think maybe book bags should be looked at to function more like bookshelves. I've known a few people who, because of this, plop down bookshelves and don't use the bags.

Not to derail too far out into bookshelves, but one way they're different from book bags is that copied books lose their graphic back to a blank book once put in a backpack. Likely unintended, but could be a thing to look at for the bookcase situation.

Seems this post lacks some pirate's feedback. Because this update has a large influence to pirates.

I know there is a common situation for pirates: They win a ship fight on the sea. But when they land to the dock of Sencliff, they find themselves ambushed by an army of angry soldiers and get killed. Now these pirates will also lose their siege weapons.

The update makes sense. However, it causes more hurts than fun. Unless everyone's carrying their own tomb while adventuring.

I personally think this change is pretty awful.

The only time I've ever been on the receiving end of theft in this game, they weren't stealing fixtures, they were stealing items, which this doesn't address, and they still got away with it and there was nothing that could be done, they left no calling signs no way to track them down just a stack of valuable items completely gone with zero recourse.

A master blacksmith rocking ridiculous strength would make sense they would carry around their own anvil, why in the world would they trust inferior public work stations? Especially since they seem to bug out a lot.

Just seems like a very weird change, I've never seen someone just steal a fixture infront of people and try to wander off with it, or keep it on their person to be "Recovered" later in some PvP thing.

Thieves in my experience are just people greifing other players, they aren't seeking out RP, they are just stealing because they can. This just seems to hurt players just enjoying the game far more than it fixes any issues.

Amateur Hour wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:54 pm

Rei_Jin wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:06 am I can understand the concern with pieces of art, rugs, things like that. But those shouldn’t be things that are randomly carried around.

In terms of siege weapons? They’re cheap and easy to make. Dying is far more of an inconvenience than potentially losing a cannon. It feels like a mountain is being made out of a molehill here.

I would protest that.

Unless you have a Mark of Destiny/Despair/Dauntlessness, the consequences of death will fade within two real-life hours without you lifting a finger (you can even LOG OUT). You have to avoid the people who killed you for two days, but I'm guessing people who get into conflicts while carrying siege weapons are probably people who were killed in a pitched-battle situation rather than a neighbor squabble where they have to alter their movement patterns for two days.

Siege weapons have DCs between 29 and 35, and require triple-digit CP; most require rare hardwood. That is objectively going to require more time and effort than sitting still for two hours.

Sorry, I meant in terms of RP.

If you just want to talk mechanics? Sure, losing a bombard sucks.

For me though, the narrative impact of dying in PvP is much greater than the narrative impact of losing a bombard. Stuff can be replaced, but dead is dead.

Yes, I know we get better from dying; that shouldn’t change the narrative impact that much.

Sandrow wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:26 am Seems this post lacks some pirate's feedback. Because this update has a large influence to pirates.

I know there is a common situation for pirates: They win a ship fight on the sea. But when they land to the dock of Sencliff, they find themselves ambushed by an army of angry soldiers and get killed. Now these pirates will also lose their siege weapons.

The update makes sense. However, it causes more hurts than fun. Unless everyone's carrying their own tomb while adventuring.

Well the rules around this would be that the "ganking group of angry soldiers" could only take one 'fixture'. Additionally these are flagged to not get cleaned up. So, in a worse case scenario you would have to wait for the soldiers to go home and then go and pick up all the stuff you dropped minus the one item the group took.

msheeler wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:32 pm Well the rules around this would be that the "ganking group of angry soldiers" could only take one 'fixture'. Additionally these are flagged to not get cleaned up. So, in a worse case scenario you would have to wait for the soldiers to go home and then go and pick up all the stuff you dropped minus the one item the group took.

By rule such raids would be observed by DMs and yes, only one would be taken, but others will be destroyed.

The others would not be destroyed. The cleanup script does not vanish them.

-stick- wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:19 pm A shame about the book shelves, i loved having one with me for the umd tomes, one of the perks of being strength characters

The real elephant in the room here is that we can't put magical books in the book bag. It sort of makes the bag useless for characters who like collecting UMD tomes, and other magical books.

Not to make a suggestion (or actually...), can we either, A) Make book bags accept magical books, or B) Add in "magical" book bags that are capable of holding magical tomes without exploding.
Pretty please? 🥹

The pirate example brings to mind a few questions on the player-side etiquette and rules interpretation. Let's say for the sake of argument that the Cordorian Guard destroys Pirate Crew A on Sencliff, and the pirates drop five fixtures as a result of this attack, thus leaving five loot bags on the ground, and the Cordor Guard (in accordance with the rules) selects one fixture to take, leaving four remaining.

1. Is the Cordorian Guard obligated to quit the area quickly to allow Pirate Crew A to come back and attempt to remaining four loot bags, in order to preserve the 48-hour rule?
2. Could a random pirate from Crew B who happens to pass by pick up one of the remaining loot bags, or even all of the remaining loot bags?
3. If they pick up a remaining loot bag, does this count as their theft for the 24 hour period?

Amateur Hour wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:28 pm The pirate example brings to mind a few questions on the player-side etiquette and rules interpretation. Let's say for the sake of argument that the Cordorian Guard destroys Pirate Crew A on Sencliff, and the pirates drop five fixtures as a result of this attack, thus leaving five loot bags on the ground, and the Cordor Guard (in accordance with the rules) selects one fixture to take, leaving four remaining.

1. Is the Cordorian Guard obligated to quit the area quickly to allow Pirate Crew A to come back and attempt to remaining four loot bags, in order to preserve the 48-hour rule?
2. Could a random pirate from Crew B who happens to pass by pick up one of the remaining loot bags, or even all of the remaining loot bags?
3. If they pick up a remaining loot bag, does this count as their theft for the 24 hour period?

So. This isn't really relative to the fixture rule any more than it is to day in day out 48 Hour Rule and Area Settings.

If Cordor raid Sencliff, they are going to follow the raid rules. Have a goal, don't linger, don't kill NPCs etc etc. Add to that the fixture drop and they can take one before they retreat. Since it's a group, it's 1 per the group.

If we moved to a more raid free area. Group A kill Group B in the Arelith Forest. Group B drop fixtures. Group A can linger in the area for sure and Group C can wander by and steal ONE fixture as well. What can Group B do? Well, they can get someone to collect their stuff, or they can wait for Group A to leave. Since the 48 hour rule applies regardless.

MissEvelyn wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:15 pm

-stick- wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:19 pm A shame about the book shelves, i loved having one with me for the umd tomes, one of the perks of being strength characters

The real elephant in the room here is that we can't put magical books in the book bag. It sort of makes the bag useless for characters who like collecting UMD tomes, and other magical books.

Not to make a suggestion (or actually...), can we either, A) Make book bags accept magical books, or B) Add in "magical" book bags that are capable of holding magical tomes without exploding.
Pretty please? 🥹

I'm actually working on redoing all inventory containers to use a better data storage format, this should enable the above and actually calculate weights as intended, something shelves to my knowledge did not do.

Worth noting is that I intend to add NUI support to containers, but they will not get it immediately with my data move. That's another project

Sincra wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:43 pm I'm actually working on redoing all inventory containers to use a better data storage format, this should enable the above and actually calculate weights as intended, something shelves to my knowledge did not do.

Worth noting is that I intend to add NUI support to containers, but they will not get it immediately with my data move. That's another project

OMG what a hero. Containers weight glitches are the worst. Anything NUI can be used for is a god-send. Thank you kindly.

AstralUniverse wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:07 am

Sincra wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:43 pm I'm actually working on redoing all inventory containers to use a better data storage format, this should enable the above and actually calculate weights as intended, something shelves to my knowledge did not do.

Worth noting is that I intend to add NUI support to containers, but they will not get it immediately with my data move. That's another project

OMG what a hero. Containers weight glitches are the worst. Anything NUI can be used for is a god-send. Thank you kindly.

+1
All of this. Thank you, Sincra!