Arelith

Shalvenay wrote:

Lorkas wrote: ... None of our characters know ICly that they will be able to respawn an unlimited number of times, but the metagame is strong and largely accepted as normal on this issue.

What would a character's observations about seeing folks die and come back again repeatedly (or better yet, returning from the Fugue themselves on multiple occasions) tell them?

So when Astarial got off the boat, he met this scruffy looking guy on the docks calling himself a captain. Ast had never seen someone who looked like that be the captain of anything, but this captain told him of some magical rock he could bind himself to in case the worst happened.

Ast made a mental note to check it out- much, much later.

Then Ast made some friends, and one of his friends asked where he was bound to. He looked at them blankly, and they took him to a binding stone.

Ast thinks this a little less crazy now.


Now, I could go about a dozen different ways with justifications here- the stone consumes a bit of your life force as the moment of your demise is about to occur, and instantly teleports you to the stone. This in turn gives the stone the power to function for the next person bound to it who needs to use it.

In this instance, "respawning" is the absence of actually dying.

Another instance that can work for you, depending on your character and circumstances- is that you die, and your soul waits at a location in the fugue corresponding to the location of the binding stone. By 'binding' to the stone, you enable your Patron's emissaries to find you faster, and if you died in service of your Patron's causes, in exchange for some of your life force they will reverse the moment of death for you.

In this case, you actually die, and an emissary of your god resurrects you at the binding stone.

Artificial phylactery? Rip in the barrier between the fugue plane and the prime material plane? (Natural or created?!)

You may find these circumstances contrived, but by the lore (and I'd dare go so far as to say in most high fantasy), this is the nature of death in a world like FR. It is not always as permanent as it ought to be. Plenty of people might die permanently.

The only irreversible death is one of age- you could hypothetically Wish to return someone who died of old age to life. But the evil cackling you hear in the background while you read this? That's the DM, paying very close attention to your every word- or lack thereof- as you make said wish.

Shalvenay wrote:

Lorkas wrote: ... None of our characters know ICly that they will be able to respawn an unlimited number of times, but the metagame is strong and largely accepted as normal on this issue.

What would a character's observations about seeing folks die and come back again repeatedly (or better yet, returning from the Fugue themselves on multiple occasions) tell them?

That's how Storm sees it. She has personally witnessed people be killed quite thoroughly, and then come back. That IS an IC thing. If Bob the Banite (love you L3) gets beheaded and burnt, and is back a week later in fighting form, how else can a character explain it past "some jerkbag friend of theirs that is a priest has way too much free time and diamonds."?

Shalvenay wrote:

Lorkas wrote: ... None of our characters know ICly that they will be able to respawn an unlimited number of times, but the metagame is strong and largely accepted as normal on this issue.

What would a character's observations about seeing folks die and come back again repeatedly (or better yet, returning from the Fugue themselves on multiple occasions) tell them?

This is typical PC thinking. These deaths that people come back from are the only ones that the game shows us, but the vast majority of people who die in the world don't come back from it. People have a tendency to forget that there are PCs, rendered NPCs, and non-rendered NPCs that make up the "normals" of the game world but aren't in game for performance reasons. Cordor's population is not just what is rendered in game.

IC, there isn't a categorical difference between NPCs and PCs. If you are thinking of your PC as categorically different from the nameless NPCs that die and never return, then you are thinking OOCly. Even if we know that it's possible to come back many times, we don't know ICly that the gods will never get tired of the revolving door afterlife. It's metagaming to "know" that you can come back forever, though like I said, it's largely accepted metagaming.

Plus, even if we accept that PCs are a special category ICly, there isn't an IC way for a character to know whether they have a Mark of Destiny or not. You don't know ICly that you can come back an unlimited number of times.

Maybe we're going to have an event that focuses on MoD the same way we've had events circling around warlocks and Dragons!

HurinWillSmite wrote:Maybe we're going to have an event that focuses on MoD the same way we've had events circling around warlocks and Dragons!

that doesnt makes any sense

Cortex wrote:

HurinWillSmite wrote:Maybe we're going to have an event that focuses on MoD the same way we've had events circling around warlocks and Dragons!

that doesnt makes any sense

He means that the MoD fairy is going to go about to all the MoD people while the sleep and sprinkle some pixie dust upon them so that they all get more lives!

Griefmaker wrote:

Cortex wrote:

HurinWillSmite wrote:Maybe we're going to have an event that focuses on MoD the same way we've had events circling around warlocks and Dragons!

that doesnt makes any sense

He means that the MoD fairy is going to go about to all the MoD people while the sleep and sprinkle some pixie dust upon them so that they all get more lives!

BUT DOESNT THAT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF MOD

Lorkas wrote:

Shalvenay wrote:

Lorkas wrote: ... None of our characters know ICly that they will be able to respawn an unlimited number of times, but the metagame is strong and largely accepted as normal on this issue.

What would a character's observations about seeing folks die and come back again repeatedly (or better yet, returning from the Fugue themselves on multiple occasions) tell them?

This is typical PC thinking. These deaths that people come back from are the only ones that the game shows us, but the vast majority of people who die in the world don't come back from it. People have a tendency to forget that there are PCs, rendered NPCs, and non-rendered NPCs that make up the "normals" of the game world but aren't in game for performance reasons. Cordor's population is not just what is rendered in game.

IC, there isn't a categorical difference between NPCs and PCs. If you are thinking of your PC as categorically different from the nameless NPCs that die and never return, then you are thinking OOCly. Even if we know that it's possible to come back many times, we don't know ICly that the gods will never get tired of the revolving door afterlife. It's metagaming to "know" that you can come back forever, though like I said, it's largely accepted metagaming.

Plus, even if we accept that PCs are a special category ICly, there isn't an IC way for a character to know whether they have a Mark of Destiny or not. You don't know ICly that you can come back an unlimited number of times.

Your god could tell you" listen if after 10 times I have to keep raising you I am just going to say screw it". "I have thousands of worshippers, all complaining and wanting stuff, I can't spend all day sending you back because you took a dare on if you could catch a gonne slug between your teeth."

Now, everyone is allowed to role play how they want to. No one will be punished for bad role play (unless it is extremely distasteful role play). However, we need to remember this is not reality itself we are dealing with, but a digital representation of a pseudo reality. We're looking at rendered 3D models, not a city filled with people. It's our jobs as role players to...well, role play. Do whatever you think would make sense, if this was a real world.

Now, you could role play that a magic scroll could easily bring you back from the precipice of death itself, but what does that mean within the lore? Have you ever read a book or watch a movie where everyone is nonchalant about the threat of death? It would be nice if people did not trivialize the prospect of their character's doom, but of course, you're allowed to role play as you see fit.

As for the 'Mark of Despair' perk, I like to think of it as just a way to acknowledge actual death of one's character. In my own, humble opinion, people who die are supposed to stay that way, BUT then something amazing happens and the person lives...unfortunately, when something 'amazing' happens 23 times a day...it becomes less amazing. Which is probably why people trivialize it. MoD tried to fix that. But again, role play as you see fit.

You can't claim divine revelation to gain information that your character doesn't otherwise have access to any more than someone can claim to have telepathy to know something they heard on Skype.

Lorkas wrote:You can't claim divine revelation to gain information that your character doesn't otherwise have access to any more than someone can claim to have telepathy to know something they heard on Skype.

Irongron wrote:And regarding people remembering the lead up to death, and how they died; there was never a rule against that, and neither is there now.

- 'Re: Death Changes - Discussion'

@Lorkas: While you're certainly right that some information should not be known to your character, such as out of game information, apparently the circumstances of your character's demise is not one of them. Unless you were referring to something else?

I didn't put in quotes because I was on my phone, but I was responding to this:

sab1 wrote:Your god could tell you" listen if after 10 times I have to keep raising you I am just going to say screw it". "I have thousands of worshippers, all complaining and wanting stuff, I can't spend all day sending you back because you took a dare on if you could catch a gonne slug between your teeth."

Lorkas wrote:I didn't put in quotes because I was on my phone, but I was responding to this:

sab1 wrote:Your god could tell you" listen if after 10 times I have to keep raising you I am just going to say screw it". "I have thousands of worshippers, all complaining and wanting stuff, I can't spend all day sending you back because you took a dare on if you could catch a gonne slug between your teeth."

Oh okay, no worries then.

What if there was an option for MOD built in where any MoD Characters cannot be brought down to a HP total below -1.

So a blow that would normally send your MOD character on an express to the Death Plane.. instead drops you to no lower than -5, where you can at least stabilize.

I love MoD as it is but since the new death changes I think it would be fair to change MoD to only count for actual respawn since there are rp situations (like capture rp) or griefers or just accidents that happen where the character might reach the fugue but get promptly raised. In that case, your assigned god didn't have a hand in returning you and shouldn't have to get the credit.

-S

What if every character got a MoD as soon as they level up to level 21 or 26 or some specified (high) level, and don't lose the MoD if they later drop below that level?

If someone doesn't want a MoD, then they have the choice to stop their level progression and decline leveling up. If they do level up past that point, however (and many people who expect to engage in PvP try to get as high a level as possible as quickly as possible) then they will have a higher cost of death (and corresponding benefit to hourly RP ticks--it wouldn't be a Mark of Despair, after all). The MoD could still be an option to take from the very beginning for those so inclined.

I understand the resistance to this idea, but I honestly think it would bring about an improvement in the treatment of death and dueling as a serious, risky proposition (at least among higher level characters).

Lorkas wrote:What if every character got a MoD as soon as they level up to level 21 or 26 or some specified (high) level, and don't lose the MoD if they later drop below that level?

If someone doesn't want a MoD, then they have the choice to stop their level progression and decline leveling up. If they do level up past that point, however (and many people who expect to engage in PvP try to get as high a level as possible as quickly as possible) then they will have a higher cost of death (and corresponding benefit to hourly RP ticks--it wouldn't be a Mark of Despair, after all). The MoD could still be an option to take from the very beginning for those so inclined.

I understand the resistance to this idea, but I honestly think it would bring about an improvement in the treatment of death and dueling as a serious, risky proposition (at least among higher level characters).

I support this idea fully

As I said before I will never force MoDs on players, whatever their level.

Maybe Mithreas feels differently, but for myself I think my position on this is pretty clear.

Some ideas

1) Mark of Despair
Someone with a Mark of Despair can see his/her time running out and WILL die in a couple of IG years. No matter what.. but maybe start at level 5(?) and have a high tick per 6 minutes. You need to go fast! Make your time worth, because there is only so much time left.


2) Mark of Destiny
You have a Mark of Destiny with only 3 charges. But these charges do not mean you're dead forever, but respawning consumes 1 charge. Those will only fill slowly and as time passes. 1 IG year (?).


3) Mark of Mithreas
Your mark counts all the things you kill. Be it creatures or Players (though players count like as if you had killed a lot of creatures at once). The higher this counter goes, the more likely someone will be subject to assault and ambush, just because he's a known guy who kills a lot! Some people would want to end his life! And these nasty people could show up everywhere. Anytime

Mark of Despair is a punishment, which removes all RPR.

Ozzy.nl wrote:

Lorkas wrote:What if every character got a MoD as soon as they level up to level 21 or 26 or some specified (high) level, and don't lose the MoD if they later drop below that level?

If someone doesn't want a MoD, then they have the choice to stop their level progression and decline leveling up. If they do level up past that point, however (and many people who expect to engage in PvP try to get as high a level as possible as quickly as possible) then they will have a higher cost of death (and corresponding benefit to hourly RP ticks--it wouldn't be a Mark of Despair, after all). The MoD could still be an option to take from the very beginning for those so inclined.

I understand the resistance to this idea, but I honestly think it would bring about an improvement in the treatment of death and dueling as a serious, risky proposition (at least among higher level characters).

I support this idea fully

I oppose the idea unconditionally for being bad.

If Mithreas ever asks for a public reanimation of this horse, I will supply detailed explanations as to why.

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: The only irreversible death is one of age- you could hypothetically Wish to return someone who died of old age to life. But the evil cackling you hear in the background while you read this? That's the DM, paying very close attention to your every word- or lack thereof- as you make said wish.

I would love to hear that wish spell. I bet it would be really, really long.

Lorkas wrote:

Shalvenay wrote:

Lorkas wrote: ... None of our characters know ICly that they will be able to respawn an unlimited number of times, but the metagame is strong and largely accepted as normal on this issue.

What would a character's observations about seeing folks die and come back again repeatedly (or better yet, returning from the Fugue themselves on multiple occasions) tell them?

This is typical PC thinking. These deaths that people come back from are the only ones that the game shows us, but the vast majority of people who die in the world don't come back from it. People have a tendency to forget that there are PCs, rendered NPCs, and non-rendered NPCs that make up the "normals" of the game world but aren't in game for performance reasons. Cordor's population is not just what is rendered in game.

IC, there isn't a categorical difference between NPCs and PCs. If you are thinking of your PC as categorically different from the nameless NPCs that die and never return, then you are thinking OOCly. Even if we know that it's possible to come back many times, we don't know ICly that the gods will never get tired of the revolving door afterlife. It's metagaming to "know" that you can come back forever, though like I said, it's largely accepted metagaming.

Plus, even if we accept that PCs are a special category ICly, there isn't an IC way for a character to know whether they have a Mark of Destiny or not. You don't know ICly that you can come back an unlimited number of times.

There indeed is not a categorical difference between PCs and NPCs -- however, there's nothing that says that NPCs don't ever come back from the Fugue, either! (Otherwise, how do you explain the repeated returns of Bram Snyders and other such Lower Cordor fixtures after getting killed off by the Sewer Rats Gang?)

Or better yet, what if the Bloodmoons have been the exact same batch of orcs since the Beholders first took over?

We're all undeads, cursed to die and be reborn, withering away and slowly going insane and hollow.

Scurvy Cur wrote:I oppose the idea unconditionally for being bad.

If Mithreas ever asks for a public reanimation of this horse, I will supply detailed explanations as to why.

I... disagree, but will try not to be such a dismissive snuggaboo about it as you have been here. It would solve a bunch of problems and the only problem it would create is that people don't like the idea of characters dying.