Harper / Zhentarim PrC need updating / streamlined.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

Why not? Darkhold was making a lot of plays in the west during this time. I think there's a lot of room for the Zhentarim to be on Arelith. However, with that said, it'd be the western faction, which is in conflict with the eastern faction. The eastern faction being present on Arelith has a lot of very large lore implications, they're encroaching on the west's territory and the "truce" between both sides is very fragile.

[Joe46]

I may be in the wrong as these things are strictly FOIG, it isn't relevant to the mechanics but...

Harpers suck. IC, I believe arelith's harpers are barely above vigilantes that do as much harm as good it seems

Zhentarim likewise are too unified, but that goes for most "evil" factions nowdays.

The classes are either absolute trash and kill your build and confine you to RP only or... They enable very strong combinations. I can't say what the rework should be like, but a rework is indeed needed.

As for those that say "Harper/Zhentarim should be weak mechanically", I'll merely give you my unhinged opinion: no scheme has survived contact with a sword. In arelith at least, in my humble opinion, schemes are only useful to support military victories. On their own they fall flat

[Party in the forest at midnight]

Here's a source. Taken from Cloak & Dagger. The sourcebook is 2e but relates to what is going on in the game world. Given Arelith's time freeze, Sememmon wouldn't have betrayed the Zhentarim and is still ruling Darkhold. I highlighted things relating to the story: The east wants to take over the west. The west distrusts the east and is trying to strengthen itself by making new allies.

What's important to note here is that Darkhold is backing the Mountain of Skulls in their fight with the Eternal Eclipse. The Eternal Eclipse backed the Sythillisian ogres in taking Murann, which used to be Amn's other port other than Athkatla. (Also worth noting, the Mountain of Skulls has a presence in Amn's military in this fight against the Eternal Eclipse/Sythillisian empire). If the Zhentarim became one of the main contributors to reclaiming Murann, it would give them a lot of political sway to operate in Amn.

Because of Arelith's proximity to Amn, the server has always had a strong Amnian presence. It would make sense that Amnian matters like this would leak onto the island and that the Zhentarim would end up here one way or another. Not to mention all of the insane magical happenings that have centered around Arelith, surely word would make its way to the mainland and the Zhentarim would want a piece of the pie.

Secondly, the quoted part says that the Zhentarim have their eyes on Maztica. Being on the way to Maztica is one of the plot points of Arelith.

Thirdly, on Arelith it isn't even Darkhold. Zhentil Keep set up shop here. Which means the plot hook could be that the eastern faction is trying to work around Darkhold and claim territory behind their back. Which means if/when word reaches Darkhold, it's a powderkeg waiting to explode.

There's a lot of things here to pursue in-character.

[Snake2512]

The Zhentarim on Arelith have no overarching plot and there is precisely no rules against murdering other agents, something that has been planned and actioned before in very recent memory. I am unsure where this idea that the Zhentarim is too unified comes from, especially with the common trend of Cyrcist vs Banite clique that is very real and alive.

[Security_Blanket]

The Zhentarim on Arelith have no overarching plot and there is precisely no rules against murdering other agents, something that has been planned and actioned before in very recent memory. I am unsure where this idea that the Zhentarim is too unified comes from, especially with the common trend of Cyrcist vs Banite clique that is very real and alive.

I can't speak to how things have been lately in the factions, from what I remember we were very organized and working towards the same goal. There certainly was no infighting over who got to manage books on a shelf. But that to me only furthers the point that they should stay locked away, tweak them by all means if necessary, but you're given access to certain things, certain info and you just can't trust players to conduct themselves appropriately. Whether it's in RP or PVP it's all about the win to so many players, nevermind the months of RP you can destroy in an instant of metagaming.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Harpers suck. IC, I believe arelith's harpers are barely above vigilantes that do as much harm as good it seems

This made me smile because this is exactly how most folks would view the harpers in the setting.

The Zhentarim on Arelith have no overarching plot and there is precisely no rules against murdering other agents, something that has been planned and actioned before in very recent memory. I am unsure where this idea that the Zhentarim is too unified comes from, especially with the common trend of Cyrcist vs Banite clique that is very real and alive.

This is cool stuff. I just think you are mistaking where the beef is though. Zhentarim being part of the setting is great even if it doesn't make total cannon sense, because since arelith isn't cannon it has the liberty of pretty much doing whatever it wants. And having organizations that folks who know d&d but are new to arelith should always be a thing.

But...and no, not everything i said before this but was horseshit, sorry Lord Stark...copy and pasting the harper class and making it a zhent class makes it seem like the organizations are two different sides of the same coin. They are not, not even close. And I think that's the point my fellow detractors and I are all trying to make.

[Subtext]

Why not? Darkhold was making a lot of plays in the west during this time. I think there's a lot of room for the Zhentarim to be on Arelith. However, with that said, it'd be the western faction, which is in conflict with the eastern faction. The eastern faction being present on Arelith has a lot of very large lore implications, they're encroaching on the west's territory and the "truce" between both sides is very fragile.

Referencing the 3rd edition source book Lords of Darkness, there's a treaty in effect between Blackstaff and Fzoul Chembryl during the time Arelith is set in where the Zhentarim are limited in their expansion to the East...in exchange for some stuff. It's actually the reason why Blackstaff got expelled from the Harpers.
That's not exactly common IC knowledge though and I suppose outside of Zhents and Harpers, player character shouldn't be aware of it.