Arelith

I completely agree with CJ and find it very surprising how little criticism Beamdog's EE NWN project has awakened here. I see the offered improvements vastly underwhelming in terms of what we might expect of an enhancement in exchange for 20 dollars of our money.

I think the NWN playerbase is very biased here, because we are overly loyal to the game to see how much we're being screwed over. I mean sure, if we're silly enough, we can be sold all kinds of shoddy goods for a neat profit. Still though, if Arelith were an union of sorts, and if we had a representation that thought what is best for us, we might condemn the attempt to take our enthusiasm for the game for granted.

The worst is that people are lining up to defend Beamdog! We are the customers, we're allowed to demand more and better, they are tasked to make their product better.

EDIT: Mind that my criticism is not meant to curb people's enthusiasm or to depreciate the hard work of the DM and Developer teams for making the migration to EE possible. If the change is already underway, I embrace it. However, criticising products sold to us and the way they are being sold to us and demanding better is only a healthy reaction as a customer.

I am excited but also annoyed and can agree to a point. My girlfriend and I both play this game and now were going to have to spend 40 dollars if we both want to continue playing the same game? At least that's what it sounds like. We also live together so it just feels like a waste of money unless we plan to play off the same cd key which means no playing together. :\

I am happy to report, as an aside, that it appears that most, if not all, overrides are compatible.

I believe the problem outlined is two fold, one is that like many posts before have said, is that to continue playing the game they have (after already purchasing it once), they will have to pay 20 buckerinos.

That wouldn't be so bad, if not for the second problem, majority of the EE bonuses are only promises and SoonTM, it is not encouraging. To the average player, they will get nothing, it's the promise of content from both EE and server devs to make use of tools exclusive to server development, some of which could be done with NWNX already.

tldr; It's mandatory payment if you want to keep playing, with promise of updates. With the added bonus of becoming more widely available to other players.

That aside, I try to stay optimistic, and hope this brings new life to NWN as a whole.

Are 32 bit computers compatible?

This "More widely available to other players" thing turns into a "you shan't play here" if else.

Irongron wrote: Now above, Liareth confirmed she received some modest payment, as rightly she should have done. I am bringing this up here though to say one thing I feel very strongly about, for it depresses me that she even had to answer that question. It is not an approriate one to ask, of anyone, be it her or any of my other developers. I know we are all used to getting the benefit of their labour for free, but something has gone badly awry if we think ourselves entitled to that.

I strongly disagree that it's inappropriate. It's absolutely okay to ask if someone was paid for their hard work or if they volunteered it. Saying 'I hope you were paid for that' is a sign of respect for the work done, for it's quality. I have stared at this blurb for ten minutes trying to see it from your angle and I just cannot fathom how it could be considered disrespectful or inappropriate.

RedGiant wrote: (Yes I know this was Obsidian and not Bioware. And Obsidian is at least 0/2 on Bioware sequels, to put it nicely.)

KOTOR 2 > KOTOR
NWN2 OC > NWN OC

Cortex wrote:I believe the problem outlined is two fold, one is that like many posts before have said, is that to continue playing the game they have (after already purchasing it once), they will have to pay 20 buckerinos.

That wouldn't be so bad, if not for the second problem, majority of the EE bonuses are only promises and SoonTM, it is not encouraging. To the average player, they will get nothing, it's the promise of content from both EE and server devs to make use of tools exclusive to server development, some of which could be done with NWNX already.

tldr; It's mandatory payment if you want to keep playing, with promise of updates. With the added bonus of becoming more widely available to other players.

That aside, I try to stay optimistic, and hope this brings new life to NWN as a whole.

I feel like Cortex brought the issue to a point.cjiloveyou

Personally, I'm excited about the possibility to make this noticably old game better, even if not content wise (I'd pay 20 bucks for a proper windowed mode alone tbh).cjcomeback

All these tiny quality of life tweeks might well see NWN arrive in 2017.cjineverwantedtohurtyou


But.

I also remain sceptical about this new version being forced on us, regardless of its quality. Beamdog has a history of "Enhanced Editions" that weren't so enhanced at all. I remember the Baldur's Gate one had nearly as many bugs implemented as fixed (which, granted, might be quite the challenge with how buggy NWN is).

Is there any chance at all that Arelith might switch back to the original version of NWN, if the test phase proves to be a disaster?

While I empathize with arguments made of financial cost, a 20$ pricetag to continue to play Arelith is probably cheaper than every single MMO out there.

Also, can we get clearer examples of what would be possible in the EE? people keep saying we will get more stuff, but like what kind of stuff?

Liareth wrote:- Many bug fixes.
- Many crash fixes. Many of these crashes were encountered on Arelith. That's how we found and fixed them over the last year.
- Many performance improvements. All of the server-side improvements were were all taken from performance data gathered on Arelith. This means that every server in the game will now be as performant as Arelith is. There were some client-side rendering improvements too.
- Shader support. I appreciate that you think the game doesn't look that much better with the new built-in shaders, and I agree with you. The thing is - the project isn't just about adding new stuff (or even primarily about, but that's just my perspective). It's about expanding what the community can do with the tools available. Shader support is a pretty huge feature.
- Expanded scripting library. The changes here add a few new features and move some more great ones from NWNX to the base game, making them more accessible.
- I also snuck in Sticky Combat Modes, which didn't make the patch notes but is in the build.
- Most importantly, revitalised master server support. Honestly, as a player, if the release did this and literally nothing else, I would be hella hyped because it means an influx of new players and new modules to try out.

Here's what could come in the future:

- Literally anything we've never been able to do on Arelith before. For example, here are some of the features that I may work on in the future (disclaimer: this isn't a promise):
- Per-part armour colouring rather than per-model armour colouring. (impossible to do right now without NWNCX)
- VFX position, movement, and scaling. (impsosible to do right now without NWNCX)
- Hak autodownloader?

From earlier in the thread. In the stream, Trent Os..ner? Beamdog/Bioware Founder/Project Lead for NWN originally mentioned they're taking community suggestions seriously on their forums. So, if you want something, like a warlock and favored soul addition, before launch (which is tba) head over there.

The gist I'm getting, though, is that they partially mined Arelith for crashes, bugs, weird issues, whathaveyou, and fixed those with ScholarMidnight/Liareth's help, for starters. There was also mention on the stream of taking some things out of hardcoding so they can be played with, and (though this sounds ambitious to me and I'm already 100% fanboy) putting some of the toolset functionality in the dm client.

The extra tools and functionality don't seem like much now, but look what the NWN community accomplished back when it was roaring, and hell, what NWNx and NWNCX were capable of with and without game dev support. A lot's going to get opened up on the community level, and we might actually get a community that can mess with it back.

Gonna link the forum: https://forums.beamdog.com/categories/n ... ter-nights
because I am pleased as punch we've got a centralized NWN forum again.

This is an excellent opportunity for the Arelithian community to situate itself as the foremost/go-to "DnD/RP" experience in NWN.

Super happy with our Devs leadership on this and taking the plunge! Super stoked about this in general.

And thanks for pointing that out, Numbers.

One Two Three Five wrote:I've been thinking about this a lot, and as someone who picked up NWN back in the early 2000s, there's maybe a comparison that the super-veterans running old toasters have that new folks don't, not to put anyone on blast:

Wall of text I actually read in entirety

This is pretty much my thoughts on this spot on, and is very well conveyed!

LichBait wrote:

One Two Three Five wrote:
Wall of text I actually read in entirety

That is the nicest thing anyone on this server has ever said to me

Increasing the texture resolution would be a good idea, because I can't really tell the difference. Barkskin still looks crap



*no offense to the devs, its ok

This is a game that isn't in need of restoration in the way that BG1 was in need of restoration. I don't understand this release at all.

Actually to be honest, I am surprised this didn't happen sooner, anyone with a shred of common sense and money to invest, would see a 15 year old game still pumping strong and try to rekindle it, be it for the money or the passion of the game. Beamdog actually just cares about the community enough to involve them!

Just visited the head start page and found a 'Get Started' button instead of a 'you need..' banner! Guess they fixed it.
https://www.beamdog.com/products/neverw ... rt-english

JediMindTrix wrote:

Irongron wrote: Now above, Liareth confirmed she received some modest payment, as rightly she should have done. I am bringing this up here though to say one thing I feel very strongly about, for it depresses me that she even had to answer that question. It is not an approriate one to ask, of anyone, be it her or any of my other developers. I know we are all used to getting the benefit of their labour for free, but something has gone badly awry if we think ourselves entitled to that.

I strongly disagree that it's inappropriate. It's absolutely okay to ask if someone was paid for their hard work or if they volunteered it. Saying 'I hope you were paid for that' is a sign of respect for the work done, for it's quality. I have stared at this blurb for ten minutes trying to see it from your angle and I just cannot fathom how it could be considered disrespectful or inappropriate.

RedGiant wrote: (Yes I know this was Obsidian and not Bioware. And Obsidian is at least 0/2 on Bioware sequels, to put it nicely.)

KOTOR 2 > KOTOR
NWN2 OC > NWN OC

Yea you are looking at it wrong.

The comment was not "I hope you were paid for that" ...

The comment was "I demand to know if this person or others have been monetarily compensated for the work put in"

It is the biggest social faux pa that anyone can make.. " hey you have a nice job how much to do you make?" To which the logical reply is... " none of your &@D D@%# business " no one here pays for arelith a services .. not a single one of us has any entitlement to dictate or instruct or question the decisions of the dev team. They are not god or absolute but they are keeping arelith alive when no one else will. Out of sheer desire.

The question was asked from the position of the person wanting to know if any if his 20 is going to the arelith team AND if by being paid by beamdog their comments on the forum are ... how to say this? Tainted? Corrupted? Speaking with purpose because they are getting paid? Leading the community to the edge of the cliff under a guise of "this is good for you!" When really they are representing the company trying to make money..... ( this is not my viewpoint but my interpretation of the motive behind why questions of compensation were made)... ( because evidently it needs to be spelled out)

In other words, it was seriously inappropriate and accusatory. I'm sure any real concern of the aforementioned could have been a PM instead of a blasted shout out in the forums. My dad just retired as a 30+ year engineer from a huge company (not intel) and I still don't get to know what his salary peaked at, averaged, nothing.. it's not my business to know, and It isn't his nature to boast of such things.

Tl;dr it is extremely rude to ask about someone's salary or paycheck. It's even more disrespectful to assume the potential for compensation would influence the quality of ones words.

To make myself very clear here. I appreciate everything scholar midnight and the arelith team have done for us, and I apologize that not every member of this community can see the benefits of this move, or find the value in the inevitable investment we must all make (soon but not today) to continue enjoying arelith.
But it's $20... it's the price of a decent pizza. You guys must find it very hard to buy the new COD or something then hm? Or pay for other games or hobbies? Netflix is going up to 10.99, cancel that for 2 months and ... *points* hey look I found $20 bucks!!!!" ... whoa now we are getting deep! Choose your entertainment! Proceed with intention. If you wanted to continue being apart of this community you will make it happen, I believe in each of you to make the best decision for your own lives, if that is to leave arelith because $20 is just too much. Then I wish you all the luck in the world. And maybe one day your situation will change and you'll find $20 that you can throw at nwn:EE and come see everything that has been done later!!

Think of it this way ..what we all don't know is maybe the current state of arelith isn't sustainable .. those of us who were there saw Mithras step down because of the sink hole of obligation this became for him. He's got family too guys... irongron graciously and heroically stepped up and said "no this server will not go quietly into the night" and took over .. I imagine 2 years of being "that guy" has taken a toll and from what I'm able to deduce.. maybe server costs for irongron is going down because beamdog is picking up the leash? ( pun pun pun) ... if it makes his life easier so he can spend more time with his family, AND arelith remains on the forefront of being developed and updated.. especially with midnight now a apart of the pack, then how is that a bad thing?

What if this move didn't happen? What we don't know is how things might have played out if this doesn't happen.. would arelith still be a thing in 2 more years? Were some people on their last wick ? Slow burning to an eventual overwhelming exhaustion of the flame they once had for developing arelith? I do not know the truth, I have no insider information, I'm simply planting some seeds of thought because everyone seems to be in a "me me me " mode. And no one is considering why this move was decided years ago when it began (as irongron stated ).

My perspective is I think this move just ensured arelith keeps breathing for the next couple decades...and I'm excited for it because the devs are excited for it.

Admiting that one took part in the creation of X or that they're sponsored by X when they speak of X is simple honest practice. Conflict of interest, etc.

Lord.
Anyway, back to discussing the enhanced edition and not witchhunting admins: How long do yall think till Arelith isn't the only EE server? I don't know if anyone else is anywhere close to as early-adoption as we're going to be, after all.

i dont think any server will be ready for switching over in the next six months if they are active, or if they try to reboot old ones would take a year imo.

Arelith is going to be the forefront, and leading the pack for a long time to come. And for those naysayers or grognards is the term used I think, Stop looking at this as oh my god 20 dollars for something i already own.
Look at it like 20 dollars, I payed 60 for the original and then bought diamond again because over the course of time, I had lost my cds.

Not everyone is running a toaster, and for us to think anyone is still running the same machine they had in 2002, especially since you can part together a whole new tower for last years top specs for less than 150.

We play this game for a reason, its not because of cutting edge cool 3d graphics. Its because we love DnD and this is the tabletop in its truest form in a visual medium.
So stop the snarks, have faith in our team, and Liareth( scholar), they have never done us wrong and wouldnt begin now.

Can the EE create new walking mashes, allowing for more "roads maps" and maybe "flying" and such? Or maybe just make some terrain less clumsy to walk arround?

oh and go to Beamdogs NWN forums and put in your wants and desires. Let them know what it is we want them to release from hardcode, or add.
They are listening.

The system requirements are still hilariously low.

You don't have to enable all of the bells and whistles, you can still leave them off.

Required System Memory (MB)
1 Gb
Minimum Graphics
OpenGL 3.0 compatible
Processor Speed (GHz)
1 GHZ

I had a 1GHZ processor computer in 1999-2000 if I remember properly.

For those without the cash to buy it, I'm willing to bet there's probably a few of us willing to drop $5 in a paypal account to buy the game for people who can't.

Oh of course yellena would be the one to say it..

We just got past the bipedal nightmare that was walking everywhere and we now have horses .. and your already demanding flying? Hahahah

Rivace_Silver wrote:Oh of course yellena would be the one to say it..

We just got past the bipedal nightmare that was walking everywhere and we now have horses .. and your already demanding flying? Hahahah

Flying Pegasus rides!

Edit: But seriously. Base NWN walking mashes are crappy and clumsy. Like 40cm tall stone plato you can't walk through... or that other small log... and so on...